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  #81  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:22 PM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by kgrubb View Post
Actually the 201's are B8 bronze.
Are they? Even so, they function as a sub-line. I have a suspicion Paiste may very well remove them from their product line as doubling up in a market is inefficient. They're not old stock left over from the previous numbering system, are they?
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  #82  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Actually the 201's are B8 bronze.
Oh jeez, they are aren't they?
Hm. Should've done my homework. Sorry about that, I've never really been able to get much into Paiste... ):
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  #83  
Old 12-21-2008, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by kgrubb View Post
Actually the 201's are B8 bronze.
Is CuSn8 the same thing as B8? Because it says it's CuSn8 on Paiste's website:

http://www.paiste.com/e/cymbalsoverv...ily&menuid=292

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Originally Posted by DrewTheShoe View Post
Gotta agree with MFB on this one. 101's, 201's, and PST3's are all brass. While they are different, I really would like to see much of a significant quality difference in all brass cymbals. That said, the PST5's being B8 makes them the competition for B8s and ZBT's. No way a brass cymbal can stand up to bronze, even if it isn't the best quality.
Wow, I never realized this. Thanks for the enlightenment. If the ZXTs/ZHTs are competition to the Alphas, does that mean that they are all pro cymbals?

And also, if Alphas are pro, then does Paiste even HAVE any intermediate lines? I always thought that's what the PST 5s were for.

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Oh jeez, they are aren't they?
Hm. Should've done my homework. Sorry about that, I've never really been able to get much into Paiste... ):
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  #84  
Old 12-21-2008, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by 805Drummer View Post
Is CuSn8 the same thing as B8? Because it says it's CuSn8 on Paiste's website:
They say it's different than the conventional B8 alloy, but I don't think there's much magic behind it.
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  #85  
Old 12-21-2008, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

Sn is the symbol for tin and Cu is the symbol for copper on the periodic table of elements; CuSn8 is bronze with 8% tin. So the short answer is that B8 bronze would appear to be the same as CuSn8, since bronze is an alloy of copper/tin..
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  #86  
Old 12-22-2008, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

I would like Ludwig to update their snare action. The thing is old fashioned and unreliable.

I would like DW to improve quality control, especially in the bearing edge and paint departments. To my mind these areas are exceedingly poor and well below the industry standard.

I would like Yamaha to improve the interior finish on their Musashi snare line. I would also recommend that Yamaha places more care in quality control and avoids problems such as odd angle snare actions on high end expensive drums.

I look forward to Brady drums improving now that Chris is back at the helm. I had many issues with Brady while he was away. Now I await to see.

That's about it.
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  #87  
Old 12-22-2008, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by 805Drummer View Post
Is CuSn8 the same thing as B8? Because it says it's CuSn8 on Paiste's website:

http://www.paiste.com/e/cymbalsoverv...ily&menuid=292



Wow, I never realized this. Thanks for the enlightenment. If the ZXTs/ZHTs are competition to the Alphas, does that mean that they are all pro cymbals?

And also, if Alphas are pro, then does Paiste even HAVE any intermediate lines? I always thought that's what the PST 5s were for.
No. Alphas are intermediate. Paiste are a bit different in that most of their cymbals are made from B8 alloy, the 2oo2 line (pro level), Alphas (intermediate), PST5's (beginner) and 201's (so it transpires (sub-beginner)) are all made from the same alloy.

ZXT's and ZHT's are the Alpha series' direct competition, but the Alphas are often used as professional cymbals, such is their quality. They are actually incredibly good cymbals in their own right - so some people don't feel the need to pay more for the more expensive equivalent, the 2oo2.
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  #88  
Old 12-22-2008, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by 805Drummer View Post
Is CuSn8 the same thing as B8? Because it says it's CuSn8 on Paiste's website:

http://www.paiste.com/e/cymbalsoverv...ily&menuid=292



Wow, I never realized this. Thanks for the enlightenment. If the ZXTs/ZHTs are competition to the Alphas, does that mean that they are all pro cymbals?

And also, if Alphas are pro, then does Paiste even HAVE any intermediate lines? I always thought that's what the PST 5s were for.
Alright, this has gone WAAAY off topic. Let's end it now.

201 - B8, but still not very great. No direct competition.
PST3 - Brass, what do you expect.
PST5 - B8, actually has some work done on it. Competes with B8/ZBT
Alpha - B8, but very well made. Competes with ZHT, but still used by pros because of quality.

And 805, don't get all sarcastic and [excuse me] bitchy on me. Honestly, your sarcasm is not funny, condescending, and immature. Plus, don't be a hypocrite, mocking me when you too are ignorant of the facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 805drummer
Now APPARENTLY, I just learned that PST 3s are BRASS CYMBALS
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  #89  
Old 12-22-2008, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by wy yung View Post
I would like Ludwig to update their snare action. The thing is old fashioned and unreliable.

I would like DW to improve quality control, especially in the bearing edge and paint departments. To my mind these areas are exceedingly poor and well below the industry standard.

I would like Yamaha to improve the interior finish on their Musashi snare line. I would also recommend that Yamaha places more care in quality control and avoids problems such as odd angle snare actions on high end expensive drums.

I look forward to Brady drums improving now that Chris is back at the helm. I had many issues with Brady while he was away. Now I await to see.

That's about it.
Check out the Millenium P-86 strainer from Ludwig. When paired with the P-33 butt plate it is a vast improvement over the P-85 throw off. And it has the same hole placement as the P-85, so your old one can easily be replaced.
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  #90  
Old 12-22-2008, 12:53 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by DrewTheShoe View Post
Alright, this has gone WAAAY off topic. Let's end it now.

201 - B8, but still not very great. No direct competition.
PST3 - Brass, what do you expect.
PST5 - B8, actually has some work done on it. Competes with B8/ZBT
Alpha - B8, but very well made. Competes with ZHT, but still used by pros because of quality.

And 805, don't get all sarcastic and [excuse me] bitchy on me. Honestly, your sarcasm is not funny, condescending, and immature. Plus, don't be a hypocrite, mocking me when you too are ignorant of the facts.
None of my posts on this thread contain any hint of implied or obvious sarcasm. I learned a lot, and I was thanking you for it, because I didn't realize what these cymbal lines were made from.
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  #91  
Old 12-22-2008, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

If a cymbal is yellow... it's brass
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  #92  
Old 12-22-2008, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by Mikecore View Post
Remo: You're going to have to work very hard to make a better bass drum head than the EMAD.
um... ever heard of the Remo PowerSonic?


amazing drumhead. just as good as, if not better than, the Evans EMAD.


also, all this talk of cymbals gave me some ideas for Paiste and Meinl:

lower your prices on your professional-quality cymbals, and simplify your selection of products! you're confusing me!

for example, Paiste: I see no good reason why you need to have both the 2002 series AND the Giant Beat series! Just combine them!

at least with Sabian and Zildjian the basic pro-quality cymbal lines are easy to follow. You have the AA and A Zildjian traditional bright, the Hand Hammered and K Zildjian traditional dark, the AAX and A Custom modern bright, and the HHX and K Custom modern dark.

then they both have their various entry-level lines, and Sabian has the Vault/Signature/Paragon line, but the basic 4 cymbal lines for both companies are easy to follow. And, with the exception of a few models in the Sabian Vault/Signature line, all of Sabian's and Zildjian's pro-quality cymbals are B20 bronze alloy.

but Paiste and Meinl are all over the place, with different alloys and different, often overlapping cymbal lines. And, their cymbals (at least here in the USA) cost a substantial amount more than Zildjians and Sabians.

Last edited by drumguyfromWI; 12-22-2008 at 11:08 PM.
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  #93  
Old 12-23-2008, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

From my experiences so far:

Ludwig - GREAT sounding shells but poor quality control. Strainers and other hardware is not so great. Both of my brand new kits had flaws on the edges (albeit minor). The wraps could have been more durable. Quit using crappy Weathermaster heads and pick a big-brand like other builders have.

Pearl - Make those Masters MCX shells just a ply or two thinner and you're as close to perfection as you can get!

DW - Get real with your prices...they're just drums (apply this to Sonor and other mega-bucks drum makers)

Yamaha - Quit drilling big holes into the bass drums and holes into toms for the YESS mounts. Get with the times!

Vic Firth - Be consistent...signature models change over time making it very hard to pick just one stick and stay with it.

All stick-makers - Offer sticks of all models with non-slip surfaces like VF signature models have.

Remo - White coated heads have improved but could *still* be much more durable.
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  #94  
Old 12-23-2008, 01:45 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumguyfromWI View Post
um... ever heard of the Remo PowerSonic?


but Paiste and Meinl are all over the place, with different alloys and different, often overlapping cymbal lines. And, their cymbals (at least here in the USA) cost a substantial amount more than Zildjians and Sabians.
Google "Jack's Music Store." For some reason, their prices are much cheaper than any other major retailer of Paiste cymbals. I've had Guitar Center price match there at least twice.
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  #95  
Old 12-23-2008, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by 805Drummer View Post
Google "Jack's Music Store." For some reason, their prices are much cheaper than any other major retailer of Paiste cymbals. I've had Guitar Center price match there at least twice.
The prices are lower at Massmusic.net and the guys who run it are real friendly. You get free shipping too.
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  #96  
Old 12-23-2008, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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um... ever heard of the Remo PowerSonic?
*snip*

amazing drumhead. just as good as, if not better than, the Evans EMAD.
Yes, I've heard of it and tried it. Even though I was a lifelong Remo die hard, so I was already biased towards the Remo, I was not as impressed with the sound difference as I was with EMAD. Just personal preference I suppose, much like this here thread.=)
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  #97  
Old 12-23-2008, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

How 'bout tama's prices come down say......alot.

(sorry if this was already posted, i hope you'll understand i didnt feel like reading 96 friggen posts.....)

-Jonathan
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  #98  
Old 12-23-2008, 07:10 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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How 'bout tama's prices come down say......alot.

(sorry if this was already posted, i hope you'll understand i didnt feel like reading 96 friggen posts.....)

-Jonathan
You could always become friends with the employees at your favorite mom and pop store. That way you can get huge discounts
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  #99  
Old 12-24-2008, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by drumguyfromWI View Post
um... ever heard of the Remo PowerSonic?


amazing drumhead. just as good as, if not better than, the Evans EMAD.
I really would love to try that one. Some say it's great, others [most, in fact... sorry DG :( ] say it's terrible. I think I'd like an experience with it, see how it is...
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  #100  
Old 12-24-2008, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

The era is here where nearly everything low-to-mid level in overseas manufactured shell packs can be made with suspended toms and, thus, virgin kick drums. I can't think of any feature which may improve overall sound of drumshells than this. I hope all major manufacturers jump on board. Once they are tooled for this, all drummers will benefit. Yeah, I know, set up for gigging is more of a pain, but, I think worth the payoff in sound.
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  #101  
Old 12-24-2008, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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The era is here where nearly everything low-to-mid level in overseas manufactured shell packs can be made with suspended toms and, thus, virgin kick drums. I can't think of any feature which may improve overall sound of drumshells than this. I hope all major manufacturers jump on board. Once they are tooled for this, all drummers will benefit. Yeah, I know, set up for gigging is more of a pain, but, I think worth the payoff in sound.
I have sampled virgin kicks and suspended tom mounts and I have to admit that I can hear a slight difference. I can't justify the trade off that exists in setting them up to justify buying a kit with these features. I mount everything to my bass drum. My toms and my crash cymbals are all mounted to my bass with custom hardware that I designed. I mike my bass and my toms anyway. When I EQ the mikes it doesn't matter. It is so easy to set up and move if I have to with this mounting system. I simply pull the whole bass drum and my cymbals and my toms all follow. I tried rack systems and I couldn't stand them either. I guess that I like things the old fashioned way.
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  #102  
Old 12-25-2008, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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The era is here where nearly everything low-to-mid level in overseas manufactured shell packs can be made with suspended toms and, thus, virgin kick drums. I can't think of any feature which may improve overall sound of drumshells than this. I hope all major manufacturers jump on board. Once they are tooled for this, all drummers will benefit. Yeah, I know, set up for gigging is more of a pain, but, I think worth the payoff in sound.
I love virgin kicks too! My new Gretsch Catalina Club Mod 4-piece shell pack has a suspended tom and a virgin kick. They sound great, and I actually like suspended toms better, as I feel that it gives you more options for tom placement instead of being stuck to the kick drum.

but I don't agree that it makes setup and tear down more of a pain, well, maybe a little bit, but it's not so bad for me as I only have a 4-piece kit and only have to worry about one suspended tom.


the next step for manufacturers would be to have air suspention feet on their floor tom legs, like most Pearl kits do.
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  #103  
Old 12-25-2008, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

To those talking about the EMAD vs the Powersonic, I still think the EMAD beats the powersonic by a mile. There were two bass drums set up in my local drum store, one Pearl Export, and one very old Pearl Sessions. Same size. One had a relatively old EMAD, and one had what I would guess to be a relatively new Powersonic (this was barely a couple of months after they came out).

Unless the difference between a Export and a Sessions is so great, I guess it had to be the tuning and the heads themselves. The EMAD was DEEP and when you hit it (it was up against a wall) it just blew you away. Eq'd type sound, as if through a woofer. Powersonic...sounded flat and dead. Like what I'd imagine a Hydraulic to sound like. Pap...pap...pap...

So my vote goes to the EMAD.

And to whoever was talking about the cymbal coatings, yes I do agree. Sabian brilliant cymbals in particular, I think are the biggest culprit. Fingerprints everywhere...and I'm completely obsessed about keeping my cymbals clean. Gloves, cloths, and a drumstick thrown around at whoever comes up and starts spinning my cymbals on their stands...

But really I guess I'm pretty content with what's on the market today. And actually, I'd have to say that I'm GLAD that some companies offer less than par drumkits. It makes MY CHOICE EASIER! Too many kits to consider otherwise :p.
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  #104  
Old 12-25-2008, 06:14 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
I have sampled virgin kicks and suspended tom mounts and I have to admit that I can hear a slight difference. I can't justify the trade off that exists in setting them up to justify buying a kit with these features. I mount everything to my bass drum. My toms and my crash cymbals are all mounted to my bass with custom hardware that I designed. I mike my bass and my toms anyway. When I EQ the mikes it doesn't matter. It is so easy to set up and move if I have to with this mounting system. I simply pull the whole bass drum and my cymbals and my toms all follow. I tried rack systems and I couldn't stand them either. I guess that I like things the old fashioned way.
I think the sound difference is huge. In fact, I've never owned a kick with mounted toms because I like the virgin kick sound so much.

As far as more "complicated" setup, I disagree. I have a cymbal mounted on each of my two tom stands, so I'm not really bringing any more stands than normal. If you break the set all the way down for cases, you still have to set up the bass drum mount and the two mounted toms. I just put together a tom stand with the cymbal boom and mount the toms.

Of course, I also completely detest toms mounted on bass drums. I can never get them into the positions I want...
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  #105  
Old 12-27-2008, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

I think DW should use the Pacific/Workshop oval lugs across the board. They are much more elegant than the porkpie hats that they use currently.
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Last edited by Mikecore; 12-27-2008 at 08:14 PM. Reason: productivity
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  #106  
Old 12-27-2008, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

I guess my preferences boil down to common sense things that have been mentioned. Good solid hardware. Small or moderate lugs. Well made shells. Finishes that don't look like a paint store exploded.

Of course I say this while watching the Police synchronicity dvd. There is Stewart Copeland on his nice blue 1980's Tama imperialstars (not even the high end drums of the day) and they sound great.

Most drum companies offer most features I am after and some changes are nit picking preference.

But I still think they'd reap performance benefit from changes in many cases.
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  #107  
Old 01-15-2009, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

Start making the Peavey Radial pro again..
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  #108  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

I really dug those Peavey drums. I can see why they failed in the market, though- funny lookin', heavy, and expensive. But, they sounded great.

I wish someone would incorporate the Arbiter system on a regular drum shell again; one that wouldn't be as fragile as wood, since I think that's the reason only the Flats survive... Maybe one of the synthetic shell companies? Trick? Tempus? Anyone? I'm not so sure about the DTS thing...
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  #109  
Old 01-16-2009, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

i bought mine new and they were priced in the upper middle compaired to the other high end maple kits available at the time, and from what i understand Steven Volpp is in talks with another company and may be re releasing them under another name.

Last edited by tard; 01-16-2009 at 06:03 PM. Reason: forgot to add something
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