The future of music

edit This has happened a few times, and I am having problems with my computer so perhaps this is a symptom.

If your rad writers of the 17th and 18th century, you will see a respect and reverence given for drama that you don't see with music until the 19th century.

Well, I can tell you this. You want to use Plato as an example. Plato used the word 'art' to designate language and specifically rhetoric. Plato was the height of civil discourse. I don't think you can use him to justify you're pugnacious attitude of debate. Debate, isn't that what politicians and High School nerds do?

There is no way that you can discuss this issue on your terms. History is not a logical debate. I've studied history pretty thoroughly, and touched its surface. Have you? and if not, why should I be discussing this with you?
 
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As I said, it is generally understood historicism. If you read the way critics talk about drama in the 17th and 18th century, you would see that there was a respect and level of reverancey given it that was not given to music until the nineteenth century, though we see it brewing in the 17th century.
No chance of getting you to address any of the points I made there more specifically? I'm not counting on it, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.
Plato used the word art to designate language and specifically rhetoric. I don't think he used the term in the height of civil discourse,
Those two sentences make no sense, especially in the context of anything that Plato actually wrote. But I guess this is about the best we're going to be able to do.

Maybe if we tried talking about something more "casual" that could work better.
 
Here's my official rant.

The myth that music could be art or artful ruled musicdom for some one hundred years and lead to a movement that came to be called art for art sake, L'art pour l'art. In this movement, musicians came to see the necessity of making money off of their art as a burden to free expression of the art form.

This is implying that anything that involves monetary compensation is not an art, but actual work.

I don't get it when people assume that someone can't enjoy what they do for a living.
 
Maybe if we tried talking about something more "casual" that could work better.
I think you're onto something here :D

I've found that if you don't have graduate level studies in philosophy under your belt, the great pontificator will attempt to browbeat you into submission (or at least insist that you stay the hell out of his way).

Not someone I'd ever take lessons from anyway.

Fast forward 100 years. I have to wonder what music will become. Will there be any humans playing acoustic instruments anymore?
I really think they will. Youngsters with imaginations will always want to get their fingers on the actual things that make music.
 
This is implying that anything that involves monetary compensation is not an art, but actual work.

I don't get it when people assume that someone can't enjoy what they do for a living.


I totally agree. Your statement might actually be the answer to the question. But like on all sites, I've gotten in trouble for stating that too. On the internet, you get in trouble for being too casual and then and for not being casual enough, and all in a matter of two posts.

Actually in the 1930s, during the Great Depression many musicians did try to write music that was 'appealing' yet had artistic merit. Copland and Ellington are a great examples.
 
, I've gotten in trouble for stating that too. On the internet, you get in trouble for being too casual and then and for not being casual enough, and all in a matter of two posts.
Hell, you think that's bad Ken, I get in trouble every time I click on Drummerworld. "She who shall be obeyed" is not impressed that I'm "wasting my time" on such things. "Why do you need to talk about drums when you're already playing them? It's not like you've got anything to learn!" Ha, if only!
 
Fast forward 100 years.
That's easy, 2110.
Will there be any humans playing acoustic instruments anymore?
Well, there's always gonna be a few scientists that are gonna say no. That man will be "extinct" in 100 years. That school of thought has been around for centuries, however, and every new century mark proves that way of thinking wrong.​
Population growth rate. By 2050, modest projections ... somewhere in the neighborhood of 9.4 Billion (currently at 6.8 Billion) ... and by 2110 ... the earths population will be 40 Billion. And since 100 year old acoustic instruments exist already, no reason why they won't keep "existing".​
Musicians are a "funny breed" and quite resistant to change. The trumpet, for example, has been around for over 150 years (the box valve, being patented in 1818). And no one, seems too keen on replacing it, yet.​
Compare that to "military" thinking, 150 years ago, the battle rifle of the day was a musket. Now, it's a select-fire, magazine fed, assault weapon, most likely with a collapsible stock, optical and laser sights, etc.​
I think the "hard part" is gonna be, where, in the metropolitian cityscape, will musicians find places to practice. And with 40 Billion people on the planet, there's gonna be a lot more cityscape. People "now" find it hard to play, with neighbors complaining and all. It ain't gonna get any easier...​
 
I've found that if you don't have graduate level studies in philosophy under your belt, the great pontificator will attempt to browbeat you into submission (or at least insist that you stay the hell out of his way).
I actually do have graduate degrees in philosophy (I have way too many degrees--five in total, so far, all in music and philosophy though). The background that led to that is part of what was creating a problem for me in the discussion, however.
 
Musicians are a "funny breed" and quite resistant to change. The trumpet, for example, has been around for over 150 years (the box valve, being patented in 1818). And no one, seems too keen on replacing it, yet.​
Compare that to "military" thinking, 150 years ago, the battle rifle of the day was a musket. Now, it's a select-fire, magazine fed, assault weapon, most likely with a collapsible stock, optical and laser sights, etc.​
I think the "hard part" is gonna be, where, in the metropolitian cityscape, will musicians find places to practice. And with 40 Billion people on the planet, there's gonna be a lot more cityscape. People "now" find it hard to play, with neighbors complaining and all. It ain't gonna get any easier...​

I agree.

also, music is so much more than just tones because of the human emotion. People will always keep the need to express themselves through something. I have no doubt that people will always keep playing. That's also what gives music it's magic. It's the same as comparing recorded music to live music. You can never record everything you can receive during a live performance. During a live performance there's always something extra. Something like an emotional connection between the artists and you.
I just hope that people won't forget about that.
 
Just to get clear Brew. The reason why I mention my philosophy background is to say, I've read that stuff. I know about the relativity of knowledge, and the difficult of truth, the non-ontology of language. We can talk about that forever. It's going to get nowhere, and no matter how much I know, when I am dead it's all meaningless, as also when I cook myself a hot dog. Mike would like to see you tear me apart with your philosophical acumen. it ain't gonna happen. I am here to discuss, learn and share, and when that stops happening, I'll just move on.
 
I took a couple philosophy courses in college (two to be exact) and learned enough to quickly spot when weak or invalid logic is being used in an argument. I've always had a knack for critical thinking anyway, and am extremely reluctant to lend credence to self-styled historians that regurgitate facts with too much reverence and selective context.
 
Well, dude, I've done the reading. It's easy to be critical; but when you actually write something that demonstrates a knowledge of history and a breadth of having read, as my post does, then it's a different story. You will find that when you do that among others who are capable of the same insight, it is no longer a matter of criticism, but a matter of respect and discussion, whether in agreement of disagreement. That's fundamentally how people learn.

You've never had a positive thing to say about one of my post; but have never said anything that show insight. It's easy be critical and put everything down. It's harder to actually have a message and have to deal with the negativity of others. I mean, we as artists have to deal with that all the time. It's nothing knew.
 
Well, dude, I've done the reading.
It's not about just doing the reading; it's about understanding what you've read, really internalizing it and doing some synthesis. I don't see a lot of that in your posts. But I do see a fair amount of dogmatic malarkey that I feel compelled to challenge. That's just being upfront and honest; I didn't initially set out to make you mad or defensive.

If you think that I'm all negativity and criticism, then you haven't read many of my posts. Now that you mention it, I don't recall a positive word from you following any of my posts.

You've never had a positive thing to say about one of my post
I've been tempted to reply to your posts when I've agreed with them. Maybe I'll work on that.
 
I hereby declare that I have no degree qualifications at all. Zero undergraduate studies. I did a one-year post-grad certificate course in management and they let me do it because of work experience.

I am not only an unlettered swine but also an unschooled drummer. You can't get lower than that ... I aspire to rise to the role of toilet cleaner :)

If there are 40 billion people on the planet in 100 years time, as per the projections, and somehow there is sill space to grow food and there are still a few edible fish in oceans that are unpolluted enough to sustain life, then only the rich will be able to play drums. Even today poor Chinese live in dwellings not much larger than a bed, and most of that is taken up by the bed.

The way we are living is unsustainable without really significant conflict over dwindling resources or disease killing billions of people.
 
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I aspire to rise to the role of toilet cleaner :)

Toilet cleaning drummers of the world .... unite!!!

Even today poor Chinese live in dwellings not much larger than a bed, and most of that is taken up by the bed.
But, on the other hand, there are a lot of Chinese with money. This last year, for the first time, in the history of the world, China auto sales were higher than US auto sales. The Chinese bought more cars ... than anyone else ... in the world. As Mr. Rogers would say .... "can you say globalpowershift(?) ... kiddies ... sure ... I knew you could!"
The way we are living is unsustainable....
And the next 10 years is gonna be a rocky road...
 
(In big boomy hollow voice) Hear ye.... Hear ye...... Let it be known, that in the future, there will be only but two songs....... One shall be "whip it" by DEVO. The other shall be "I Run so far away" by Flock Of Seagulls. The gods have spoken.
 
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