Is Tama a Bad Company?

That actually is a pretty damn good thread by a guy who builds drums.

As far as the thread topic, I can't tell based on what one builder said. It probably has a lot of truth to it, but other than the hint that one of his designs was used without permission and with some changes, I don't know. Hearing about how big companies purchase smaller ones like Camco just to shut them down sucks though.

For the record, these guys also make Ibanez guitars.
 
My only surprise is how many people here said, "the story was too hard to follow" or "I tried reading the posts got lost." I mean Jesus people, it was written in English (more or less) and spread out over a dozen pages. Its not like you needed a rosetta stone to decipher it.

As for a small company getting the shaft by a large corporation. Welcome to the business world. I am a fan of Tama products and a story about them trying to squash the competition wont change that.
 
There is always going to be people that use other peoples ideas. That is how business works. There are plenty of innovative companies besides Guru and Brady, that make great drums. Making great drums isn't about how many parts are outsourced or not outsourced. Making great drums is about the craftsmanship and quality that goes into the build. Most people(me included) dont want to spend 10-15000 dollars on a drum set. Just about every company out there makes at least one good set. What is good to the person is based on the sound they like, not the scientific process that goes into making the drum, or what the true tonal qualities are. Thats a bunch of bs. Its what it is pleasing to your own ear.
 
Not really a fan of either company so - meh - but I too had a hard time reading that. No, didn't need a Rosetta Stone to decipher it but it was poorly written. Bad spelling, bad grammar and seemed like a lot of embellishment going on. It was still interesting nonetheless.

Yes, corporate espionage , nothing new there.
If Tama decided to sell the Camco name tomorrow - does anyone think it would actually have a successful rebirth? How and why?

Neal
 
What in peoples opinion is the best company that makes its own shells i.e. not keller? Stave and/or ply?

Ludwig,C&C,Vauncraft,Eames and Stone custom just to name a few, all make their own shells.Keller is the most popular.Again,I am not,nor did I ever say ANYTHING,bad about Keller,.It's just that I don't feel they make the best shells.BTW,,,they STILL make some larger size drum shells for DW.

You'd also be hard pressed to find a better stave/segmented thin shell,that what Guru makes.The drums,literally,speak for themselves.

Lastly,I don't think I believe in a best company,or a best drummer,or a best athlete,football player,baseball player....ect.There is no best...in anything.Everybody has their moment in the sun.It's all too subjective a thing,for there to be a best.Especially when it comes to what your ears hear.


Steve B
 
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Man, what's with all of the "I just couldn't bear to read it" responses? Have ya'll been on the internet so long that you have NO attention span left? That's my take away from this thread. For people who pound out 2 and 4 for hours on end, this is surprising. I suppose I don't have to worry about taking flack for this post because it's post number 46, which appears to be far beyond the breaking point for many people...

*ducks and runs for cover* :p
 
Man, what's with all of the "I just couldn't bear to read it" responses? Have ya'll been on the internet so long that you have NO attention span left? That's my take away from this thread. For people who pound out 2 and 4 for hours on end, this is surprising. I suppose I don't have to worry about taking flack for this post because it's post number 46, which appears to be far beyond the breaking point for many people...

*ducks and runs for cover* :p

I read about half the story, I think, and just gave up. The guy's story is crap, his grammar and punctuation is almost non-existent and his writing is completely scatter brained. This isn't an attention span issue; Its a comprehension issue. The story teller doesn't know basic English writing styles. Seriously, get this guy in to an English 101 class so he can understand simple sentence and paragraph structure.

Despite all this, it doesn't sound like the drum builder guy was doing anything innovative. He just knew how to cut a good bearing edge and snare bed. He willingly showed Tama how he does it and Tama said, "Okay, we will do that too." So what? I don't think Tama is a bad company for that.
 
I read about half the story, I think, and just gave up. The guy's story is crap, his grammar and punctuation is almost non-existent and his writing is completely scatter brained. This isn't an attention span issue; Its a comprehension issue. The story teller doesn't know basic English writing styles. Seriously, get this guy in to an English 101 class so he can understand simple sentence and paragraph structure.

Despite all this, it doesn't sound like the drum builder guy was doing anything innovative. He just knew how to cut a good bearing edge and snare bed. He willingly showed Tama how he does it and Tama said, "Okay, we will do that too." So what? I don't think Tama is a bad company for that.

I don't just shut down when talking with somebody who is difficult to understand, due to ESL reasons or simply a heavy accent. If I'm genuinely interested in something, I don't allow the difficulty of comprehension to get in my way, but rather pull up my bootstraps and realize that communication isn't all about what the communicator is communicating or how they are doing it. The listener/reader has just as much responsibility in comprehending the information and sorting it out.

Anyways, speaking of comprehension, the whole point of the story he was conveying. Regarding Tama was the shady practices that Tama was using to get an "in" to inspect his drums and glean production information. They dangled several deals in front of him, and when they got the information they wanted, they rescinded. It may have been his fault for not protecting his information/techniques, but the practices of these particular Tama representatives were pretty slimy, as he portayed them in his story...
 
I'm guessing it was leaning towards corporate espionage but had to stop reading.
 

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I read about half the story, I think, and just gave up. The guy's story is crap, his grammar and punctuation is almost non-existent and his writing is completely scatter brained. This isn't an attention span issue; Its a comprehension issue. The story teller doesn't know basic English writing styles. Seriously, get this guy in to an English 101 class so he can understand simple sentence and paragraph structure.

Despite all this, it doesn't sound like the drum builder guy was doing anything innovative. He just knew how to cut a good bearing edge and snare bed. He willingly showed Tama how he does it and Tama said, "Okay, we will do that too." So what? I don't think Tama is a bad company for that.

that "dude" is the current owner of C&C drums... the scattering nature of the posts is probably done during downtime at his very busy factory
 
I don't just shut down when talking with somebody who is difficult to understand, due to ESL reasons or simply a heavy accent. If I'm genuinely interested in something, I don't allow the difficulty of comprehension to get in my way, but rather pull up my bootstraps and realize that communication isn't all about what the communicator is communicating or how they are doing it. The listener/reader has just as much responsibility in comprehending the information and sorting it out.

You make it sound like we are all required to read the guys story as if we will be tested on it in the future. Considering it was my choice to read the guys story, it was also my choice to stop reading his story. My choice to stop reading was due to all the reasons I posted above. As seen from all the other people who posted before me, I'm not alone in thinking this guys story is incomprehensible as written. It is not my responsibility to comprehend any of this guys story. I don't understand why you think it is, nor do I need any explanation why. You can feel how you feel about it and I will feel how I feel.

The fact is, the guy's story is a complete mess. It makes it far less enjoyable to read than if he were to take some time to put his thoughts together in a rational manner. This is basic English composition that I feel everyone should have knowledge of. You may say that the informal manner of writing on a message board doesn't require one to compose messages ready to be scrutinized by college professors, but I believe its common courtesy to write in an logical and intelligible way in order to get your message across. His story would have carried a greater weight of the wrong doing by Tama if he took a moment to proofread and weed out the extraneous information from it. Instead many people walked away without even listening because the guy cant write well.
 
Don't feel terribly bad for Camco they didn't have the most ethical record themselves. According to the Geo. H. Way History Camco, in a hostile take over took over Geo. H. Way drum company in 1961.

In 1954 Conn decided to get out of the drum business, again leaving Way out of work. George Way solicited investors and formed a corporation named the George Way Drum Company and purchases the factory formerly operated by Conn's Leedy and Ludwig Division located at 225 East Jackson St. in Elkhart. Between 1957 and 1959 Way introduces his famous line of snare drums including the Aristocrat and Spartan model snare drums plus a full ine of toms and bass drums.

Just as this new drum company was beginning to establish a serious market presence, George learned from one of his investors, John Rochon, that there was a movement among the investors to acquire another Elkhart percussion business. Rochon was the owner of Camco, a screw machine company in Chicago which supplied drum hardware to not only the George Way Drum Company but also to Rogers and a number of other drum companies.

To head off the unwanted acquisition, George helped Rochon acquire 51% of the stock of the George Way drum company. Much to his shock and bitter disappointment, Rochon's attitude changed almost immediately as soon as he was "in control". He was rude and condescending, and made it clear he would be taking the company in a fresh direction which would be a relief from the old-fashioned ideas of George Way. Rochon called a board meeting for Saturdday, August 26th 1961 and during the meeting began to list the changes he meant to effect. Way was afraid many of his longtime customers and friends would think he had gone crazy when they heard about the changes and suggested (only half seriously)that if Rochon thought George and Elsie were such hindrances, perhaps they should drop out. Rochon grabbed at the suggestion. It was agreed that George and Elsie would stay for five working days to train a new office girl. The meeting ended, and George and Elsie (in a near state of shock) went home for lunch. While they were at lunch Rochon called another official meeting during which he accepted their "resignations" effective immediately. He then sent a messenger to their home to inform them they need not report back to work.

Soon after that, Rochon changed the name of the company to the Camco drum company, and moved production from Elkhart to Oak Lawn Illinois, where his screw machine business was located.
 
Anyways, speaking of comprehension, the whole point of the story he was conveying. Regarding Tama was the shady practices that Tama was using to get an "in" to inspect his drums and glean production information. They dangled several deals in front of him, and when they got the information they wanted, they rescinded. It may have been his fault for not protecting his information/techniques, but the practices of these particular Tama representatives were pretty slimy, as he portayed them in his story...

Was it shady? Or is it just his perspective?

He admits he did work for them. He admits he was hired to do this and that for them. He admits at the end, they offered to make a deal with him that he declined.

I once knew a graphic artist. He got hired to work for various places to work. Then when said work would use his designs, he would try and turn around and say "you can't do that, that is my creation". He took at least one of them to court, and lost. Because he was paid to do his job. He also sued and lost a few other law suits because in every case he felt he had been wronged, the other side could prove there had been fair compensation.

One time my band hired a photographer with a bit of name to take band photos, and we also each took individual shots of every band member. We each paid the photographer. When I went to make some prints of my photo, the photographer tried to me I couldn't, because it was her art work, and she owned the photo. My reply was baloney, because I PAID for the photography, and she was hired KNOWING we were going to make prints of the pictures and USE them as promo material. I got to make my prints.

Perspective.

How many times have we seen a thread on here where someone says "my ex-band is out there using my beats!" and the answer is, well, you don't own those beats.

Which isn't to say whatever happened was fair, or right, but it's not necessarily wrong just because one person says it is.
 
Man, what's with all of the "I just couldn't bear to read it" responses? Have ya'll been on the internet so long that you have NO attention span left? That's my take away from this thread. For people who pound out 2 and 4 for hours on end, this is surprising. I suppose I don't have to worry about taking flack for this post because it's post number 46, which appears to be far beyond the breaking point for many people...

*ducks and runs for cover* :p

^This right here.

Homeboy didn't write a novel, he made a couple of posts on a message board. Is it grammatically incorrect? Well yeah, it's the internet. And I like most how that's the focus, "hodor it no make sense hodor!" People suck.

On the topic of the story though, psychic bit was odd, but it was all interesting. Bidness is bidness,
 
Man, what's with all of the "I just couldn't bear to read it" responses? Have ya'll been on the internet so long that you have NO attention span left? That's my take away from this thread. For people who pound out 2 and 4 for hours on end, this is surprising. I suppose I don't have to worry about taking flack for this post because it's post number 46, which appears to be far beyond the breaking point for many people...

*ducks and runs for cover* :p

In a nutshell mate, yes. It's not so much a mater of "no" attention span, as a finite amount of time to spend on trivial matters. I was mildly interested, so was initially willing to have a look. When it became clear that I'd have to do a hell of a lot more leg work than I desired just to find a point to it all, it became pretty bloody tiresome, pretty bloody quickly. I guess I'm just old school and have a hard time subscribing to the "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit" adage, that seems to have consumed modern society.

If you've got a point to make.......especially if you want me to take note of it......then stand up and make it. Don't make me wade through post after post of mundane and nonsensical ramblings in order to find it. You can do it. You do it very well. As can the vast majority of posters on this forum. Why can't that bloke?
 
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Man, what's with all of the "I just couldn't bear to read it" responses? Have ya'll been on the internet so long that you have NO attention span left? That's my take away from this thread. For people who pound out 2 and 4 for hours on end, this is surprising. I suppose I don't have to worry about taking flack for this post because it's post number 46, which appears to be far beyond the breaking point for many people...

*ducks and runs for cover* :p

I'm with PFOG on this one. I only have so much time in the day to devote to things I'm interested in. If you want me to pay you any attention, then be clear and concise. I didn't get where I am by wasting other people's time, so I don't expect my time to be wasted by someone else. Anytime somebody talks to me about something 'shady', all of a sudden I'm getting all this unnecessary information in addition to what happened. Can't anyone tell me just what happened without wasting an hour of my life?

If this is the owner of C&C drums, I'm surprised as a business owner, he would communicate in such a way. In fact, it would make me not want to deal with C&C if they can't just flat-out say what happened and how they felt about it. Life is too short on my end.

However, I am willing to watch with rapt interest in these purportedly nude pictures of Jennifer Lawrence (among others), because that's just so....., you know ;)
 
Interesting video, but not because of the C&C/Tama info :)

You have no idea how badly I'd like to show Simon true cohesive tonal integration & delivery :(

Simon's drums always sound spectacular. The guy is a genius when it comes to tuning, and getting great sounds. It would be cool to see him play something different besides Tama, though.
 
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