Neil Peart

the skin man said:
Drummers like Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Adam Nussbaum, Chad Wackerman and Jack DeJohnette completely and totally blow Neil Peart away. It doesn't matter if they're not rock drummers and he is. Neil Peart has to be one of the most overrated drummers of all time. I'd bet at least one in five drummers that graduates from the Berklee of music every year can do everything that Neil Peart can do including the odd time. The only difference is he's in huge band that's been huge for a long time and they're not.

Very intelligent post on your part and I'm quite sure all of those guys feel the same way, actually they all sit around saying how the blow Neil Peart away! I am a huge RUSH fan anything they have ever done I have it on tape, cd, video or dvd. At one time I thought he was by far the best drummer to ever been born but as I got older and more involved in drumming I realized that yes there were more technically skilled drummers, but I never ever tried to discount what he meant to drummers world wide and to rock musicians in general. Neil's influence is huge and maybe not from a technical standpoint, but he made a lot of guys pick up sticks and want to play and probably made others stop playing. He is probably just as well known as Buddy Rich is, to people who are not musicians. Meaning when people used to say who is the best drummer ever, they would answer "that guy who plays for that band RUSH, who has the lead singer with the irritating voice!"...LOL

And also RUSH is huge for a reason and he is huge part of that, they would not be RUSH with any of the guys you mentioned before him, because they would not have played the songs the way he did. Before you go discredit his playing, a lot of pro drummers became pro's because of his influence. He isn't overrated, he never went to drum magazines begging to be chosen best rock drummer in the years he was. And don't confuse being influential with being the best all it means is, he inspired guys to play and maybe not exactly his style but he made them want to play drums. I know for me personally after I heard Exit Stage Left, it made me take drumming more seriously than I ever had before. I'm not saying his drum solo on YYZ was ever the best solo, but it is by far the most popular.

One more thing any Berklee drummers think that their playing will ever be on 21-24 platinum selling albums, 2 instructional dvd's, at least 4 concert videos, thousands of live shows and be one of the most influential drummers of all time, since you can do anything he can?...LOL.

Also since you say Berklee drummers can do anything he can, the biggest question is CAN YOU DO 50% of what he can??
 
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Bernhard said:
Fact is, that the Neil Peart Page is the most visited gallery-page at Drummerworld every month for six years now.

Bernhard

I wonder how many monthly hits all those great Berklee graduates have on their web sites
 
Neil's influence is huge and maybe not from a technical standpoint, but he made a lot of guys pick up sticks and want to play and probably made others stop playing.

But that's different. How much he inspired other people to play and how well known he is are not the same things as how much ability he has. Those are two different ways of looking at a drummer.


And also RUSH is huge for a reason and he is huge part of that, they would not be RUSH with any of the guys you mentioned before him, because they would not have played the songs the way he did.

I'm not saying he doesn't do stuff that other rock drummers don't do, because obviously he does far more than the average rock drummer and obviously he is creative in a way that makes a lot of musical sense. But I think Dave Weckl is a far better rock drummer than Neil Peart from what I've seen. If we could go back in time and stick Dave Weckl in Rush would the drumming have been as good? Who knows? But that's a very hypothetical question.


Before you go discredit his playing, a lot of pro drummers became pro's because of his influence. He isn't overrated, he never went to drum magazines begging to be chosen best rock drummer in the years he was.

He is overrated because everyone says he has more ability than everyone else, which is not true. His real claim to fame is his fame itself.


One more thing any Berklee drummers think that their playing will ever be on 21-24 platinum selling albums, 2 instructional dvd's, at least 4 concert videos, thousands of live shows and be one of the most influential drummers of all time, since you can do anything he can?...LOL.

That's because he is more well known than them, not because he has more ability. And is it really that many Rush albums? I have a bunch of them, but I don't remember there being quite that many.


Also since you say Berklee drummers can do anything he can, the biggest question is CAN YOU DO 50% of what he can?

No, I can't even come close to playing the way Neil Peart does. But I'm being totally honest when I say he is overrated. I've heard so many people say stuff like "Neil Peart is the greatest drummer of all time" and unless they say exactly what they mean by that, I really don't think that's an accurate statement. If anyone were to take an honest look at it, they would have to admit that there are many ways in which other drummers surpass him.
 
Skin Man, you aren't really making any points. Neil Peart is as good as he is, no better and no worse. He is talented and popular. This thread is to talk about him, but you're talking about the fact that you disagree with some people's opinions about him. You think he's "over-rated"? Great, you made your point about your opinion. Move along if you have nothing to add. The purpose of this forum is to talk about drummers, not to just repeat that you don't think one is the best drummer ever. You could go from thread to thread saying that each drummer is over-rated and isn't the best drummer ever. How does that add to any discussion?

By the way, a n00b is someone who is "new" and says silly things that more experienced people wouldn't say.
 
Skin Man, you aren't really making any points. Neil Peart is as good as he is. You think he's "over-rated"? Great, you made your point about your opinion. Move along if you have nothing to add. The purpose of this forum is to talk about drummers, not to just repeat that you don't think one is the best drummer ever. You could go from thread to thread saying that each drummer is over-rated and isn't the best drummer ever. How does that add to any discussion?

And the other 164 posts on this thread have been made by people making points about their opinions. I think the real lesson here is don't say anything that might annoy the Neil Peart fans because they are very dedicated.
 
the skin man said:
Drummers like Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Adam Nussbaum, Chad Wackerman and Jack DeJohnette completely and totally blow Neil Peart away. I'd bet at least one in five drummers that graduates from the Berklee of music every year can do everything that Neil Peart can do including the odd time. The only difference is he's in huge band that's been huge for a long time and they're not.
So what if they all blow him away? does that mean peart isnt very good? Drummers such as weckl and wackerman in most peoples eyes are much better than peart, but that doesnt mean they wud be better rock drummers than peart. I consider gadd to be the best in the world, but that does not mean i think he wud do a better job as a rock drummer. he is definitly over rated but not as much as you think.

*Edit- 1400 posts.
 
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Just like the Krupa's, and Rich's of yesterday influenced and inspired the drummers of today. The Ringo's, Peart's, and Bonham's will do the same for the drummers of tomorrow.

As for Geddy Lee's voice being irratating, I have some Patsy Cline on the turntable so you can fall to pieces. Hmm I think I some have Slim Whitman as well provided it won't cause your head to explode.. :D

But all kidding aside whoever is your favorite drummer or band, it all boils down to a matter of personal taste. I enjoy Rush just as much as the next Rush fan, but on the same note I could as well listen to The Beatles, Moby Grape, Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, or The Grateful Dead. I have to admit I'm one of those folks who felt inspired to get serious about playing after viewing the Rush In Rio DVD.
 
the skin man said:
And the other 164 posts on this thread have been made by people making points about their opinions. I think the real lesson here is don't say anything that might annoy the Neil Peart fans because they are very dedicated.
No one said that you couldn't state your opinion. Almost everything here is an opinion. Stating an opinion that differs from the majority is fine, as long as it is done in a mature and appropriate fashion and somehow adds to the discussion. Repeatedly calling someone over-rated just gets old quick.

I think the real lesson here is that when a forum administrator offers advice, you might want to consider taking it.
 
the skin man said:
And the other 164 posts on this thread have been made by people making points about their opinions. I think the real lesson here is don't say anything that might annoy the Neil Peart fans because they are very dedicated.

It doesn't annoy me to say that he is over-rated, I was just stating my opinion on why I think he isn't over-rated. But if you make a statement that saying every 1 out of 5 drummers from Berklee or any music school can do what he does, just sounds like you are discrediting his playing and that any drummer can be just as good, just because they went to music school. My ex-lead guitarist graduated from Berklee Music School and he would be the last to tell you, "that one in five of us guitarist that graduated from here, can play like Joe Satrianni" for example. Those words would never come out of his mouth.

There is one other thing you forget that Neil does, he composes songs, writes just about all the bands lyrics, does just about every piece of percussion himself when playing live while keeping outstanding time. I mean some of his drumming may not be as techinically challenging to a more advanced drummer, but to be able to pull it off live managing that many different aspects is incredible. I have seen RUSH perform at least 22 times live and I have never left there saying "Neil just wasn't on tonight!" I leave their shows still saying "after all these years when I thought he couldn't get any better he does." And remember RUSH is just main job he can play different styles of music check out either one of his Burning For Buddy CD's where all the great drummers play with the Buddy RIch Band. In fact all drummers should have both of those CD's in their collection.

It's like Travis Barker I'm not a big fan and thought he was getting too much hype, but I also like to think of myself as an open minded person, so I listened to more blink 182 stuff and came away saying, I'm still not a blink 182 fan, but I respect his playing much more than I did before. I don't know if he will ever be a Weckl or Smith or Couliatta but I also know that he deserves most of the accolades he gets for his playing.
 
But if you make a statement that saying every 1 out of 5 drummers from Berklee or any music school can do what he does, just sounds like you are discrediting his playing and that any drummer can be just as good, just because they went to music school.

When I say 1 out of 5, that is just a very vague general impression. I'm no expert, and I don't claim to know with any certainty. What I do seem to notice is that jazz drummers routinely do stuff of greater technical virtuosity and these are drummers that aren't even well known among other jazz drummers. I wouldn't be a bit surprized that if some audition were held for a Rush cover band in which the drummer was required to replicate Peart's playing, huge numbers would just nail it cold. And if it were 1 in 5, then 4 times as many wouldn't nail it than would. Maybe one area where people would have a tough time would be the solos. I don't think this URL has been posted on this thread yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfNpAF7wSzU&search=neil+peart

If it was, my mistake. Obviously, there's a bunch of impressive things happening there and I don't think it makes sense to say that being able to do that is just a basic of requirement of being a trained drummer.
 
Ok all you Niel basher's stand back... I have the most respect for that man. Niel as I know him. I come from his home town and have breathed the same air and went to the same high school, my own dad claim's to have gone to school as him. So comming from me as I know it he would spend hours upon hours in the garage making what now seems only other peoples opinion but this man is a real drummer, he feel's and breathes the music he play's to and make's few mistakes, a real born to be drummer, when most of us only dream to play as good or equal, this only happens to few people in life and he made drumming much more interesting to everybody. for this alone he deserves not to be judged. Thanks to Niel, Buddy, and all the greats. we all have somthing to strive for but keep in mind drumming is different for every one of us and learn to appreciate the beauty of the art itself, thanks Niel! for all your inspiration. Hope we can all jam one day soon, peace!
 
dawg said:
that's fine if a drummer can cop all of neil's licks in a rush cover band...they have a pattern set out for them. but neil COMPOSED those parts(and most lyrics, other percussion parts,etc.) himself...that's called creativity,my friend.

SO TRU!
How easy it is to forget that mastering someone's licks is good but does one have the technique and creativity to take a blank sheet and compose and master those parts on their own....

For the life of me I NEVER thought I'd see the day where words like sloppy and over-rated would be used to describe Neal's playing...

Goin to all those concerts back in the day and seeing the effect this man had on the audience is undescribable...The Forum would light up and you would see thousands of people air-drumming the licks of Tom Sawyer and YYZ etc...

Of course his licks can be executed - the bar has been raised....but please remember hes one of the reasons the bar has been raised...
 
Rush is one of those bands that you either love or hate because of the high vocals not because of the drummer. I think everyone would agree that Neil Peart is an amazing musician and has inspired tons of newbies into developing their craft. There are very few in the world today that would disagree with that statement I'm sure.

Being a Rush fan for years and after seeing them live several times I continue to stand in awe as I watch and listen. The same way I do when I watch the Buddy Rich videos on this site. I guess what I'm saying is there are many greats why limit ourselves to picking just one?
 
the skin man said:
Drummers like Dennis Chambers, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Adam Nussbaum, Chad Wackerman and Jack DeJohnette completely and totally blow Neil Peart away. It doesn't matter if they're not rock drummers and he is. Neil Peart has to be one of the most overrated drummers of all time. I'd bet at least one in five drummers that graduates from the Berklee of music every year can do everything that Neil Peart can do including the odd time. The only difference is he's in huge band that's been huge for a long time and they're not.

In what way are you talking about? Speed? Jazz? There are guys, Grant Collins, Bozzio, Thomas Lang and Bobby Rock to name a few that probably have greater four way independence than most of who you mentioned. What does that mean? Do they blow away everyone you mentioned? No. They are all good at what they do.
Neil is my second favorite drummer after Gregg Bissonette. Some like Gregg and some may not be fans. I think in a Jazz setting Gregg has more experience and would be a better candidate in that situation over Neil but I dont like him any less because of it. Neil may not do it for you, but to say he is overrated, you have to remember that drummers wanted to be Neil, just as much as drummers want to be Dennis, Dave and Vinnie.
 
In what way are you talking about?

I'd say just about every aspect of drumming, but maybe Jack DeJohnette and Adam Nussbaum may not be as good when it comes to some aspects of rock. Here's another thing: it might be the case if you took everything that Neil Peart has done and subtract the stuff with odd time, double bass, the solos, and the times when he's really pushing his chops to the limit, then the vast majority of his playing would remain and we would be left with is stuff that we would expect every drummer who has finished music school to be able to do - not something expected of an amazingly talented individual. Of course, that doesn't mean they would have the creativity or overall musical sense to come up with it in the first place. Feel free to jump on me if you think I'm wrong, but I do get the sense that that is probably the case.
 
the skin man said:
I'd say just about every aspect of drumming, but maybe Jack DeJohnette and Adam Nussbaum may not be as good when it comes to some aspects of rock. Here's another thing: it might be the case if you took everything that Neil Peart has done and subtract the stuff with odd time, double bass, the solos, and the times when he's really pushing his chops to the limit, then the vast majority of his playing would remain and we would be left with is stuff that we would expect every drummer who has finished music school to be able to do - not something expected of an amazingly talented individual. Of course, that doesn't mean they would have the creativity or overall musical sense to come up with it in the first place. Feel free to jump on me if you think I'm wrong, but I do get the sense that that is probably the case.[/quote

READ what you just said. You just said in Neils playing he has alot that makes him different than the average drummer. But take it away and he is basic. Thats like saying
take away everything that made Buddy, Buddy and hes just another drummer. That could be true, but why discredit anyone for what makes them, them. With all the drummers out their, if you have to, you should compare rock to rock, jazz to jazz or funk to funk. Just because drummer A is skilled in one or more styles than drummer B does not mean that drummer B is not a good drummer.
 
You just said in Neils playing he has alot that makes him different than the average drummer. But take it away and he is basic.

What I meant was, a huge amount of it is basic, and that is not necessarily true of many other drummers. Less of their playing is basic. But in general, I think you do make a good point given that all sorts of great players often play things that are basic, because that is what the music requires. Obviously it would be silly to say that Buddy Rich was over-rated because at one moment during one tune he was playing something that was common or easy.
 
the skin man said:
What I meant was, a huge amount of it is basic, and that is not necessarily true of many other drummers. Less of their playing is basic. But in general, I think you do make a good point given that all sorts of great players often play things that are basic, because that is what the music requires. Obviously it would be silly to say that Buddy Rich was over-rated because at one moment during one tune he was playing something that was common or easy.[/quo

I guess it depends on what you listen to. It sounds like you think that the more you play in a song, the better you are. Again, just because a drummer plays more than another does not mean he is better. In fact if you put a Neil type player in a Puddle of Mud (for example) type of band it just would not sound right. And vice versa.
So to me that would make him a drummer just not right for the job.
 
It sounds like you think that the more you play in a song, the better you are.

No, in fact, I think that it what makes some drummers really good: they know when to keep things simple or they are able to do something that is different, but still simple. My point is that a huge amount of what Neil Peart does is basic or at least basic for someone who has gone to music school and when he does do stuff that is not basic, it is not something that is totally beyond the reach of large number of other professional drummers. Maybe I shouldn't type this stuff because DogBreath is going to start barking at me again, but my point is not that he is not a great drummer. I think he is a great drummer. But when people place him on some higher plane, write things like "NEIL PEART IS GOD", or say that he is the greatest player in the entire history of the instrument, then they really are distorting the history of the drums and the current state of affairs in drumming. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone said that on this thread: "he is the greatest drummer of all time". But I have heard many people say that and I'm surprized that so many do.
 
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