whats best for metal, soft or hard sat up pedal?

ecpietscheck

Senior Member
hello there guys
this is something ive been wondering or quite a long time and couldnt figure it out myself, so here it goes: whats best for metal, metalcore double bass drum, a soft/smooth set up, or a hard one?
looking forward to your answer! thankyouuu
 
What ever suits YOUR playing style, no one can determine this for you, it's far too personal a setting. Depends on too many factors, which feet technique a drummer uses, how we're seating at the kit, the other settings of the pedal, ie: beater angle, beater height, footboard angle, which type of pedal, what type of drive, chain, direct drive, strap, tuning of the BD, it's almost impossible to give a real positive advice, even if I explained what's suitable for me, there's many chances that it won't suit your approach. :))
 
thankyou for your answer!
then, ill try restating my question: what suits you, metal/metalcore drummers, a soft or hard sat up pedal?
 
Just experiment. Start from a medium spring tension. If you like it and it's working great for you - keep it. Or try another spring tension, in both directions. I learned it was too hard for me to switch to a cranked up tension right away so I did it in several small increments over some time (weeks) and it worked. I returned to a medium tension because I play both singles and doubles on my feet. I felt a high spring tension was better for singles (which also work with any tension, it's personal preference) but for doubles it didn't work so well for me so I'm back at medium spring tension.

What others have said, plus it also depends on the techniques you're using.

EDIT (inspired by shadowlorde's post)
I've modified my dw pedal so it's a bit lower angled than usual - feels good to my feet. Seating position - higher than 90 degrees, and I've been doing this from the start. Just one more way to avoid back problems, and it feels better with the pedals. (Some guys manage to deliver with a low sitting position - I don't envy those.)
 
thankyou for your answer!
then, ill try restating my question: what suits you, metal/metalcore drummers, a soft or hard sat up pedal?

for me its medium tension, beaters back about 45deg from head lowered so about half an inch sticks out of the beater holder... foot board pretty low. heads tuned low .. and most importantly THRONE HEIGHT ( i find this almost effects me more than pedal settings) i sit pretty high

i know a lot of metal heads swear by super thick springs cranked to the max .. never worked for me
 
Whatever works for you.

Furthermore (and I've said this before) find a tension and stick to it for at least two solid weeks. Don't keep adjusting speculatively unless you have a genuine limitation as a result of the tension. Your technique is far more important than the tension of the spring and if you're constantly adjusting the tension through speculation then your technique will not adequately form. For this reason, I would recommended (like Arky) starting in the middle and then working up or down after at least a few weeks. Give yourself time to learn to play the pedal with any new tension setting before you adjust it again or you'll never be comfortable.

Personally I have a medium-low pedal setting but I don't play metal. The tension shouldn't be genre-specific, just what you find most comfortable when your technique has settled.
 
What ever suits YOUR playing style, no one can determine this for you, it's far too personal a setting.

This^^^

What is it with metalheads? Why do you guys all seem to believe a "one size fits all" metality exists in metal when it doesn't with any other player in any other genre?

I'll bet London to a brick that Lombardo doesn't set up the same way as Adler, who doesn't set up the same way as Gene Hoglan, who doesn't set up the same way as Lars, who doesn't set up the same way as Kollias, who doesn't set up the same way as Derek Roddy, who doesn't set up the same way as Vinnie Paul, who doesn't set up the same way as Nicko McBrain, who doesn't set up the same way as...........need I go on?

Find where YOUR pedals are comfortable to YOU and play your drums mate.......that, is truely the "best" set up for metal. ;-)
 
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The eternal wish to learn "secrets" or "how to" do it like the pros - several months ago I could have posted the same question. It's just those awesome players have such skills people are trying to get as closely with anything involved in double bass as possible (including spring tension).

One advice: If you're at a concert, clinic, at NAMM or the Musikmesse Frankfurt and there is a chance to ask pro drummers about their pedal tension - or better: try for yourself if they let you - then do this. But bear in mind those settings work for them. I know a salesperson from a German music store where George Kollias did a clinic last year that the spring tension on George's pedals made it completely impossible for that music store guy to play the pedals. It works for George - but most likely it took him some experimenting to get there, too, and I'm sure he didn't arrive at maximum spring tension right away.
 
I know a salesperson from a German music store where George Kollias did a clinic last year that the spring tension on George's pedals made it completely impossible for that music store guy to play the pedals...

This actually doesn't surprise me, it just prove the point, it's such a personal setting.

My best friend is also a drummer, and since I left my country of origin, we regularly visit each others once or twice a year for a couple of weeks, and we obviously play on each other's kits, and we both have difficulties to adapt to the pedals, even though we use the same feet technique.

You can adapt your playing with different seating heights, different drumsticks, drums set up and cymbals arrangements on someone else drumkit, but 80% of the time, the pedal setting will be useless for another player. :)
 
I have always liked a fairly long throw so the beat has some momentum on the strike. I am sure this has limited my speed. I knew a very fast player but his power was not up to mine, his pedal to me were light and fluffy. But he was way faster than me. I read once that Aldridges beaters often came back and smacked the tops of his feet.
 
This^^^

What is it with metalheads? Why do you guys all seem to believe a "one size fits all" metality exists in metal when it doesn't with any other player in any other genre?

I'll bet London to a brick that Lombardo doesn't set up the same way as Adler, who doesn't set up the same way as Gene Hoglan, who doesn't set up the same way as Lars, who doesn't set up the same way as Kollias, who doesn't set up the same way as Derek Roddy, who doesn't set up the same way as Vinnie Paul, who doesn't set up the same way as Nicko McBrain, who doesn't set up the same way as...........need I go on?

Find where YOUR pedals are comfortable to YOU and play your drums mate.......that, is truely the "best" set up for metal. ;-)


A mighty fine rant! CLAP! CLAP!
 
Well without commenting, I will comment. This is one of those Best threads I told myself I would not comment on this year. find what's best for you and use a little originality and stop trying to copy other drummers. Use your mind.
 
Im a metal head, but I also like to pat myself on the back due to my "drumming out of the box" mentality. I wouldnt be me without me. Know what Im saying? OP, what feels good to you? I started with spring tension just beyond the point of loose, and then adjusted to where it felt the best for ME. Not the dude that plays guitar, and not the drummer that is endorsed by Trick Drums and uses a combo of Dominators and Axis A blackboards.
 
thank you all for your answers, kind enough to read them all

Well without commenting, I will comment. This is one of those Best threads I told myself I would not comment on this year. find what's best for you and use a little originality and stop trying to copy other drummers. Use your mind.

and yes, about that, well as said on my second reply i believe, the main purpose on this thread was just to analyze the tendencies of whether if the metalcore drummers use a hard or soft sat up pedal, since my young brother is too, a drummer... i myself agree with what you said, those personal opinion threads are pointless, notwithstanding, the one whom got the error of writing was me, presumably, since i didnt express quite as i wouldve wanted the main statement.
 
the main purpose on this thread was just to analyze the tendencies of whether if the metalcore drummers use a hard or soft sat up pedal,

I honestly think if you interviewed a 100 of the top drummers of the genre, you'd get 100 different answers. Sure there may be similarities between a few of them, but I'd put that down to coincidence rather than by design......there would still be nuances between "similar" set ups that make them different from one player to another anyway.

Just look at the way they all set up their kits. At first glance many fo them may look identical, but when you start looking at different makes/model of kits, wood used, tom heights, tom angles, throne height, distance between the toms, number of cymbals, height and angle of those cymbals.....they're all gonna be different. I just don't see a pedal set up being any different. A tangible "trend" is gonna be hard to identify.
 
metalcore isn't a technical genre, many of the drummers in the "good bands" still have lazy technique, so you'll have people doing everything under the sun

do whatever you want to do man, doesn't matter what other people do!
think for yourself (;))
 
Im a metalhead, and I -apparently like every other stereotypical metalhead- have my pedals cranked super tight :). I like em tight because to me they feel more responsive and less like trying to push the pedal through a tub of butter. I sit lower than most (not by too much) and my bass drum heads are LOOSE. Thats my preference atleast.

On a side note, i think the whole metalheads like tight springs thing comes from people like george kollias. The belief is that the only way to get the pedal to move faster is to increase responsiveness, which you do by tightening your tension. You know, because theres no way you can catch rebound from the pedal :)
But like pocketfullofgold said, people setup way different. George Kollias uses a super light super tight fancy-shmancy axis pedal, Gene Hoglan uses some beat to hell and back again cheap single chain tama camcos. They are both great, both can cruise well over 200, so it really is all technique and personal taste.
 
that's because they both have totally different foot techniques :)
 
Im a metalhead, and I -apparently like every other stereotypical metalhead- have my pedals cranked super tight :). I like em tight because to me they feel more responsive and less like trying to push the pedal through a tub of butter. I sit lower than most (not by too much) and my bass drum heads are LOOSE. Thats my preference atleast.

On a side note, i think the whole metalheads like tight springs thing comes from people like george kollias. The belief is that the only way to get the pedal to move faster is to increase responsiveness, which you do by tightening your tension. You know, because theres no way you can catch rebound from the pedal :)
But like pocketfullofgold said, people setup way different. George Kollias uses a super light super tight fancy-shmancy axis pedal, Gene Hoglan uses some beat to hell and back again cheap single chain tama camcos. They are both great, both can cruise well over 200, so it really is all technique and personal taste.
Hmm... Yes, cranked tension is a stereotype in the metal scene (I'm a metalhead myself, coming from the guitar). BUT if you're going for speed then be aware that cranking up the spring tension does make the pedal more responsive, thus changing only the _feel_ of the pedal (which might be to your personal liking, or may not be to it - the most noticeable difference in feel should appear when playing bursts I think), it won't make you 1 bpm faster, just no - physically it can't make you faster. It's your feet...

Furthermore, do you know that rebounds make playing easier actually? Thus, the key is _learning_ how to use rebound to achieve more speed so abandoning rebounds means... making playing harder. Again this might or might not be to your liking... playing harder. What is wrong with rebounds? The phenomenon of rebound is inherent to the drums, I take this as "natural". Why fight it? Cranked spring tension provides for a good workout but you have to invest more energy to get the same speed... sounds logical? Not really. The increased responsiveness of pedals due to higher spring tension is "good" for a given player if he perceives this as "comfy" for his own style. So IMO the above "belief" is simply wrong.

I think ultimately, you will only know for yourself if you invested some time playing on pedals with low, average and high spring tension, only then will you know for sure. What works for others doesn't necessarily work for you. We have different feet, we even use different motions (to some extend) - in my 16 months of drumming I've noticed that even "heel up" holds a range of different feels, depending on where you place your feet on the footboard, how tight the spring tension is, whether I'm playing barefoot (I did so for the first months), with footwear or switching between barefoot and footwork (which I'm doing recently).

Now imagine that statistically metal drummers prefer a high spring tension but you, having experimented with this for yourself, learn that a medium tension actually works best for you - would you care for statistics or do what feels best to you? Well I've decided to go the "what works best for me" route. If it's really speed you're after, then as I said: Try every spring tension, play to your max and only then will you know for sure which tension gives you the highest speed. You can't know beforehand, simple as that. And nobody knows which spring tension will actually give you the highest speed - you could be surprised. Whether this identified fastest spring tension will result in "butter" or "Kollias" feel... How can we know? I never did such a speed test (relating to the spring tension) because to me the playing feel is paramount. I'm thinking "how can I play to my best if the playing feel (due to the spring tension) feels uncomfy to me?" My logic is finding the best (=most comfy) playing feel because _then_ I'll get the best results - but over time, not instantly, and without sacrificing the playing feel (because others are doing it differently and I'm copying from them but it may not work for me).

PS: On my dw 2002 pedal/medium spring tension I can hit a max speed of 240 bpm/singles. Basically I'm satisfied with the sheer speed, I'm more working on control now. I might need Axis or something superior to hit anything near what Tim Waterson can do - plus maybe 20 years of brutal practice.

Gene is a prime example of what can be done regardless of pedal hype!! Great drummer and person (as far as I can tell). Personally, I'd use different settings on different pedals - if I had several. I have only one double pedal for now, but having several pedals, it would be intriguing to dial in various spring tensions and switch between different playing feels. Try doing doubles with cranked spring tension, it doesn't really work - while it may work (for some) with singles. I'm doing both so knowing that George Kollias uses max spring tension while Tim Waterson uses average or lower spring tension doesn't really help as I have only one (double) pedal around but want to do/practice every foot technique out there.
 
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