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  #41  
Old 11-08-2011, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

No, it's definitely not a shuffle. It's not played in the crack. But I'm pretty sure the kick is playing the 1 a2 a3 a4 a pattern in the original recording. The most important part of the groove IMO is the quarter-note kick, the displaced quarter-note-triplet hi hat and the back beat, anything else is just extra.

I'm no shuffling superstar but I think a shuffle that is not played 'in the crack' (ie strict triplets) sounds awkward and isn't really shuffling at all.

Here are a few drum covers on 'tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVfHvNtTnIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQyhTug8unc

Not a fan of either of those.

Live version (sounds like four on the floor the whole way, could be wrong)
http://youtu.be/AMjzxHzZnnI
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  #42  
Old 11-08-2011, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

Agreed, it's a quick 12/8 straight-time beat. That steady galloping feel is what really defines a shuffle, and the feel of this song isn't quite that.

Bonus question: At one point after you put that shaker in your sock do you just strap a drum to your back, a harmonica to your lips, and cymbals to your elbows and go full-on one man band style? ;]
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  #43  
Old 11-08-2011, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

I can imagine this song changed up a little too in a sorta post-punk fast 4/4 standard beat with really loud, crunchy guitars and angry singing. Then, in the musical parts play a double-time beat. That would be cool. We did this with a Britney Spears song, 'Hit me baby' and it is awesome.
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  #44  
Old 11-08-2011, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

I look at it this way. When you dissect it up a bit, what can you do without? It won't really lose it's feeling on the dance floor if you drop the shaker or even the off hat accents. But it loses all propulsion if you lose the shuffle/ swing created by the bass guitar and bass drum.

So I say shuffle, I says. You need the swing feel from the basses, and you need that Purdy after-tap to make this groove hold the slick traction.

And hit those patently new wave cymbal hits like you're Gary Husband. Hell yeah.

Last edited by Spreggy; 11-08-2011 at 04:16 PM.
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  #45  
Old 11-08-2011, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by Spreggy View Post
I look at it this way. When you dissect it up a bit, what can you do without? It won't really lose it's feeling on the dance floor if you drop the shaker or even the off hat accents. But it loses all propulsion if you lose the shuffle/ swing created by the bass guitar and bass drum.

So I say shuffle, I says. You need the swing feel from the basses, and you need that Purdy after-tap to make this groove hold the slick traction.

And hit those patently new wave cymbal hits like you're Gary Husband. Hell yeah.
yeah! and gary's no slouch. i looked closer and now i see the deal, and how it was played. it's one of the very few times i just took the helm and played a song exactly how i heard it without ever looking at the original. if i had to do the hi-hats like the original, with purdies on the snare, i'd probably start losing the forward motion, and people would be calling it swing by the time i got through with it!
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  #46  
Old 11-08-2011, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post

Does anybody here think this song is a shuffle? It's 1 extra triplet away from being a shuffle if you ask me. So is this a shuffle? 1 vote for no here.
OK, define a shuffle then.

The bass line is playing a shuffle rhythm.

If it's not a shuffle, then how do you define two identical rhythms as shuffle or non-shuffle?
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  #47  
Old 11-08-2011, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by kettles View Post
. But I'm pretty sure the kick is playing the 1 a2 a3 a4 a pattern in the original recording. The most important part of the groove IMO is the quarter-note kick,
Either you totally contradicted yourself, or you said what I've been thinking:

There are two bass drum sounds one the original recording:
One short bass drum sound playing "a1 a2 a3 a4" and a 2nd, deeper bass drum playing "1,2,3,4"

It's pretty clear there is a lot of layers, and much of it by a machine.
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  #48  
Old 11-08-2011, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

my vote is sort of a pre-techno shuffle.

bonus trivia: billy ward and rhythm tech stuck a stick shaker in their left foot and won best in show namm 2010. i never did find out how they mic'd it, but he stuck it right in his tennies and called it amazing.
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  #49  
Old 11-08-2011, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Either you totally contradicted yourself, or you said what I've been thinking:

There are two bass drum sounds one the original recording:
One short bass drum sound playing "a1 a2 a3 a4" and a 2nd, deeper bass drum playing "1,2,3,4"

It's pretty clear there is a lot of layers, and much of it by a machine.
Haha, yes that does sound a bit weird. What I meant was - the groove needs the strong quarter note accent, whether it's from the kick, snare, or kick & snare together. But the 'a's of the triplet can be there as a bonus, if you can do them, great, if you can't, no big deal.


Back to the shuffle thing - To me the word shuffle means that the music is shuffling, it's just the way it feels. Everyone get up off your chairs RIGHT NOW and try dancing (in your living room, office, on the bus if you're on a PDA) to the TFF track. It's quite a different feel from this :)

Simply having the notes in the shuffle position doesn't necessarily mean the music is shuffling. Whether the TFF track is really a shuffle is probably down to the interpretation of the individual and the feel that you take from it.
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  #50  
Old 11-08-2011, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by Spreggy View Post
I look at it this way. When you dissect it up a bit, what can you do without? It won't really lose it's feeling on the dance floor if you drop the shaker or even the off hat accents. But it loses all propulsion if you lose the shuffle/ swing created by the bass guitar and bass drum.

So I say shuffle, I says. You need the swing feel from the basses, and you need that Purdy after-tap to make this groove hold the slick traction.

And hit those patently new wave cymbal hits like you're Gary Husband. Hell yeah.
Great point, I guess it really comes down to which beat is going to work better for the punters and the rest of the band who have been playing this song for years and want it played in a way that they are used to. I doubt the crowd will stop dancing and heckle me for not playing the hi-hat correctly. Though it would be hilarious if that ever did happen!
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  #51  
Old 11-08-2011, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

Wow, what a great thread, any of these suggestions would work, here's my take on it.
I would play it as a shuffle.
Looking at Bo's diagram:
Right hand I would shuffle putting weight on beats 1,2,3 and 4
I would play left hand on the snare where Bo has put the accents on the hats. First of Bo's accents I would play as a ghost note, second with accent for the back beat and third slightly louder than the ghost note, then repeat.
Kick drum following the shuffle but not playing on the back beat.
It may not be the groove on the record but it suits the song quite well.
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  #52  
Old 11-16-2011, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

Just found this, it's awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzWuP...eature=related

Bit of an update, had band practice the other day after a good amount of practicing the song, and they said it's the best they've heard it played. I was stoked with that. It's a great feeling when hours of practice pay off!
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  #53  
Old 11-16-2011, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

It depends. If you don't have no stinking shaker then you don't need ghosts for the triplet feel or you'll overshufflise.

Yep Bo, we did what we had to do in the 80s. Actually, that's what made me quit playing for years - I wasn't as much fun as before.
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  #54  
Old 11-16-2011, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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That was incredible. I am now an Andy McKee fan! Thanks.
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  #55  
Old 11-16-2011, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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it is not true.if every body start to think like that ,then there will be no peace
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  #56  
Old 11-16-2011, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
It depends. If you don't have no stinking shaker then you don't need ghosts for the triplet feel or you'll overshufflise.

Yep Bo, we did what we had to do in the 80s. Actually, that's what made me quit playing for years - I wasn't as much fun as before.
Actually, at the time I had started collecting drum machines and for songs like that I was beginning to program (especially if you were locking to a sequencer anyway). That was fun for that decade ;)
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  #57  
Old 11-16-2011, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by kettles View Post
Just found this, it's awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzWuP...eature=related

Bit of an update, had band practice the other day after a good amount of practicing the song, and they said it's the best they've heard it played. I was stoked with that. It's a great feeling when hours of practice pay off!
haha, that's priceless, here we are trying to figure out just the drum part and this guy plays all the parts at once on his guitar!

And nice one about the band liking your groove, how did you end up playing it?
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  #58  
Old 11-16-2011, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Actually, at the time I had started collecting drum machines and for songs like that I was beginning to program (especially if you were locking to a sequencer anyway). That was fun for that decade ;)
Not sure if it's coincidence or a sign o' the times but I did the same thing. The year I quit the band I bought a TR707, sequencer and a portastudio. I'm in the process of converting old cassettes to digital and finding stuff I'd done that I'd forgotten - it's like going through old photos.
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  #59  
Old 11-16-2011, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by last man to bat View Post
haha, that's priceless, here we are trying to figure out just the drum part and this guy plays all the parts at once on his guitar!

And nice one about the band liking your groove, how did you end up playing it?
hats: + 2 a + 4 a - left hand
snare: 2+4
kick: 1 a2 a3 a4 a
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  #60  
Old 11-17-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kettles View Post
hats: + 2 a + 4 a - left hand
snare: 2+4
kick: 1 a2 a3 a4 a
I think I've got it. Cool groove if I've got it right :)
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  #61  
Old 11-17-2011, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Not sure if it's coincidence or a sign o' the times but I did the same thing. The year I quit the band I bought a TR707, sequencer and a portastudio. I'm in the process of converting old cassettes to digital and finding stuff I'd done that I'd forgotten - it's like going through old photos.
I did that some time ago. I wince when I hear that stuff. I'm so ashamed ;)
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  #62  
Old 11-17-2011, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

I remember we had to play this tune at DrumTech in London when i was a student there in 2001. I played it all left hand lead as it's much better for the open flow of everything.
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  #63  
Old 11-18-2011, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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I did that some time ago. I wince when I hear that stuff. I'm so ashamed ;)
Hehe, I'm sure what you did has more good qualities than you're letting on.

My shame comes from using electronic handclaps on a number of my tunes ... not because it added anything positive to the music (quite the opposite) but because I slavishly followed 80s fashion.

An important lesson for me ... just because something ugly is fashionable doesn't change the fact that it's ugly.
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  #64  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:10 AM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

This song has one of the more wonderful drum grooves ever recorded if you ask me. Everything is like a totally normal 6/8 groove with the right hand on the hats, left hand on the snare--BUT, the hi hat pattern is playing Moeller "whip & flop sets of two with the accents on beats 2, 4, & 6. I love it.
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  #65  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

Here's a solo acoustic guitar version of this song by Andy McKee.

Andy McKee - Everybody Wants to Rule the World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzWuP5hINNo
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  #66  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:55 AM
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Hehe, I'm sure what you did has more good qualities than you're letting on.
I'll email you a couple of .mp3s from that era and you can be the judge.
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  #67  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

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I'll email you a couple of .mp3s from that era and you can be the judge.
Good idea. Looking forward to it (I think haha). Only two days ago I was digitising an old tape and found some music I'd made that I'd forgotten about. Lots of half finished ideas ...
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  #68  
Old 11-18-2011, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Everybody Wants to Rule the World

Program a drum machine & go to the bar for a pint break. That's the closest you'll get to replicating the original ;)

Or, if you really must play the groove, I vote for left hand lead, leaves the right hand for some nice accents to the floor for drama, & introduces a nice offbeat to the chick due to the inevitable stronger right hand (at least, in someone of my lack of skill level).
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  #69  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:42 PM
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Good idea. Looking forward to it (I think haha). Only two days ago I was digitising an old tape and found some music I'd made that I'd forgotten about. Lots of half finished ideas ...
And to think I was single-minded enough that I actually completed my ideas. Shameful....
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:52 PM
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And to think I was single-minded enough that I actually completed my ideas. Shameful....
lol ... now you've whetted my appetite. Looking forward to the emailed MP3 :)
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