Mike mangini's hand technique

drummingman

Gold Member
I was watching the interview from the MD fest from 06 of mike mangini talking about his hand technique. When he is going really fast it looks like he is using all wrists and not fingers. He also looks right tight and not very relaxed. What exactly is he doing with his hand technique?
 
I had a theory about it.
before I saw the time warp video I thoght maby his useing finger tecnique too fast for the camera.
but then I saw time warp.
I think what he does is to move his hands in a way that REALLY bends the sticks and then they wip all over the place.
or that or he figuered out how to play interwoven duble strokes.

mind you, there's a good chance it is all wrist tecnique and he just worked on it alot.
 
It's all wrist. I remember him saying " Any finger motion in my single stroke roll is purely derivative of the wrist motion. The primary mover is the wrist."

He believes in letting the larger muscles take the strain. This is in direct contradiction to commonly held notions about finger technique such as "smaller muscles move faster".

He can do the finger thing, I've seen it up close but he prefers wrist.

The super-fast shake thing he does is another thing. It's all wrist but what he is doing is accessing the "shiver reflex". Frankly, you need to have incredible muscle development in your upper body all the way up to your neck just to do that without strain. If you can make your core "shiver" then you need to learn how to make that shiver travel down your arm.
 
Hey Jeff,

do you know if any of his students can do that? And how do you train it? It must be a very different approach than to any other technique I guess...
 
Hi
A good starting point is the Freestroke. Keep at relax as possible from the shoulder to your fingers. I'm no Mike Mangini(he is amazing)!!!!!....But my approach to the playing for the past 45 years has been let the largest muscles do the job(creates less strain). If an arm stroke can do it great..if I need speed I'll use more wrist. I believe this takes lass energy.
From this approach I can get very strong single stroke rolls on the snare or around the kit.
Right or wrong...I play 90% arm ..10% wrist(note my fingers are in the game but not the primary mover).
I spent many years working with Stone's two books on a pad. Your must not take any energy out of the stick once you put it in motion. Put your hands in moton and let the 32nd notes fly.
Denis
 
This all has me thinking weather i should spend the time getting my finger speed up or if i should just keep working my wrists. Is there a way to get the wrists up to the speed that mike has while staying very relaxed?
 
Hey, I'm now totally confused about this! Arms, wrists, or fingers?

Maybe there isn't a definitive answer to this question. People do have different strengths...while we're all anatomically built to the same design, some people are stronger in certain areas.
 
My thought is that mangini uses an adapted version of the gladstone technique, which works off of the free stroke concept. Gladstone relied more on rebound back his day, but mangini like many top death metal drummers today uses the inertia of highly developed wrist technique (sort of a controlled twisting/twitching motion) to create additional power and consistency on the "free stroke" or "upstroke" to effectively double their speed (from only using downstrokes).

So in the end it is almost all wrist, but the fingers act as the control mechanism to allow the upstroke to have relatively the same power as the initial hit. His fingers are always loose on the stick but you'll notice that they are always in contact with the stick. In the end his fingers are the second half of the fulcrum that creates the one handed roll motion/technique.
 
Yeah, Jeff is on the ball about this stuff. He knows Mangini pretty well so I would take his word on it for sure.

In a way, my technique is similar to Mangini's I believe because a lot of the motion I exert comes solely from the wrist itself and the fingers just provide additional assistance. I also have this shiver motion that Jeff is talking about. I can move my wrist without having anything in my hand - it will literally shiver and it looks very strange for the person watching. (lol)

What I've noticed about my technique is that I spent a lot of time emphasizing the free stroke. For instance, when I was working on my single strokes I wouldn't just tap the pad with my stick and that was it, I would really snap the stick and emphasize the free stroke and it would come bouncing back with such tremendous force and I think that explains why I have this shivering motion.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about then watch this and you'll see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egID8WnPvaI

Tom
 
Yeah, Jeff is on the ball about this stuff. He knows Mangini pretty well so I would take his word on it for sure.

In a way, my technique is similar to Mangini's I believe because a lot of the motion I exert comes solely from the wrist itself and the fingers just provide additional assistance. I also have this shiver motion that Jeff is talking about. I can move my wrist without having anything in my hand - it will literally shiver and it looks very strange for the person watching. (lol)

What I've noticed about my technique is that I spent a lot of time emphasizing the free stroke. For instance, when I was working on my single strokes I wouldn't just tap the pad with my stick and that was it, I would really snap the stick and emphasize the free stroke and it would come bouncing back with such tremendous force and I think that explains why I have this shivering motion.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about then watch this and you'll see what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egID8WnPvaI

Tom

I can get my legs to go very fast by getting them into sort of a muscle twitch, but i can't control it very well or do it very long......could this be similar to what you are referring to when they say 'shiver motion' with the hands? how were you able to harness this energy?
 
I can get my legs to go very fast by getting them into sort of a muscle twitch, but i can't control it very well or do it very long......could this be similar to what you are referring to when they say 'shiver motion' with the hands? how were you able to harness this energy?

Hey Jon,

Well, when I hear that kind of story like "I can do this but for only 3 seconds" it automatically tells me that they haven't actually engaged themselves into a strict practice routine. Anyone can spaz their muscles and do that - even my some of my friends can do that. The shivering motion I do is something I got from practicing the free stroke. That spazzing motion you're referring to is something anyone can do in the frame of 3 seconds. You have to realize in order to play at those speeds, you have to develop a particular technique of some sort, stick with it and practice a lot with it and it has to be every day, like I'm talkin' extreme dedication here. I've had times where I didn't want to practice but I did it anyway because I knew I had to. And you have to practice at slow tempos too - the slower you do it, the faster you get. Remember, the turtle wins the race.
 
Hey Jon,

Well, when I hear that kind of story like "I can do this but for only 3 seconds" it automatically tells me that they haven't actually engaged themselves into a strict practice routine. Anyone can spaz their muscles and do that - even my some of my friends can do that. The shivering motion I do is something I got from practicing the free stroke. That spazzing motion you're referring to is something anyone can do in the frame of 3 seconds. You have to realize in order to play at those speeds, you have to develop a particular technique of some sort, stick with it and practice a lot with it and it has to be every day, like I'm talkin' extreme dedication here. I've had times where I didn't want to practice but I did it anyway because I knew I had to. And you have to practice at slow tempos too - the slower you do it, the faster you get. Remember, the turtle wins the race.

Excellent Tommy.

Strict practice routine? Particular technique? Practice & extreme dedication?
Hmmm... Sounds fishy.. ;-) Tom has great hands and great videos
to illustrate it most importantly.

www.youtube.com/themoellerkiller
 
Hey Jon,

Well, when I hear that kind of story like "I can do this but for only 3 seconds" it automatically tells me that they haven't actually engaged themselves into a strict practice routine. Anyone can spaz their muscles and do that - even my some of my friends can do that. The shivering motion I do is something I got from practicing the free stroke. That spazzing motion you're referring to is something anyone can do in the frame of 3 seconds. You have to realize in order to play at those speeds, you have to develop a particular technique of some sort, stick with it and practice a lot with it and it has to be every day, like I'm talkin' extreme dedication here. I've had times where I didn't want to practice but I did it anyway because I knew I had to. And you have to practice at slow tempos too - the slower you do it, the faster you get. Remember, the turtle wins the race.

Tom has totally nailed it here.

Truth is, Mike used to do his speed runs with his hands high off the pad, with wrist technique. He was able to discover this shiver technique because of the thousands of hours he had put into developing his hands. In his words: He earned it.

I read somewhere that lawyers tend to do better at weightlifting programs than artists because they are accustomed to the discipline of trudging away at the same boring crap for years on end. That is how you have to be to get this level of hand technique. Put in a few thousand hours and you'll be close to what it takes to be like these guys.

Now my chops aren't up to the 1000/minute mark but I'm getting there and I aint stoppin for nuthin'.

As far as how to practice the shiver:

1. Put in a few years on "conventional" technique. If you can't crack 250 BPM at all you aren't there yet.
2. There is no starting slowly with this technique. You also need to learn it first bare hands. Do 60 second "sets". Try 5 seconds of shiver followed by 10 seconds of rest. Don't try to control it. Just try to access it. You need to learn how to make it travel down you arm. Visualize it.
3. If you can do this I'm impressed already. Next try to do it with sticks. Don't worry about how you sound, just try to get the sticks moving.
4. Once u can do that , call Mike because my knowledge of the subject ends here.

Peace
 
Tom has totally nailed it here.

Truth is, Mike used to do his speed runs with his hands high off the pad, with wrist technique. He was able to discover this shiver technique because of the thousands of hours he had put into developing his hands. In his words: He earned it.

I read somewhere that lawyers tend to do better at weightlifting programs than artists because they are accustomed to the discipline of trudging away at the same boring crap for years on end. That is how you have to be to get this level of hand technique. Put in a few thousand hours and you'll be close to what it takes to be like these guys.

Now my chops aren't up to the 1000/minute mark but I'm getting there and I aint stoppin for nuthin'.

As far as how to practice the shiver:

1. Put in a few years on "conventional" technique. If you can't crack 250 BPM at all you aren't there yet.
2. There is no starting slowly with this technique. You also need to learn it first bare hands. Do 60 second "sets". Try 5 seconds of shiver followed by 10 seconds of rest. Don't try to control it. Just try to access it. You need to learn how to make it travel down you arm. Visualize it.
3. If you can do this I'm impressed already. Next try to do it with sticks. Don't worry about how you sound, just try to get the sticks moving.
4. Once u can do that , call Mike because my knowledge of the subject ends here.

Peace

Interesting post Jeff..
That was my point with my last
post with my boy tommy. It is not by accident
that he plays the way he does as with Mike.

P.S. Mike definitely has earned it.
I remember sharing stage for a few years with him,
good stuff. I did prefer when he played high and powerful
though and not just for the score but that is what it was for so.
 
Tom has totally nailed it here.

Truth is, Mike used to do his speed runs with his hands high off the pad, with wrist technique. He was able to discover this shiver technique because of the thousands of hours he had put into developing his hands. In his words: He earned it.

I read somewhere that lawyers tend to do better at weightlifting programs than artists because they are accustomed to the discipline of trudging away at the same boring crap for years on end. That is how you have to be to get this level of hand technique. Put in a few thousand hours and you'll be close to what it takes to be like these guys.

Now my chops aren't up to the 1000/minute mark but I'm getting there and I aint stoppin for nuthin'.

As far as how to practice the shiver:

1. Put in a few years on "conventional" technique. If you can't crack 250 BPM at all you aren't there yet.
2. There is no starting slowly with this technique. You also need to learn it first bare hands. Do 60 second "sets". Try 5 seconds of shiver followed by 10 seconds of rest. Don't try to control it. Just try to access it. You need to learn how to make it travel down you arm. Visualize it.
3. If you can do this I'm impressed already. Next try to do it with sticks. Don't worry about how you sound, just try to get the sticks moving.
4. Once u can do that , call Mike because my knowledge of the subject ends here.

Peace

Is mike all tight when he is doing these things? I ask because i always strive to be as relaxed as possible when playing and to get tight would go in the opposite direction.
 
Is mike all tight when he is doing these things? I ask because i always strive to be as relaxed as possible when playing and to get tight would go in the opposite direction.

Tight muscle can't contract fast. So unless Mike is breaking laws of nature I would assume his fingers and and other parts of the arm besides wrist are all relaxed when he plays. Now if you are talking about WFD competitions, they are breaking their personal limits so there's always going to be some tightness then, but not too much of course.

If I'm wrong, those who know Mike and his technique please correct me.
 
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