Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

The lug casings have fingers on them that grip the inside of the shell. The tension rod provides leverage that hold the casings in place. The tension on the tension rod plays a small roll in securing the lug to the shell.
 
Saw one in my local GC. Only played around with the 12" but it sounded good, and hardware was solid. The spurs looked really cheap, but didn't feel cheap. Only issue I saw was cosmetic damage on EVERY lug hole on the interior of the 12". Splinters and flakes galore.

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. Only issue I saw was cosmetic damage on EVERY lug hole on the interior of the 12". Splinters and flakes galore.

That is a significant issue and is exactly the kind of thing I'd be concerned about with this design. The time it would take to screw in a bolt for each lug would be time well spent vs saving some time and having interior shell damage.
 
The lug casings have fingers on them that grip the inside of the shell. The tension rod provides leverage that hold the casings in place. The tension on the tension rod plays a small roll in securing the lug to the shell.

You're missing my point, let me try again here. I understand the concept and design, I understand the engineering, I understand the physics. I'm talking about real world usage and long term durability. Something that looks good on paper doesn't always work well in the real world (Yamaha's plastic nouveau lugs for instance). Jofizzm's post confirms some of my suspicions but I'd like to see a kit in person.
 
Saw the 20/12/14 set today at a local GC. It's the blue finish. The guy got them down from the shelf and tuned them a little. Several people in the store were curious about them (employees and customers.)

They were a little nicer than I expected. I too am not real into the way those lugs "attach" to the shell and they seem cheesy. But they looked better in person than in pictures.

I hit on them for a very short while and they sounded really nice. Big and warm sounding. I'd definitely consider one if I was in the market. If I see that natural teak version and like it in person, i could probably easily be persuaded to buy it. :)

They were light too. These would be a pretty darn good gigging kit, me thinks.
 

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I dig them but the veneers look nearly identical to what Sonor has done for a while. I guess with drums being around for so long it was going to happen at some point.

I really dig the overall concept though. For that I give kudos to Ludwig for being different!

EDIT:

If Ludwig offers that hardware by itself like they do for the Atlas line then I am really into it. Would make project kits out of old or new shells a snap!
 
You're missing my point, let me try again here. I understand the concept and design, I understand the engineering, I understand the physics. I'm talking about real world usage and long term durability. Something that looks good on paper doesn't always work well in the real world (Yamaha's plastic nouveau lugs for instance). Jofizzm's post confirms some of my suspicions but I'd like to see a kit in person.
No, I didn't miss the point. The lugs will not fail. The design is not flawed. The lugs will perform as intended.
How many of us have had drums where the lug screws have loosened up over years of playing?
When you discovered that they had loosened, and tightened them, was their damage to the screw holes?
NO! There wasn't.
The strength of the drum shell plies held their ground.
The larger holes that are in the Signet drums are even stronger against Keyhole-ing than the small lug holes of the drums that we are used to.

Manny, they do look a great deal like Sonor finishes.
 
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Saw one in my local GC. Only played around with the 12" but it sounded good, and hardware was solid. The spurs looked really cheap, but didn't feel cheap. Only issue I saw was cosmetic damage on EVERY lug hole on the interior of the 12". Splinters and flakes galore.

The kits on display at NAMM all have the same issue.

Really surprised me they would display kits with such an obvious flaw.
 
No, I didn't miss the point. The lugs will not fail. The design is not flawed. The lugs will perform as intended.
How many of us have had drums where the lug screws have loosened up over years of playing?
When you discovered that they had loosened, and tightened them, was their damage to the screw holes?
NO! There wasn't.
The strength of the drum shell plies held their ground.
The larger holes that are in the Signet drums are even stronger against Keyhole-ing than the small lug holes of the drums that we are used to.

Manny, they do look a great deal like Sonor finishes.

How you can sit there and claim "the lugs will not fail" and "the design is not flawed" is beyond me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have zero experience with these drums, correct? Yet you're making blanket statements about their performance and long term integrity/quality. Baseless, unfounded claims. I have my own thoughts about these drums, but I'll reserve judgment until I see them in person. Somehow you seem to know it all already. Sorry, but I'll make up my own mind.
 
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Saw the 20/12/14 set today at a local GC. It's the blue finish. The guy got them down from the shelf and tuned them a little. Several people in the store were curious about them (employees and customers.)

They were a little nicer than I expected. I too am not real into the way those lugs "attach" to the shell and they seem cheesy. But they looked better in person than in pictures.

I hit on them for a very short while and they sounded really nice. Big and warm sounding. I'd definitely consider one if I was in the market. If I see that natural teak version and like it in person, i could probably easily be persuaded to buy it. :)

They were light too. These would be a pretty darn good gigging kit, me thinks.

What are the shells??
 
How you can sit there and claim "the lugs will not fail" and "the design is not flawed" is beyond me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have zero experience with these drums, correct? Yet you're making blanket statements about their performance and long term performance/quality. Baseless, unfounded claims. I have my own thoughts about these drums, but I'll reserve judgment until I see them in person. Somehow you seem to know it all already. Sorry, but I'll make up my own mind.
I have 40 years experience working in the automotive repair field. I have seen many similar designs over the years incorporated within automotive component design. I can't quote you the specific math formulas that support the design. I can only tell you that the concept works based on my personal observation experience. An automotive component that comes to mind is a clutch assembly that uses similar design. It is made from metal but the concept is the same and I am sure that the stresses on clutches are thousands of times greater than the stresses that are placed on drum lugs which operate at ultra low stress levels when compared to automotive transmission parts.
The torque that is applied to drum lugs under normal tuning ranges is only a few inch pounds. Just slightly above finger tight. That is almost no stress at all. Drum tension rod tightenings are wimps in the engineering world. The tension rods on the Signet drums could be tightened until the head membrane is pulled from its rim and there would be no damage to the drum shell.
Ludwig did not use any unproven technology in the design of these drums. They used existing technology and they applied it to a new product.
 
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Eight lug bass drums tune and stay tuned easier. I have both and the 8 lug hardly ever needs adjustment but the 10 lug often does. Not a big deal but if you think about it on a 22 inch drum the 8 lugs need to be drawn just a little tighter and therefor don’t slip as quick. Gretsch uses the same philosophy on the 5 lug toms. It does work.


I have a couple of 20's, a 50's WFL & a 70s Gretsch and they both have 8. They sound fine, some folks just don't like something new.
 
The kit I saw was already assembled, so I didn't see any splintering or wood chips. That outer cosmetic laminate is a bit cheesy looking, but I guess that's one thing that saves money. It almost looks like paper with a design printed on it. I bet it's not much more than that.

someone could probably very easily paint these any color they want or maybe even apply some type of glossy coat over the stock finish.

The lugs have a black insert (plastic) that doesn't show up in a lot of pics. They actually look a little cooler than I thought.
 
Saw one in my local GC. Only played around with the 12" but it sounded good, and hardware was solid. The spurs looked really cheap, but didn't feel cheap.

The spurs are lightweight by today's standards, but plenty sturdy.

Only issue I saw was cosmetic damage on EVERY lug hole on the interior of the 12". Splinters and flakes galore.

I will check the 12" demo tom at NAMM and see if there's anything going on there. The lugs are constantly being removed and re-inserted, and would definitely show wear if it was occurring.

Bermuda
 
The new triad mount for toms and floor toms looks pretty cool. A bit less obtrusive Than the Atlas mount and nice little upgrade for the keystone bracket. My classic Maples came with the Keystone brackets (Ordered them about a year before the Atlas mounts came out) So I couldn't use them on my floors. The new triad mount looks like a winner to me! Bermuda did mention that they have the same hole spacing as the Keystone bracket....
 
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The kits on display at NAMM all have the same issue.

Really surprised me they would display kits with such an obvious flaw.

I will check the 12" demo tom at NAMM and see if there's anything going on there. The lugs are constantly being removed and re-inserted, and would definitely show wear if it was occurring.

Bermuda
Jon, I think the implication is the splintering is from machining of the holes, not the removal & replacement of the lugs. "Breakout" is a very common issue when drilling wood, especially on thin sections & on larger holes. If the drilling operation is performed at speed, the chances of such damage occurring on the hole exit is greatly increased. There are special tools available that minimise such damage, so if it's an issue, I'm sure Ludwig can have that solved fairly quickly. It looks bad, but it's not a major flaw.

On the other hand Ian, I agree. Allowing damaged shells to be displayed at your product launch is very surprising indeed.

On a happier point, I'm glad people are now picking up on the weight/hardware mass advantage these kits seem to offer. I mentioned this early on as a potential benefit, & I believe it will offer character advantages over Ludwig's existing lines. For that reason alone, I'd give these drums some serious consideration at the price.
 
Jon, I think the implication is the splintering is from machining of the holes, not the removal & replacement of the lugs. "Breakout" is a very common issue when drilling wood, especially on thin sections & on larger holes. If the drilling operation is performed at speed, the chances of such damage occurring on the hole exit is greatly increased. There are special tools available that minimise such damage, so if it's an issue, I'm sure Ludwig can have that solved fairly quickly. It looks bad, but it's not a major flaw.





On a happier point, I'm glad people are now picking up on the weight/hardware mass advantage these kits seem to offer. I mentioned this early on as a potential benefit, & I believe it will offer character advantages over Ludwig's existing lines. For that reason alone, I'd give these drums some serious consideration at the price.

some nice coated heads and no one will notice the tearout ( breakout) on the inside of the shells. im liking these more and more, I almost wish I needed another kit. btw, the factory finished interiors of my Ludwig 3ply maples is really crappy up close. no one used to bitch about that did they? give it chance guys
 
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