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Old 04-28-2010, 07:08 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default The ultimate octopus?

Sorry about the 'creative' thread title.



After 8 months of work and practice,I have won a bit a personal battle. Which was to improve my hi hat foot ( right foot/I'm lefty ). Better independence, dynamics, It has opened up a whole new world on the kit for me. I am so proud of myself.
My next challenge is to try and get my right hand ( your left, if you are righty.. ) to imitate Buddy's left ( yea, right ) i.e be capable of playing anything..

( which, by the way, I think you can do if you can play fast continuous triplets.. ) Homework for 2010.

If I can do that, then in the words of Jim Carey, I'll be the new King of Babylon!

All limbs are interchangeable- Buddy, Mike Mangini, Donati, Aydee ( ! ) come to mind...

Question is, do you tech guys think its important to pursue this goal? Is it a stupid, anal thing to pursue? It does brings alive the drumset in a way that it never did earlier, for me and thats the attraction for me right now.

But then Tony Williams said he wanted his left hand to sound like his left and not his right because together they did what they did.

Happy to hear any views on this.

...
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:21 PM
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spleeeeen spleeeeen is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Sorry about the 'creative' thread title.



After 8 months of work and practice,I have won a bit a personal battle. Which was to improve my hi hat foot ( right foot/I'm lefty ). Better independence, dynamics, It has opened up a whole new world on the kit for me. I am so proud of myself.
My next challenge is to try and get my right hand ( your left, if you are righty.. ) to imitate Buddy's left ( yea, right ) i.e be capable of playing anything.. ( which I think you can do if you can play fast continuous triplets.. ) Homework for 2010.

If I can do that, then in the words of Jim Carey, I'll be the new King of Babylon!

All limbs are interchangeable- Buddy, Mike Mangini, Donati, Aydee come to mind...

Question is, do you tech guys think its important to pursue this goal? Is it a stupid, anal thing to pursue? It does brings alive the drumset in a way that it never did eiarlier, for me and thats the attraction for me right now.

But then Tony Williams said he wanted his left hand to sound like his left and not his right because together they did what they did.

Happy to hear any views on this.

...
Abe, congratulations! Nothing like experiencing ourselves as more skilled and capable, especially when it comes to expressing our musical ideas on our instruments!

My bias: I absolutely LOVE the journey involved with challenging myself in as many ways as possible, and this includes striving for increased ambidexterity. So for me, as long as you are enjoying yourself and having fun, keep working on that right hand.

AND, there has been some very solid neurobiological research published in recent years that suggests any kind of "novelty" we intentionally pursue with our bodies and brains (e.g., using our non-dominant hand to do things we normally do with our dominant hand, taking a new/unknown way home from work, travelling to a foreign country whose culture is different from ours, etc.) promotes neurogenesis, improves memory, and correlates with assessments of improved mood, concentration, and overall cognitive functioning.

My .02 for what it's worth. Hope you are well my friend!

spleen
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:28 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

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My .02 for what it's worth. Hope you are well my friend!

spleen
Thanks doc, now thats a whole bunch of unexpected good associated with it : )
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:40 PM
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Deltadrummer Deltadrummer is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

I have been doing the same thing; but more along the lines of Elvin Jones, Mike Clark, and Lenny White. I don't know if you know those guys since you're into guys like Lang, Donati, Mangini and Minnemann; P but I could ask what was your intention for doing that to begin with?

I gave up on Lang when I opened up the book, got through the first two chapters and then it said, set metronome to 215. I like the Minnemann stuff but even then playing 11 against 7 may not be very useful to me. I think there are a lot of ways that you can challenge yourself.

As we age, and you'll see this as you get older young man, this stuff keeps us active and alert. So anything you can do along those lines is a plus. But don't forget what you original musical intention was for learning this stuff. I would bet it had more to do with Elvin Jones, Lenny White and Mike Clark. :)
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:46 PM
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larryace larryace is online now
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

I think it is not only a noble goal to persue equal ability with the weak side, I really think it improves your brain in a major way. Think about it, if your weaker side is trained to be as strong as your strong side, how could you NOT benefit from that?

Here's a couple of great brain splitting exercises:

Touch the tips of both index fingers to each other at neck level.
Try to make circles in opposite directions, one going forward, one going backward.
It takes most people at least 5 minutes, sometimes more, before they can do this at all.
(hint: if it's really easy right from the start, you are probably going in the same direction, and your fingers are 180 degrees apart. That's not it. You really need to move them in opposite directions)

Another, not as hard:

Try making circles with one foot on the floor, and tap the floor with your other foot.
Switch feet and tap with the other one after you can do it.

Both these exercises work an area of the brain called the "Corpus Callosum" that is located between the 2 halves of the brain. It's a large bundle of nerve fibers that are responsible for the communication between the 2 brain halves. These brain exercises strengthen the nerve impulses, the "electrical path" between the 2 halves. Kind of like upsizing the wire so it can carry more "current".

But back to you Abe, right the eff on!
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:57 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

You caught me out, Ken. I did'nt think anyone would know Mike Clark & Lenny White, so I used 'in lieu of' ; )

My intention? Thats a good question. As Spleen said, on a broader level I like the idea of going to school on the kit. I need to always have something to work out/figure out.

On a musical level, Lenny & Mike with his linear madness always had the kit 'in constant motion'. Which I believe you can do if all four limbs are constantly involved and playing off each other.Mike and Lenny both were a huge influences, growing up.

The other exciting thing is that when the hat 'chick' becomes a significant voice ( and I dont just mean time keeping ), it changes the stuff you might have been playing for years, and you re work the sticking and the accents and you own playing sounds fresher, more interesting to you. At another level it frees up your other limbs to explore other murky corners of the rhythmscape... so all in all it just expands, very quicky what you already have as a player.

...

Last edited by aydee; 04-28-2010 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:06 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I These brain exercises strengthen the nerve impulses, the "electrical path" between the 2 halves. Kind of like upsizing the wire so it can carry more "current".
So how come you know so much about elecrical paths and currents,, no wait dont tell me, I think I know..

The finger thing didn't work when I just tried it, but i know I'll get it eventually : ). I did a version of this with one hand tapping the head while the other strokes the belly.

One thing I find that does wonders for these brain impulses is if there is visual aid. If I can see what my hands and feet are doing in association with the sound, strangely it gets much easier. All practice rooms must have a mirror.

...
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:24 PM
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Deltadrummer Deltadrummer is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

Wow, you've said a couple of mouthfuls there. Really important stuff. There is so much that can be done with the hats. When you think of great drummers. Papa Jo, Max, Tony Williams, Lenny White and Mike Clark, They are known for their high hat work. I know you've spoken of concerns in the past that it might be a lost art. It's waiting for Aydee to bring it back.

The other is of all the sound, which is really the melodic contour. That's what it's all about in the end. All those tabla lessons paid off for me.There is a point where you have to let the ear guide you and then the coordination becomes a piece of cake. Soon as you stop listening, you lose it. :)
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:24 PM
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larryace larryace is online now
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
The other exciting thing is that when the hat 'chick' becomes a significant voice ( and I dont just mean time keeping ), it changes the stuff you might have been playing for years, and you re work the sticking and the accents and you own playing sounds fresher, more interesting to you. At another level it frees up your other limbs to explore other murky corners of the rhythmscape... so all in all it just expands, very quicky what you already have as a player.
...
Yes Yes Yes! Also the mirror thing.
Abe, I wanted to ask you, is this just a recent breakthrough, or did you have it for a few months before finally exclaiming that it's here to stay? How did you get there, give us some background and details

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
Wow, you've said a couple of mouthfuls there. Really important stuff. There is so much that can be done with the hats.......


..... There is a point where you have to let the ear guide you and then the coordination becomes a piece of cake. Soon as you stop listening, you lose it. :)
I just discovered my hi hats within the last 2 years. They really are a world unto themselves.

+1000 on the ear guide/coordination part too
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:59 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

Larry, like I said I've been at it for a while. Recently I've seen Billy Ward and DiCenso play, and they've got such supreme mastery over tapping out a million different sounds from the hats, its truly amazing. It is the one voice on the kit that has the maximum dynamics if you think about it. The mirror thing is some thing I picked up from 'serious practicers'.

Ken, ears yes, but regarding independence, I now see what our friend Sam Ulano meant when he said move the rhythm from the tip of your right stick to the center of your belly. I mean I dont know how much of the totally syncopated El Negro thing I'll ever use , but its a fun academic exercise to pursue.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:49 PM
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MisterMixelpix MisterMixelpix is offline
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Default Re: The ultimate octopus?

That finger thing was fun. Swear to the lord I got it within about five seconds, but it was really cool having to focus like that.

Back on track, I have MONSTROUS respect for you limb independence guys. I train for more speed/precision, so true independence is a real "grass is greener" situation for me. Love watching that kind of stuff.
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