Anyone ever pull a gun at practice?

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I guess I initially wrote a tirade about how this would ,no doubt ,become about pro and anti gun.

It's funny how the uninformed will offer an opinion based on what the media tells them,instead of doing due diligance and actually investigating the subject.

And yes...I am actually an expert in the field,having testified in a court of law on hundreds of occasions,on behalf of the NYPD on the subject of firearns and ballistics,having been deemed an expert in the field by the courts,because of training an experience.

Maybe some actual...... factual ,research should be done here,so an informed opinion can be made reguarding the subject.That would encompass......anti.....as well as pro gun stats.

This isn't a one way street...not by a long shot(pun intended),so lets not go off half cocked(pun intended).

If you don't like guns...that's just fine..........but if you do...responsibly......that's fine too.

Steve B
 
Another aspect of gun ownership that I didn't realize until a few years after owning a few of my own was respecting that many people are uncomfortable around guns. I don't subscribe to the "shove it down their throats" style of ownership. I prefer discretion. While I might not understand the fear some people have for guns, I still respect it because if our roles were reversed, I would want my feelings to be respected.

Well said.
In any situation where there is a difference of opinion, mutual respect is key.
 
The argument about guns and the US has no end. I don't think taking away guns will stop violent crime. People will then start killing each other with knives, baseball bats, cars.
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Thats true, but then you can't take out tens of innocent people in a movie theatre or othe r public place with a baseball bat, can you?
 
Thats true, but then you can't take out tens of innocent people in a movie theatre or othe r public place with a baseball bat, can you?

Don't be so negative, OT - you can do *anything* if you try!

Just jump into the middle of a crowd and swing like a whirling dervish ... I'm not saying it would be easy but nothing truly worthwhile in this life comes without effort and sacrifice...
 
Why are we all denied the right to carry machine guns? Criminals have them so why does the interfering government draw the line at semi automatic weapons? The world would be a happier place if everyone walked around with an Uzi on their shoulder - especially undertakers and chiropractors ...

In the US, the demise of fully automatic firearms was the National Firearms Act of 1934. J. Edgar Hoover was the Director of the Bureau of Investigation (which in 1935 became the FBI) and pushed the legislation. In those days, machine gun toting gangsters offered "protection" for small shop owners. If you didn't accept their offer of "protection," your unprotected shop became a statistic. Since it was legal, many shop owners bought their own machine guns to protect themselves from the "protectors."

Gangsters found themselves in a pickle - outgunned and potentially out of work, they went to the only source that could fix the problem: J. Edgar Hoover! Being somewhat of a gangster himself, he spearheaded the NFA of 1934 and VOILA!, the gangsters were back in business!

Today, it's no different. Criminals ignore the laws and put us responsible folks in jeopardy. Government wants to make it so I cannot protect my family and property. Shouldn't I be legally allowed to possess the same firepower as my enemy as long as I don't endanger my neighbor?
 
With our current world problems with overpopulation maybe everyone should be issued with a machine gun?

Weird that so many Americans seem so intent on waging war on each other, pretty well handing world leadership to China on a silver platter.

All great civilisations eventually self destruct ... it's a damn shame but you guys have to destroy yourselves in your own way. Try not to take us Aussies down with you if you can help it ...
 
Just remembered this incident from the other night. While sharing the kit with the stickers on it, during a song I noticed a red dot on the floor, looked up and the singer from the other band had a pistol out with a laser sight on it. He pointed it at the floor halfway between me and him, finger off the trigger, just making a point in conversation to the drummer next to him. I was a little uneasy. We are friends so I feel there was no danger but I didn't really know how to react to it. I thought it was a stupid thing to do, they were dinking and you just never know. everyone else had a laugh about it but it wasn't the place.

So what kinda stickers were on the kit? Were they like, gun stickers?
 
Shouldn't I be legally allowed to possess the same firepower as my enemy as long as I don't endanger my neighbor?

Absouletly you should. Then your deranged son or daughter can gain access to it and take out school children.

That's only fair, right? I mean, that particular owner had "rights" to defend her home with military style weapons.....and was "responsible" in exercising those rights......stored her military style 30 round clip asault weapon responsibly, so that she was never gonna endanger her neighbour. The fact that no-one stopped to consider the proximity of the weapon to an idiot son, is rather an annoying oversight though.

Still, as long as someone's legal right to live doesn't infringe on your legal right to wave assault weapons around, I think it's alright too.


*For the record, I am not "anti gun". I am just pro common sense and as such would like to throw a different persepective on your argument. I know it's impossible to account for all the "what if's".......but nonetheless, they've gotta be worth at least some consideration and discussion, no?*



Weird that so many Americans seem so intent on waging war on each other, pretty well handing world leadership to China on a silver platter.

As an outsider looking in, it's bloody hilarious G. Talk about missing the forrest for the trees.

Try not to take us Aussies down with you

Actually then again, maybe it's not so funny after all. We're treading an all too familiar path here too.
 
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That's only fair, right? I mean, that particular owner had "rights" to defend her home with military style weapons.....and was "responsible" in exercising those rights......stored her military style 30 round clip asault weapon responsibly, so that she was never gonna endanger her neighbour. The fact that no-one stopped to consider the proximity of the weapon to an idiot son, is rather an annoying oversight though.

Still, as long as someone's legal right to live doesn't infringe on your legal right to wave assault weapons around, I think it's alright too.


*For the record, I am not "anti gun". I am just pro common sense and as such would like to throw a different persepective on your argument. I know it's impossible to account for all the "what if's".......but nonetheless, they've gotta be worth at least some consideration and discussion, no?*

...
That man's mother is retarded. So - like I said:

#1 Gun
#2 Person with mental condition (in this case 2 - man with problems, mom in denial, doesn't recognize symptoms, and doesn't act accordingly)
#3 Soft target - school grounds don't allow guns.

Interesting, though (not responding specifically), I've used guns for a major portion of my adult life in my prior profession, I've had guns since I was 19, I've had 5 children living at my house, oldest 3 are gone - none of my kids killed anyone with them (to my knowledge).

How on Earth is this possible? Why haven't they killed hundreds of people? Some of my kids could even teach some here what sight picture is, and how to squeeeeeeze the trigger, not pull.
 
My guardian angel protects me. I have nothing to fear but fear itself. Now if the lights go out and there is mass hysteria, I'll have to brush up on my whittling and slingshot skills.
 
I know it's impossible to account for all the "what if's".......but nonetheless, they've gotta be worth at least some consideration and discussion, no?*

Ya got me there PFOG. The "what-if's" are the devil in the details. But I can only speak for "what I've experienced."

My kids (3 boys) are all grown and ready to commit atrocities of their own. I can't defend their actions, but if I've a gun, I may be able to stop them!?!

I really wish that firearms weren't necessary, but I firmly believe that only I can account for my own future. I don't think that my government can provide my health care, provide for my retirement or secure my personal protection. The government has no idea how I want to live my elder-years and can only be re-active (not pro-active) in making my household safe.

That being said, only I can ensure my (and my family's) ultimate future - to the best of my ability.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, and apologize in advance for any misconceptions of my type-written word. It'd be best if we could discuss my point of view face-to-face over a beer, but this will have to do for now. In short, I'd like to retain responsibility over as many facets of my life as possible - so that when, at the end of my life, I won't have cause to question culpability.
 
I'm surrounding my house with land-mines, motion detectors, flame-throwers, and laser sighted bazookas. My daughter will be safe then from all of the sickos here in New Jersey.
 
With our current world problems with overpopulation maybe everyone should be issued with a machine gun?

Weird that so many Americans seem so intent on waging war on each other, pretty well handing world leadership to China on a silver platter.

All great civilisations eventually self destruct ... it's a damn shame but you guys have to destroy yourselves in your own way. Try not to take us Aussies down with you if you can help it ...

Over-population and gun ownership are both different concerns, though one is sure to fix the other. You pick!!! I'm not qualified... I've carried a machine gun off-and-on for 15 years and haven't killed a soul. Yet.

US citizens waging war amongst themselves? We did that back in the 1860's and the North won. Now-a-days, civil war in the States is mostly just drug dealers.

World leadership to China? The US government sold that title back in the Clinton era and it's only getting worse with our current national debt. I'm not too happy about it either. Personal responsibility extends from individuals to countries too, I think.

Gun ownership doesn't necessarily equal self destruction. I've got 54 years of experience, though tomorrow is another day. In 2011, Australia was 4th from the top of the list of US foreign military sales dollars - might want to contact your elected officials! If it was up to me, there wouldn't be foreign military sales, but I'm just a citizen, so what do I know.

I love ya, Grea. I really wish we could continue this debate over a beer. Doubtful there would be any converts, but at least you'd better understand my point of view, and vice-versa, too! I'm sure you'd agree that most gun advocates aren't complete homicidal idiots - though I'll agree there are some exceptions. In the USA, it's estimated that the gun ownership rate is 89 per 100 souls with about 31,000 annual firearm related fatalities. That's a rate of about 0.01%. Automobile owners in the US, as a group, can't claim that level of safety.

I'm not trying to poo-poo the loss of a single soul - even one fatality is too many, but if you want to compare apples to apples...

Enjoy your vacation in the Motherland - give my best to the DW sisters and brothers!

John
 
I'm surrounding my house with land-mines, motion detectors, flame-throwers, and laser sighted bazookas. My daughter will be safe then from all of the sickos here in New Jersey.

And the post-man/woman, too!

Sorry, Jeff - couldn't help it. I advocate a high level of personal responsibility - with that also goes a high level of personal protection. Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." I guess that makes me a Libertarian, though I'm not one for labels.

While I don't think there's a bogeyman behind every tree, I should be prepared to defend myself against the worst typical threat to me and my home. Not to denigrate the local police force, but in most cases, they can only respond after a crime is committed.

You buy health insurance in case of a medical catastrophe, homeowner's insurance in case of a total dwelling loss, auto insurance against a vehicle loss, etc. Why are gun owners vilified for being pro-active? I'd posit the theory that teen-agers behind the wheel of a car are many times more likely to take a life than the average US gun owner. Yet, we call it a right of passage and willingly hand over the car keys.

Remember that a firearm is a tool - no more or no less. It's only dangerous when in the wrong hands. But so are hammers, screwdrivers, ball-bats, pressure cookers, fertilizer, etc. The world really is a safe place - the folks with no respect for human life are and always will be the exception to the rule. Until we can fix them, I'd rather not rely on someone else for my own protection.
 
We're talking about guns that were designed to kill people. It's not a side effect of their use, it's a direct consequence. It's what they do. Sure, people die in car crashes, but you'll never hear somebody saying "Only take the car out if you're prepared to kill somebody with it". On top of that, Bloomber estimates that gun deaths will outnumber car crash deaths by 2015. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html in case anyone cares)

Over in the health care discussion we have people seeing conspiracy theories behind vaccinations, big pharma and your local GP. And yet nobody sees anything odd in the NRA being a vocal opponent of gun control*...when the NRA seems to be funded (according to a quick bit of google) to the tune of 50% of its revenue.

* Gun control. Not disarmament. Just some crazy ideas, like limiting access to assault rifles, background checks and just trying to make sure that guns aren't sold to people who shouldn't have guns.
 
I'm surrounding my house with land-mines, motion detectors, flame-throwers, and laser sighted bazookas. My daughter will be safe then from all of the sickos here in New Jersey.

Yeah, yeah sure we all know it's really about the Guru's :). Speaking of which are you planning on doing any reviews Jeff?
 
Absouletly you should. Then your deranged son or daughter can gain access to it and take out school children.

That's only fair, right? I mean, that particular owner had "rights" to defend her home with military style weapons.....and was "responsible" in exercising those rights......stored her military style 30 round clip asault weapon responsibly, so that she was never gonna endanger her neighbour. The fact that no-one stopped to consider the proximity of the weapon to an idiot son, is rather an annoying oversight though.

Still, as long as someone's legal right to live doesn't infringe on your legal right to wave assault weapons around, I think it's alright too.


*For the record, I am not "anti gun". I am just pro common sense and as such would like to throw a different persepective on your argument. I know it's impossible to account for all the "what if's".......but nonetheless, they've gotta be worth at least some consideration and discussion, no?*

Deranged son or daughter - yeah, it's possible. I'd like to think that if I did my job well, my posterity wouldn't be a problem for their peers/neighbors. But, my 46 year-old little brother offed himself with a handgun, so tell that to my Dad. Yeah, ya got me there - there's no explaining insanity - but sadly, there's no legislation that can fix it either. I can only rely on me to provide for my future (certainly not the government) and I can only rely on me to protect my home and household.

The Sandy Hook killer's mom apparently didn't control her firearm or her insane son. I wish it were different. If a firearm wasn't available, would he have used a car? A bomb? In the USA, the largest loss of life from terrorist action is the New York Twin Tower/airplane incident. Next worse loss of life prior to that, was the bombing of the Murrah Building in Oklahoma by Timothy McVeigh in 1995. Prior to that was the bombing of a school in Bath, Michigan in 1927. RESPONSIBLE firearm owners aren't the problem.

Rights to defend my home? If I was your neighbor, and you could trust me with a knife, would you not trust me with a pistol? If you could trust me with a pistol, would you not trust me with an assault rifle? If you would trust me with an assault rifle, would you not trust me with a machine gun? If you'd trust me with a machine gun, would you not trust me with a fougasse? What about a nuke? Honestly, there has to be limit. I'd like to think that if my choice of personal protection didn't encroach on your safety (or maybe enhanced it!) you'd not quibble.

I'm sure most folks, like you, aren't "anti-gun" and I appreciate that - that's why intelligent dialog can only make things better for all of us. If you were my neighbor, would it be OK if I had a dog? How about a dog that barks a lot? Or a pit bull terrier? Maybe we should meet at the fence and talk about it!

Off to bed for now, John
 
Smoke, Clinton left office with the US enjoying a record surplus. GWB left office with the largest debt ever seen in history. I fail to see how you lost your power during the Clinton era.

No, you guys are definitely at war with yourselves and not only destroying your nation's proud legacy with mindless hatred and violence against each other but making your allies vulnerable as well.

Bloody tragic to watch the nation that gifted us jazz and rock n roll drag itself down the gurgler with blind self destructiveness. I can't say I'm pleased that you guys are dying to the tune of 30000 a year thanks to your sick relationship with guns. Nor that we are so influenced by your nation's sad illness.
 
Ya, well Grea, America is a super power and power leads to corruption. Corruption like starting a war by misleading the American public. Let me just say that my heart goes out to these soldiers that have to do the dirty work, but I have never supported these wars or that BS Clinton pulled in Croatia. I have never voted Republican ever in any election. So, ya, I will fight these Republican d*bags every step of the way. For the record, I am not a Democrat either. The only Democratic presidential candidate I ever voted for was Kerry in '04, and that was in a desperate attempt to get Bush out of there. I didn't vote for Obama either. I quit voting. There is no choice anymore...obviously. Just a bunch of baboons. We, as a nation, are getting dumber too, and too many dumb people own guns. End of story.
 
Rest assured, Bon, Aussies ain't getting any smarter either!

Seems that the young uns are pretty bright but the oldies are getting dumber in their fears and desperate conservatism, hoping to somehow wind back the clock to a time when they felt comfortable.

As for the vote, the corporations that rule the world (including munitions companies) still allow politicians to play with some social policy to give the sweet illusion of democracy, as long as it doesn't interfere with their profits.

We can debate till the cows come home but these powerbrokers will make all the decisions and brainwash the little people with their media lies and propaganda. And we don't even realise how our minds are twisted by them. After retiring I did some serious thinking and was astonished at some of the superstitions I never questioned. No doubt there's more things I've taken for granted still to be uncovered ...
 
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