Vinnie Colaiuta

Re: Vinnie Colauita

And Vinnie also said "you have to play for the song". How many times have we all heard that? Yet when we do play for the song, drummers everywhere jump all over you for not having chops! A drummer can only do so much for a song. If you play and show your chops your over playing, if you lay back and only play what a song needs you have nothing to offer. I don't get it.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

well, although his words may be a bit brash, if one person has EARNED the right to call it as he sees it, its vinnie. vinnie doesnt need to do anything spectacular, he knows his playing speaks for itself, which i believe is his point. also, why should he give up a secret or allow another drummer to cop a lick w/ a five minute lesson when it took him the better part of his lifetime to be able to play the way he does? i know its very tempting to ask players of that caliber how to play this or that but one day the young drummers out there are going to have to learn to do things the old fashion way....sit w/ a record, tape, cd, or video and put in the hours necessary to find out how NOT to play their favourite lick before they figure out how to play it. when jeff watts is asked "what are you playing?" he usually replies w/ a very cryptic "5's and 7's." this, to me, is a respectable answer. he didn't get the opportunity for a short cut, he put in a lot of work to develop his sound and he had to experiment to get there and once you do the same you will see how much his answer truly relates to the way he plays. dont deny yourself the opportunity of learning thru trial and error......remember its not about the end, its about the journey.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

Yes, Vadrum, YES. If everyone thought like this maybe we'd be spared all those "How did you get such a fast foot?" questions. "Because I practised a lot, you idiot, what do you think?!?!"
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

I completely agree with the whole trial and error thing BELIEVE ME I KNOW!!! I have 20 years of trial and error ( mostly error ) under my belt. But then if that is the only way learn things and get a little respect from your peers then why would anyone bother to take lessons? Is that being lazy and un-musical too then? Shouldn't we all help cultivate and educate the up and comming to creative and musical? I'm not saying give them all the answers but whats wrong with a little hint or clue. For someone to say "I'm playing 5's and 7's" well thats great!! Your not laying it all out for them but putting them in the right general direction and chances they will come up with something similar but different. And I hate generalizations that all drummers are lazy and un-musical. Are you?
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

Now yes that falls under lazy and dumb!!!!

Yes, Vadrum, YES. If everyone thought like this maybe we'd be spared all those "How did you get such a fast foot?" questions. "Because I practised a lot, you idiot, what do you think?!?!"
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

I don't think its fair to suggest he's lazy or apathetic in teaching his ways to others - some are better than others in explaining clearly their techniques and approaches. Check out his website - he provides a great and simply laid out approach to implied metric modulation; buy the Unreel Drum book for further insights into his playing. The complexity of his playing, and the apparent fact that he's not a natural born educator means that the majority of drummers probably wouldn't benefit from him imparting his knowledge.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

I think he's probably far too busy recording or touring to devote much time to education. Were I in his position, those would be my highest priorities.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

i think vinnie has contribited enough to drumming education just playing on CDs. if he gives us any more its a bonus.

do you know who Larry Finn is? some do a lot of drummers don't...why? becaise he is a great drum educator without huge vinnie like fame. his strength is transferring ideas as well as drumming. check out his DVDs. how many people really knew tommy igoe before the DVDs? not that many.

j
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

I completely agree with the whole trial and error thing BELIEVE ME I KNOW!!! I have 20 years of trial and error ( mostly error ) under my belt. But then if that is the only way learn things and get a little respect from your peers then why would anyone bother to take lessons? Is that being lazy and un-musical too then? Shouldn't we all help cultivate and educate the up and comming to creative and musical? I'm not saying give them all the answers but whats wrong with a little hint or clue. For someone to say "I'm playing 5's and 7's" well thats great!! Your not laying it all out for them but putting them in the right general direction and chances they will come up with something similar but different. And I hate generalizations that all drummers are lazy and un-musical. Are you?

i wouldnt pay for a lesson w/ vinnie to ask about a lick. id take a lesson w/ vinnie to discuss approaches to practicing or playing, technique, or concepts of playing. further, if i were interested in one of vinnies licks, then i would at least attempt to pay the man for his knowledge. i wouldnt expect him to respond when hes never met me b4 and now suddenly im in his face at the club begging for a peek at his tricks.

see the real issue here is that we have students out there trying to find the secret to having a fast foot or playing like vinnie. or they think that the secret to being successful in music is playing all of the flash. but there are no secrets truthfully. its all laid out for you to play it out. you just need to be able to go out there and figure it out. to me thats the real purpose of a teacher. when youre my student, my goal is to get you to the point where you are able to figure things out for yourself. then you can shape your own sound and take music in your own direction.

to me, it sounds like vinnie is running across folks that he feels are focusing on the wrong thing and he meets folks that dont want to put the time in to figure things out for themselves. if you want to get a handle on one of his licks, skip the lesson and dont talk to him about it, go to the club and get a seat right next to the drums and stay there, watching, every night until the gig is over.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

Yes, Vadrum, YES. If everyone thought like this maybe we'd be spared all those "How did you get such a fast foot?" questions. "Because I practised a lot, you idiot, what do you think?!?!"

I totally agree with you. Vinnie has been practicing real hard. Even now he is saying like "I need to practice paradiddle more!" His play is based on the basics which many of us are practicing as well, just like 26 (or 40) rudiments, Stick Control for the Snare Drummer , 4 -Way Coordination: A Method Book for the Development of Complete Independence on the Drum Set, or Patterns.
And all those are a kind of "scale practice" for drummers. Drummers need to play "music" based on those things. I guess Vinnie wants to talk about music.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

Well, if almost any other drummer had said that, i'd agree, but Vinnie.... The fact that many other drummers and musicians place him on a pedestal, and that he's clearly a very intelligent person anyway I think sometimes contributes to an, at times, aloof image. That said, many major players have the problem of not being able to analyse the chops they come up with, that's the beauty of their improvisational ability.

Anways, I won't be treated to that MD issue over here for a couple of months at least, so i wait in great anticipation.


And there is a difference between a great drummer and a great teacher. Some drummers are both and, sadly, some of the greatest drummers, because of their lack of ability to communicate, will take everything to the grave with them.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

Some drummers are both and, sadly, some of the greatest drummers, because of their lack of ability to communicate, will take everything to the grave with them.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

But what you see and hear is what you get on the multitude of recordings and video footage of the man. There's no unfathomable secret to his playing that he's refusing to share....
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

And a perfect example of this thinking is right at our fingertips. Read the majority of posts in this forum (or any drum forum) and it's all about speed or someone trying to find a short-cut to "improve" their playing.

The people most offended by Vinnie's criticism are those types of drummers.

Sounds like a totally accurate appraisal of the current drum scene. Well said Vinnie.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

Drummers jump all over you for not having chops? They do? I wouldn't. Jeff Porcaro wouldn't. Vinnie certainly won't. An experienced drummer won't do that. What does chops have to do with making music? I find Vinnie's playing on "Fields of Gold" every bit as good (if not better) than the hundreds of solo clips that everyone puts up.

And Vinnie also said "you have to play for the song". How many times have we all heard that? Yet when we do play for the song, drummers everywhere jump all over you for not having chops! A drummer can only do so much for a song. If you play and show your chops your over playing, if you lay back and only play what a song needs you have nothing to offer. I don't get it.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

Bingo. Vinnie isn't hiding a thing. I think 99% of us don't get it and wouldn't get it if he explained it to us.

Given enough time, any of us could master the technical skills required to play what Vinnie plays. There are dozens of drummers that have already mastered this. Probably hundreds. Probably thousands.

It's not about chops. It's about how to use chops. When to do this, when to do that and when NOT. There's also what he brings to the drums that can't be taught or practiced. It was something he was born with. He was born with the ability to be "very visceral and conceptual and wide". That's the ticket right there.

There's no unfathomable secret to his playing that he's refusing to share....
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

And a perfect example of this thinking is right at our fingertips. Read the majority of posts in this forum (or any drum forum) and it's all about speed or someone trying to find a short-cut to "improve" their playing.

The people most offended by Vinnie's criticism are those types of drummers.

Well if you think I'm offended because I'm looking for a short cut your dead wrong! I have been playing for 19 years and I practice everyday for at least 2hrs. I'm not anywhere near as gifted as someone like Vinnie and no I don't consider myself to have all my chops in order. But I happen to think that Vinnie was making a very big generalization when he that statement. Ya sure there are a lot of drummers looking for the easy way (along with guitar, bass, etc, etc, etc) but there are just as many people I'm sure who are passionate about their instrument and music and take the time to learn everything they can. That is what offended me. And there are some absolutely amazing drummers out there right now and Vinnie's comments in MD made me think "Are you living in a hole somewhere?" So who cares if someone wants the "secret" to this or that, let them waste their time trying to find it. So you'll have to excuse me now, I have all day to play my brand new drums.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

The drumming for Megadeath was kinda boring, for metal drumming, but I agree about the Kick the Chair riff...cool.

I saw him on TV with Faith Hill. Perfect Rhythm drumming ;-)

Good morning fellow drummers,

I just wanted to say that Vinnie is an absolute Legend! And also that his drumming on the Megadeth album is excellent aswell! I would never have expected him to do a metal album and it's just blown me away! I'm a huge fan of Frank Zappa & Chick Corea and I'm also a metal fan among other things.

The thing is, metal drumming doesn't have to be fast and complex to sound awesome.

There are many metal bands that play slower, chunkier style music and the drums might be slower but they can sound groovy, powerful, and very cool! (eg. Soulfly, Sevendust)

Vinnie's drumming on "The System Has Failed" is a real treat... to hear a drummer of his quality and capabilities and high level of skill playing hard hitting groovy beats to some fine metal riffs is very cool to say the least and he does it with absolute class and style!

Very cool drumming on a very cool album.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

I just borrowed "The System Has Failed" from my guitar player but haven't listened to it yet. And I completely agree that metal drumming doesn't have to be crazy and fast all the time. Besides a lot of metal drumming falls into what has been discussed in the thread of late. I personally find blast beats and straight 16ths/ 32nd note double bass boring as hell. There is no imagination or color to it.

Sorry wy yung if I seem to be picking on you. Your comment last week or whenever was the latest one regarding chops and I was getting tired of reading about that stuff all the time. Just venting!!! LOL. Anyway I understand what Vinnie was trying to get across after seeing everyone elses interpretation of his article.
 
Re: Vinnie Colauita

I

Sorry wy yung if I seem to be picking on you. Your comment last week or whenever was the latest one regarding chops and I was getting tired of reading about that stuff all the time. Just venting!!! LOL. Anyway I understand what Vinnie was trying to get across after seeing everyone elses interpretation of his article.


Oh no need to be sorry. I tend to agree with you. ;-)
 
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