The expensive drum stigma....

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I'm wondering if anyone else has thought about this: in our new world economy, no one is spending money, business owners are afraid to hire new workers because they don't know what they'll have to pay for in taxes, or in health care. You look at ads on tv and lower prices for cars and such is what attracts people to buy them (if they can). In fact, everything people want and need, they're happy to get it for less. They'll even get another brand if it's cheaper and does the same job, so they can save a few bucks!

Then I come over here to read the threads about drums and drumsets, and I get the feeling that any particular drumset can't be worth anything if you didn't spend more than $3500 for it! I mean, really, there are those here who espouse getting things cheaper and that's great, but in order to be the man (or the woman), your drums have to be expensive or custom and come from wood from a 1,000 year-old tree or a log that was sunk for 200 years in the Potomac.

Believe me, I think it's really cool that there are so many choices out there in drum gear to buy. But is it just me or does this image not relate to reality?

I'm guilty of it too, having owned several pro kits throughout my 'career' (if you can call it that). But what I've noticed over my 35 years of playing is that every new drum kit I get, sounds an awful lot like the last one. Or I'm asked to tune it a certain by the client so that it sounds completely different from how I would want it to sound. They certainly don't care who made my drums or what it's made out of - they want what they want and that's all there is to it. To add further insult to injury, I probably got this particular gig because I came in with a lower price to begin with! Meaning that even with my pro level drums that were financed by mortgaging the house is now earning less money for me in order to get it paid off!

So, I've taken a new direction in my music 'career': get cheaper mid-level drums and make them sound great, and make a profit for once. And although I'm new at this new attitude, it's working. I posted some of my playing on YouTube for some of you to see and no one said my cheaper mid-level kit sounds bad, in fact, quite the contrary. Clients who call and ask me to play drums seem to like them, I like to think they like my playing first anyway. And because I didn't have to mortgage the house for them, every dollar earned goes into my bank accounts, where I can actually afford to put new heads on if I have to, or buy new sticks, or own that second 10" pop snare for a different backbeat.

But everyone has their favorites and will explain in great detail why their favorite top-of-the-line drumset absolutely kills all others. And I get this vibe that if I don't get a top-flight kit, then I can't possibly doing professional work - the construction won't hold up...the plies are all wrong....the wood is of unknown maple variety...that snare is made out of steel? Not brass? What are you? Crazy? China? That's just crazy talk!

If it wasn't made in Oxnard CA by hand, or in Indiana, or in Germany, there must be something wrong with it! If there wasn't anything wrong with it, then why was it only $600? That can't be right....

I don't mean to rant, but am I wrong here? I hope so. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this issue. (Maybe I should've put this in 'Off-topic'? But I figure I'm talking about drumming and economy in general.....)
 
Yeah, good on you. If you're a good player, you're going to sound just as good whether you're playing a force 3005 or an SQ2. And not many people who are listening are going to care anyway. Even going lower than a 3005 maybe (I know they're really solid drums, not having a go at the 3005's). And anyway, i've heard loads of drums on songs on the radio that to me sound rubbish, but still manage to be #1 hits. What mid-level kit do you own?
 
Doctors don't drive Chevys. I have never seen an on stage act, or a major band playing, where the drummer had a Percussion Plus drum set. I think there is a fine line between semi-pro and pro drum sets. A lot of it is quality of hardware etc, but I'm sure someone who knows how to tune properly will get even a poor drum set to sound good. We all strive for better things. A $20,000.00 car will get me to B from A as well as an $80,000.00 car. The option package may not be there, but the options don't get us from A to B. A good set of drums can cost 650.00. A great set 3000.00. So it s only a few hundred apart relatively speaking. Doctors don't live in apartments. Of course there are stigmas attached to all things and we buy where we think our wallet can fit as we dream of one day having a bigger wallet. At least I do.
 
Doctors don't drive Chevys. I have never seen an on stage act, or a major band playing, where the drummer had a Percussion Plus drum set. I think there is a fine line between semi-pro and pro drum sets. A lot of it is quality of hardware etc, but I'm sure someone who knows how to tune properly will get even a poor drum set to sound good. We all strive for better things. A $20,000.00 car will get me to B from A as well as an $80,000.00 car. The option package may not be there, but the options don't get us from A to B. A good set of drums can cost 650.00. A great set 3000.00. So it s only a few hundred apart relatively speaking. Doctors don't live in apartments. Of course there are stigmas attached to all things and we buy where we think our wallet can fit as we dream of one day having a bigger wallet. At least I do.

Still, I think if [someone from a rock/pop band] played a mid-priced mid-range kit, no one in the audience would really care.
 
As Nilson said, "He's got a point there". My day job is electronics manufacturing engineering. The robotic equipment used to assemble circuit boards is mainly built in Japan by Matsushita or Fuji Heavy Industries. So it doesn't really matter whether that machine is sitting here in Silicon Valley, or somewhere in Indonesia. Most of the technology problems have been worked out by folks here and are now commonly known world wide. For a few million capital investment, you can set up a factory just about anywhere you can put a building and hire some people to keep the machines fed. Same thing with injection molding or die casting. Same machines. Just find a place where you can put them that's cheap and cheap people to pull the parts out and box them up. That's why all the drum lugs are made in Asia.

When you get to artisan level work, there are those folks everywhere. In some other cultures that is one of the most highly respected occupations.

On a guitar forum I go to, there is a big hue and cry about a new John Mayer signature Stratocaster. The "non-reliced" version is made in Mexico along with most of Fender's mid-line product. "But it's not a real, made in the USA, Fender" folks grumble. To which some clever chap retorted "Would you rather have a Fender made in the USA by Mexicans, or one made in Mexico by Mexicans." Same could be said for DW, who's US factory isn't that far from Fender and probably employs a fair percentage of Hispanic folks who are proud to work with their hands building things.

I've been to factories in China. The folks working there are trying just as hard or harder than American workers to do a good job. Since there is a line outside of folks wanting to improve their lives and perfectly willing to do that job, they better. It's just like the industrial revolution in the US when folks move from southern farms to factories up north.

Now you can't swing a dead cat around any industry nowadays without hitting someone trying to cut costs. Europe, the US, south of the border, or Asia. So things will be built to a price point. But part of building to a price point is manufacturing volume. And you get volume with automation. Which means less variablity. Meaning there's very little difference between machining on a cheap drum from an expensive one. Maybe a bit of hand finishing on the expensive one, but the shells are probably rounder and the edges truer on modern automated drums than on the drums of yore that people fawn over. Supply chains for wood are more efficient and you can now get maple or other higher end woods that are more consistent that you used to be able to get poplar or basswood.

Good heads, attention to set up and tuning, and you have very playable drums without selling a car. Maybe not the cachet, but the 99.5% of the sound.
 
I totally hear ya Bo,

My Encinada maple kit sounds great, recorded well and that Chinese snare kicks; it sounded good enough to record with and so I did just that. If you got it, more power to ya it's nice to have top quality hand made gear. There are plenty of less expensive options that sound just as good and the world will never be the wiser.
 
Good heads, attention to set up and tuning, and you have very playable drums without selling a car. Maybe not the cachet, but the 99.5% of the sound.

Interesting to read the whole post, I think you summed it up pretty well here. I'm not very good at tuning, but even on my AU$550 mapex starter kit (upgraded the snare) I can get a decent sound. Not that I want to be doing professional gigs on it though :p
 
Doctors don't drive Chevys. I have never seen an on stage act, or a major band playing, where the drummer had a Percussion Plus drum set. I think there is a fine line between semi-pro and pro drum sets. A lot of it is quality of hardware etc, but I'm sure someone who knows how to tune properly will get even a poor drum set to sound good. We all strive for better things. A $20,000.00 car will get me to B from A as well as an $80,000.00 car. The option package may not be there, but the options don't get us from A to B. A good set of drums can cost 650.00. A great set 3000.00. So it s only a few hundred apart relatively speaking. Doctors don't live in apartments. Of course there are stigmas attached to all things and we buy where we think our wallet can fit as we dream of one day having a bigger wallet. At least I do.

Yeah, I can understand that too. In fact, to put what you say in perspective, when I got my first drumming job with the Disney Company they provided everything I needed. I just showed up with sticks. They let me tune 'em, but that was about it. In fact, I don't think I ever used my personal drums at all the whole time I played there. So sure, any tool will do, but if it's really important, the people paying the paycheck will pick up everything that's up on that stage!

And no, I'm not saying I would do a major touring gig with a Guitar Center cheapie drumset, I'm just asking, how many of us are doing alot of heavy major touring? If you're not, and you're preparing to one day, then you know who you are. The professionals on this forum probably need not reply to that question since it's assumed that's what they do all the time. But then again, I met Allan Holdsworth in a pawn shop one day pawning one of his guitars....that was weird...
 
Yeah, good on you. If you're a good player, you're going to sound just as good whether you're playing a force 3005 or an SQ2. And not many people who are listening are going to care anyway. Even going lower than a 3005 maybe (I know they're really solid drums, not having a go at the 3005's). And anyway, i've heard loads of drums on songs on the radio that to me sound rubbish, but still manage to be #1 hits. What mid-level kit do you own?

Sorry I didn't mention it, but I just got one of those Sonor Force 3007 kits in white sparkle. And for a mid-level kit, it's great. The original heads didn't even get played, Remo Vintage Emperors went on immediately and that kit totally rocks, and looks good. In fact, the hardware is very close to what they put on the Delites and S-Classix, and from 40 feet away, I don't think anyone could tell. Let alone playing in a smokey bar to a biker gang more interested in the pool playing and the women.

I used to drag around DW Collector's drums, Ludwigs, Gretsch, Yamaha Recording Customs, Tamas....owned a couple of Black Beauties at one point too, and I have a friend that owns that Paiste Alloy snare that I borrowed for a gig once...and although all of that stuff was great and reliable, when I listen to the playback (I try to make some kind of recording of myself to critique), they all sound like drums to me.
 
I think and investment in good microphones and some proper mixing skills might even be more valuable to your sound than upgrading your 2000 dollar kit to a 3500 one.
A couple of months ago, I recorded some songs with my band and I made sure that my kit sounded awesome, but somehow, the snare didn't sound good, even with two mic's recording both upper side and under side.
I didn't occupy myself with the mixing very much (I should have), but I'm sure that you could definitely get a good sound with some proper mic's and skills.
 
If me and Tiger Woods went out to play 18 and Tiger didn't bring his clubs so he picked up the antique hickory shaft p.o.s. clubs that someone left behind, and i had my pretty good set of TaylorMades, i'm pretty sure ol' Tiger would still beat me by 30 or 40 strokes.





Just sayin.
 
Then I come over here to read the threads about drums and drumsets, and I get the feeling that any particular drumset can't be worth anything if you didn't spend more than $3500 for it!
OK, let's work with that price. And if you bought a DW kit 10 years ago, for that kinda cash, that comes out to $350 a year, spent on a top-of-the-line drum set. And a 10 year old DW kit is gonna sound just as good now as it did 10 years ago.


....the man (or the woman), your drums have to be expensive or custom and come from wood from a 1,000 year-old tree or a log that was sunk for 200 years in the Potomac.
I can only think of a handful (or less) of members, on this forum, that own such "exotica", and more power to them. Might not be my-cup-of-tea, really, but I like looking at "eye candy". I drive a 30 year old Ludwig kit. 26, 13, 16, 18. With a 14x14 in the wings, a spare 18x16 I'll be cutting down to 18x12 (Jazzette size). As soon as I score a matching 12x8, then I'll have my second kit (which will match my first). 7 drums, for all occasions. Sure, I could have a DW kit, or a Sonor kit, sitting in my drum room. But those drums wouldn't make me happy. I play what I play .... simply because .... I want to.



But is it just me or does this image not relate to reality?
I kinda think it's just you ... but everyone's got a right to his/her opinion.



..... having owned several pro kits throughout my 'career' (if you can call it that). But what I've noticed over my 35 years of playing is that every new drum kit I get, sounds an awful lot like the last one.
This sounds, to me, like a bad tactic. A pro-level 35 year old kit is still ... a pro-level kit. And vintage. I bought my 1st Ludwig kit in 1979/80. Vistalites. Sold them 25 years later, for way more than I originally paid for them. That gave me the capital to buy 3 completely different "slightly used" pro level kits. And I gigged with all 3 of those.​

When I decided to go "electronic", I sold off my Yamaha Recording Customs. Awesome drums! But they've been making that series for 30+ years, so I figured those would be the easiest to replace, if I ever wanted another set.​
Seems to me ('course I might be wrong, 'cause this is an assumption) that your strategy has been "Buying New", selling off ... "Buying New", selling off. And you lose one third to one half your dollars spent, every time you do that.​
Had you invested in "gently used" pro-level gear, you normally break even, if you have to sell. Imagine, if you bought a "used" set every 5 years .... you'd have seven pro-level kits. Probably enough to fulfill any "clients" request.​
 
I had a local guy make me a nice maple kit from Keller shells about 10 years ago for less than half of what a DW would have cost. Plus, I get the status of having a "custom" kit - which people seem really impressed by. What a joke! If people want to think there's status in my "custom" kit, then that's their little fantasy and who the hell am I to go bursting their bubble? I don't see how my kit is any better than the PDPs or Mapex's but as long as there's a "mid-level" stigma attached to those names, I guess I won't complain!

The other thing I might do is get a really old beat up DW for cheap that's clearly a "working kit" and use that to impress people. Like, "Man, this kit is just magical! You'll never hear another DW sounding quite like this one. I wouldn't trade it for two new DW kits blah blah blah..." and watch their jaws drop as soon as you start playing them -- even if they do sound just like any other DW!

I think it's called "marketing" or "spin", or whatever, and it's all about image anyway, so all is fair game.
 
It's no different than buying a fancy car or wearing expensive clothing. Some people just want what costs more for the sake of having it.

I'll never go dw, but I'm gonna buy a set of Star classics at some point, just to spoil myself.
 
I think there is an unhealthy amount of time obsessing over gear and not enough time spent obsessing on how to improve oneself musically, or how to improve other areas of themselves. A nice kit isn't going to make you play THAT much better.
When the amount of gear threads is outnumbered by the amount of self betterment threads....then we will be closer to the truth. (Not Truth drums you crazy nut!)

Plus any pros usually have an endorsement, right? They don't have to shell out too much dough to keep themselves in top level gear.

I am guilty of owning an expensive drum kit, I spent 6400.00 USD on my exotic veneered DW's and hardshell cases. With cymbals, mics and everything else I bring like 10 grand in equipment to crappy gigs. I'm no pro, but it's the one extravagance that I allow in my life, because playing the drumset is in my DNA. That being said, if I had to gig on my Pearl Session Customs or my Yamaha Stage Customs for the rest of my days, it would not affect my playing whatsoever. There's just not that much measureable difference in the sound. A drum is a drum, there's no magic drums...
The drum itself is a known quantity. The drummer on the other hand can change, grow and improve exponentially over time, and that is where the focus should be, on the drummer not the drum.
 
Bo, there is always a segment of any consumer population that wants the "more expensive" items in any category, cars, electronics, and musical instruments. For me buying a more costly kit (Yamaha Oak Customs) was really about reaching a point in my life where I could finally afford my "dream kit"...grew up with very little money, had several 2nd hand kits that were never very good (although I could get them to sound pretty good), spent most of my adult life focusing money on what out kids needed...finally at age 50 was able to buy a better kit, although still not a "top of the line" kit.

As for tuning, I play a Tama Swingstar (about 10 years old) in church every week which may be one of the best sounding kits I have ever played (the snare is horrible which is why I bring mine). So many factors there, the kit sits on a hollow riser enclosed on all sides, good quality microphones, etc....

So, I agree you definitely can do pretty much everything with a mid level kit...but I don't have a problem with those who can afford high end kits having high end kits...
 
I bought my 2nd kit,A birch absolute kit,because i wanted it,and got it off ebay for a nice price. Sits in my den...Eye candyJust because i wanted a pro kit.But my stage custom kit i drag around every weekend,Played with it last night.Its sitting outside in my truck now in the heat.And you know what.They sound great no complaints from anyone..............Now i have seen some junk...But i think your talking about mid level kits To me they will do the job everytime..........But if you want the pro kits and you got the loot.....Its what its all about..........enjoy!!!!!!
 
If you have the money to buy a high end kit more power to you. Seems we all agree the kit does not make the player. I was on a budget when I went hunting for my current kit. After testing and trying a lot of kits I ended up with DDrum Diatribes. On top of that I did the same with the cymbals. My efforts led me to use Dream cymbals. Swap out the factory heads, add a speed king pedal and man the kit sounds as good and holds up as well as any pro series kit I've ever used and I've used a few. One thing I will admit I did have to upgrade all my cymbal stands, the original stands were flimsy.
 
I have been playing the same Yamaha R.C since 1986. They have never let me down. aside from the normal head changes I even
have the original hardware. My cymbals are from the early 80s and 90s, I bought one this year. I have a DW 5000 Hi hat stand from the early 90s. And Pearl double pedals. My first
generation D.W 5000 double pedal needed to be replaced. In my opinion pro level drums and
hardware are made to stand the test of time. My kit has seen about 1,000 shows ever since
I got them. I would love a set of maple customs, 3800.00 for a shell pack 8,10,12,14,22.
I would rather see my kids go to colledge. If it's not broken don't fix it.
 
From experiance it is not the sound itself that may be inferior but you end up spending a fortune on hardware replacement and heads, hardware because that is where the cost is kept down and it always needs replacing, heads because you need to experiment more often to find the sound and it can take a few purchases. The mid priced drums themselves are of good quality, Chinese maple, Canadian maple or USA it is still maple but they will nickle and dime you down the road .
 
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