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  #41  
Old 12-17-2008, 06:58 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by dkerwood View Post
DW- You're great, but I'm not sure you're all you're cracked up to be. I've heard gross sounding DWs, and Pearl Exports that sound as good as the best DWs. So what makes you worth the extra thousand bucks?
What about heads, tuning, sticks, room acoustics, PLAYER?
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  #42  
Old 12-17-2008, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by Der Februar View Post
What about heads, tuning, sticks, room acoustics, PLAYER?
Exactly my point. I posit that the only reason DWs generally sound better than, say, a Pearl Export is that the player on the DW GENERALLY has been playing longer and thus is more willing to make the larger investment. This more experienced player will generally have a better idea of the sound he wants and how to achieve that sound. His expensive kit will also generally be surrounded by high end accessories (how many D-Dubs do you see surrounded by B8Pro cymbals?), which serve to further enhance the sound.

I know a DW player who changes his batter heads once a month, and his resos almost as often. Of COURSE his set will sound better than the guy who's been beating on the same heads for 3 years, regardless of the make of the shells.

DW drums sound different, no question, but I'm not convinced that they're worth the extra ca$h... which is why I play GMS instead.
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  #43  
Old 12-17-2008, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Exactly my point. I posit that the only reason DWs generally sound better than, say, a Pearl Export is that the player on the DW GENERALLY has been playing longer and thus is more willing to make the larger investment. This more experienced player will generally have a better idea of the sound he wants and how to achieve that sound. His expensive kit will also generally be surrounded by high end accessories (how many D-Dubs do you see surrounded by B8Pro cymbals?), which serve to further enhance the sound.

I know a DW player who changes his batter heads once a month, and his resos almost as often. Of COURSE his set will sound better than the guy who's been beating on the same heads for 3 years, regardless of the make of the shells.

DW drums sound different, no question, but I'm not convinced that they're worth the extra ca$h... which is why I play GMS instead.
I like GMS lugs better, and those white ash drums.
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  #44  
Old 12-17-2008, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
I thought about how much I like some kits, but can't get past some features found on some kits. If I could, I'd change the following:

DW: Downsize the lugs, by about 1/2. They are (IMO) too huge

Pearl: Downsize the tom arms. Again, huge...Downsize the square rack, and make it with a smoother surface. (lower visual profile)

Ludwig: better double tom stands. They don't hold large toms well at all.

Tama: more finishes for bubinga drums (Including b/b), maybe an affordable wrap

Trick: offer machined pedal beater with more weight than the small beater they offer.
Ludwig: PERMANENT wraps, like they did in the 1970's, ever try to remove black cortex from the 1970's?? Yeah, it should be THAT well glued!! When I buy a kit I want it to STAY together and not have to be re-wrapped because the wrap fell off or split. That's BUSH league man!! That stuff is WAY too expensive for the wrap to fall off in a few years.

Check the attachment~ made in 1999, they should last 30 years before a HINT of the wrap having a problem shows up!!!! HACKERS!!

Damn shame!!
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  #45  
Old 12-17-2008, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by Vipercussionist View Post
Ludwig: PERMANENT wraps, like they did in the 1970's, ever try to remove black cortex from the 1970's?? Yeah, it should be THAT well glued!! When I buy a kit I want it to STAY together and not have to be re-wrapped because the wrap fell off or split. That's BUSH league man!! That stuff is WAY too expensive for the wrap to fall off in a few years.

Check the attachment~ made in 1999, they should last 30 years before a HINT of the wrap having a problem shows up!!!! HACKERS!!

Damn shame!!
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...OUCH!!!

What happened to your tom ? Was that shrinkage or some other type of road rash ?

Barry
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  #46  
Old 12-17-2008, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

How about upgrading the stock heads?
They never give you the top-of-the-line drum heads.
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  #47  
Old 12-17-2008, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by LeeLovesSabian View Post
How about upgrading the stock heads?
They never give you the top-of-the-line drum heads.
The school where I teach just bought a Pearl Vision kit. I was impressed at how good the stock heads were. Clear pinstripe-esque batter heads, great kick heads with muffling, and everything tunes up very well.

I've also been pretty impressed with DW's stock heads.
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  #48  
Old 12-17-2008, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
It hurt me to see the price of the anniversary Steve Gadd and Steve Smith kit. Hmm... a kit that neither actually played, kits that can be ordered normally anyway. Add a name plate and triple or quadruple the price. Ouch.
Yep, exactly. It made a perfect climax for me when they released all those new signature kits. The prices are so high even though those kits don`t really differ in material...more in cosmetics.

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  #49  
Old 12-18-2008, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by Vipercussionist View Post
Ludwig: PERMANENT wraps, like they did in the 1970's, ever try to remove black cortex from the 1970's?? Yeah, it should be THAT well glued!! When I buy a kit I want it to STAY together and not have to be re-wrapped because the wrap fell off or split. That's BUSH league man!! That stuff is WAY too expensive for the wrap to fall off in a few years.

Check the attachment~ made in 1999, they should last 30 years before a HINT of the wrap having a problem shows up!!!! HACKERS!!

Damn shame!!
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=O 30 years! One of those cost cutting/time saving methods are to ttach the wrap at one point with hi-bond tape. Easy to remove, but not nearly the durability.

Ludwig's process was so bad at one point in the 80's, the wrap had rivits!!!

I see wraps from the 50's and 60's intact all the time. Yellowed a bit maybe...
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  #50  
Old 12-18-2008, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by dkerwood View Post
Exactly my point.
Oh, I see your point. What does GMS stand for? I don't know much about the different brands.
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  #51  
Old 12-18-2008, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

Oh, what a suprise... some of my comments got deleted.

For the record, they were that Pearl are the dodgiest guys in the business who make a living on stealing ideas from the small guys. Golden Ratio concept? Stolen. Putting a patent in for the stave method of construction? Dodgy as.
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2008, 02:30 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Oh, what a suprise... some of my comments got deleted.

For the record, they were that Pearl are the dodgiest guys in the business who make a living on stealing ideas from the small guys. Golden Ratio concept? Stolen. Putting a patent in for the stave method of construction? Dodgy as.
MY friend (who still has a small drum shop) had the first year (76?) Rogers kit with memriloc. It was *obviously* different from any existing hardware. According to him, they failed to patent it. Pearl had a very similar system not long afterwards.

Maybe I can't use the "S" word, perhaps "Borrow/inspired the concept via lateral examination of pre-existing corporate product" would be more correct. I saw your original post and even though it was removed, I agreed with what you said.
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  #53  
Old 12-18-2008, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

Said patent: http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7446250.html

It's so ridiculous that a company that's relatively young (compared to Ludwig, Gretsch, etc) has the balls to pay to have a patent put through on arguably the oldest method of manufacturing drums.
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  #54  
Old 12-18-2008, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Said patent: http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/7446250.html

It's so ridiculous that a company that's relatively young (compared to Ludwig, Gretsch, etc) has the balls to pay to have a patent put through on arguably the oldest method of manufacturing drums.
That's insane!

Not to mention, I have never seen a stave pearl drum. Didn't know they ever made any.
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  #55  
Old 12-18-2008, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
That's insane!

Not to mention, I have never seen a stave pearl drum. Didn't know they ever made any.
They don't make any. They rebadge the drums made by a small european company, whose product doesn't appear anywhere near the quality of most small/boutique builders like Unix, Metro, Brady, and JTP (plus a heap of others). They don't seem to be all that well made; not even lathed on the inside.
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  #56  
Old 12-18-2008, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by baz View Post
...OUCH!!!

What happened to your tom ? Was that shrinkage or some other type of road rash ?

Barry
That's not a tom, that's a 14x26 inch kick drum the wrap shrunk so bad that it pulled itself apart. The 18inch floor tom's wrap fell off completely after removing the lugs, just fell off the shell like it wasn't ever part of the drum.

Needless to say I was NOT impressed!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
=O 30 years! One of those cost cutting/time saving methods are to ttach the wrap at one point with hi-bond tape. Easy to remove, but not nearly the durability.

Ludwig's process was so bad at one point in the 80's, the wrap had rivits!!!

I see wraps from the 50's and 60's intact all the time. Yellowed a bit maybe...
That wrap WAS fully glued, not taped, the shell was still slightly tacky, but not NEARLY enough to hold the wrap in place.

And as for the RIVETS?? I have a Rivet kit, that wrap is as nice as the day it was bought, practically INDESTRUCTIBLE!! and they sound GREAT!!!
And my 1960's kits, they have stayed together MORE than the 30 years I mentioned and look great and sound great too!!
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  #57  
Old 12-18-2008, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by Vipercussionist View Post
That wrap WAS fully glued, not taped, the shell was still slightly tacky, but not NEARLY enough to hold the wrap in place.

And as for the RIVETS?? I have a Rivet kit, that wrap is as nice as the day it was bought, practically INDESTRUCTIBLE!! and they sound GREAT!!!
And my 1960's kits, they have stayed together MORE than the 30 years I mentioned and look great and sound great too!!
I am glad the rivits didn't turn out to be a bad thing. I have read a lot of jabs at Ludwig for doing that.
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  #58  
Old 12-18-2008, 06:14 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by dkerwood View Post
Tama- The 80's called; they want their lugs back.

Ddrum- Marketing an entire drum series to a specific genre of music? How silly. Oh, wait. That's Tama's philosophy, too.
What's 80's about the Starclassic lugs? And Tama doesn't strictly market to hard rock & metal. OCDP does. (or at least every endorser I've ever seen in any ad is rock/metal/punk.)
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  #59  
Old 12-18-2008, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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What's 80's about the Starclassic lugs? And Tama doesn't strictly market to hard rock & metal. OCDP does. (or at least every endorser I've ever seen in any ad is rock/metal/punk.)
Ok, so the Starclassics are gorgeous. I'll give you that (and I love my SC snare)... but every set lower than that has and has had the same lugs that scream "hair metal" to me every time I see them.

I don't see a lot of jazzers or pop players endorsing or even PLAYING Tama. IME, if I see Tama drums, it's due to one of two reasons:

1) The drummer is a metalhead or a hard rocker, and eventually wants a huge double bass kit with power toms and gong drums and at least 14 chinas stacked around the set...

2) The drummer doesn't have much money and is playing on a Tama kit FROM the 80's. Usually accompanied by B8 and ZXT cymbals and with a big blanket jammed in the bass drum. :-)
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  #60  
Old 12-18-2008, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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I am glad the rivits didn't turn out to be a bad thing. I have read a lot of jabs at Ludwig for doing that.
The rivets most certainly LOOK stupid, but they do the job that's the bottom line. Ludwig's 6 ply maple shells were heavy, but they sound great, I'm saying thet from first hand experience.
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  #61  
Old 12-19-2008, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Ok, so the Starclassics are gorgeous. I'll give you that (and I love my SC snare)... but every set lower than that has and has had the same lugs that scream "hair metal" to me every time I see them.
if you're referring to the long double-sided lugs, yeah, I hate those too. They only have them on the Superstar series. (And the now GC-exclusive Rockstar series.)

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Originally Posted by dkerwood View Post
I don't see a lot of jazzers or pop players endorsing or even PLAYING Tama. IME, if I see Tama drums, it's due to one of two reasons:

1) The drummer is a metalhead or a hard rocker, and eventually wants a huge double bass kit with power toms and gong drums and at least 14 chinas stacked around the set...
A quick rundown of about half of Tama's artist list included these guys- some rock, yeah, but not the kind of meathead rock you're referring to:

John Blackwell
Kenny Arnoff
Bill Bruford
Ronald Bruner Jr.
Stewart Copeland
Alan Evans
Brian Frasier-Moore
Rodney Holmes
Barrett Martin (check him out!)

And there were also a lot of names that I didn't recognize, but were playing with r&b/jazz artists. Yes, the majority of Tama's roster is hard rock, metal, & punk. Same with most companies, and OCDP still dominate this trend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkerwood View Post
2) The drummer doesn't have much money and is playing on a Tama kit FROM the 80's. Usually accompanied by B8 and ZXT cymbals and with a big blanket jammed in the bass drum. :-)
DW & Pearl do the same thing. We all know their name artists aren't playing the low end stuff, they do it to sell kits.
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  #62  
Old 12-19-2008, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by timmdrum View Post
A quick rundown of about half of Tama's artist list included these guys- some rock, yeah, but not the kind of meathead rock you're referring to:

John Blackwell
Kenny Arnoff
Bill Bruford
Ronald Bruner Jr.
Stewart Copeland
Alan Evans
Brian Frasier-Moore
Rodney Holmes
Barrett Martin (check him out!)

And there were also a lot of names that I didn't recognize, but were playing with r&b/jazz artists. Yes, the majority of Tama's roster is hard rock, metal, & punk. Same with most companies, and OCDP still dominate this trend.
But in the real world, I've never seen a jazz player with a Tama kit. Of course, they could play jazz on a Tama kit, much in the same way you COULD play jazz guitar on a flying v. I submit that marketing causes this. And yes, OCDP does market in a similar way, but they put out a fraction of the number of sets Tama produces, and for a much shorter timeframe.

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DW & Pearl do the same thing. We all know their name artists aren't playing the low end stuff, they do it to sell kits.
First of all, there's no such thing as a "low end" DW kit. Everything they sell is marketed to the pro.

All I meant by my quoted comment was that Pearl and Yamaha seem to have better representation by quality musicians across genres and levels. I see a lot of second and third tier touring bands playing on (and sounding great with) mid-level Pearl and Yammie sets. Lots of Exports and Stage Customs out there. Maybe it's a regional thing, but I don't see a lot of Rockstars come through, even though they're a fine kit.
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  #63  
Old 12-19-2008, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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But in the real world, I've never seen a jazz player with a Tama kit. Of course, they could play jazz on a Tama kit, much in the same way you COULD play jazz guitar on a flying v. I submit that marketing causes this. And yes, OCDP does market in a similar way, but they put out a fraction of the number of sets Tama produces, and for a much shorter timeframe.
There are some jazz artists listed in their roster, but no one whose name I recognized instantly, so I didn't list them. Tama's gear is just as suited for jazz as anyone else's, so it's not like playing jazz guitar on a V. Playing jazz on Portnoy's kit, maybe yeah, haha! They just don't have as many jazz artists as endorsers. (Bruford's the only one I'm aware of unless I'm looking at their list.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by dkerwood View Post
First of all, there's no such thing as a "low end" DW kit. Everything they sell is marketed to the pro.

All I meant by my quoted comment was that Pearl and Yamaha seem to have better representation by quality musicians across genres and levels. I see a lot of second and third tier touring bands playing on (and sounding great with) mid-level Pearl and Yammie sets. Lots of Exports and Stage Customs out there. Maybe it's a regional thing, but I don't see a lot of Rockstars come through, even though they're a fine kit.
Yes, DW does, it's the Pacific line, and just like Pearl, they put a bunch of (mostly punk & metal) DW endorsers in ads for the Pacific stuff. Lame marketing. I used to see as many Rockstar drums on stages as Exports & SC's, but since they've been discontinued (except at GC), not so much anymore. And I agree that Pearl & Yamaha's artist roster seems more diverse that Tama's.
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  #64  
Old 12-20-2008, 05:42 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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There are some jazz artists listed in their roster, but no one whose name I recognized instantly, so I didn't list them. Tama's gear is just as suited for jazz as anyone else's, so it's not like playing jazz guitar on a V. Playing jazz on Portnoy's kit, maybe yeah, haha! They just don't have as many jazz artists as endorsers. (Bruford's the only one I'm aware of unless I'm looking at their list.)
You can play jazz guitar on a V. Heck, I knew a college professor who played fantastic jazz guitar on a 7 string Schecter. Looked a little odd, but sounded great. With the exception of the SC, Tamas just look a little too hardcore for jazz, but they could still certainly be used.

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Originally Posted by timmdrum View Post
Yes, DW does, it's the Pacific line, and just like Pearl, they put a bunch of (mostly punk & metal) DW endorsers in ads for the Pacific stuff. Lame marketing. I used to see as many Rockstar drums on stages as Exports & SC's, but since they've been discontinued (except at GC), not so much anymore. And I agree that Pearl & Yamaha's artist roster seems more diverse that Tama's.
I don't count Pacific to be the same thing as a Pearl Forum. There are still high end Pacific kits in addition to their entry kits. The DW brand only goes on pro quality gear.
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  #65  
Old 12-20-2008, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

I'm waiting for someone to mention;

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  #66  
Old 12-20-2008, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

Mapex: More hardware options. racks especially. make apparel! cheap advertisement if you ask me.

Zildjian: quit the ZBT line. just quit it. horrible cymbals.

Pearl: company is way too big. quality not quantity.
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  #67  
Old 12-20-2008, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

I would like to see more packaged kits with 20" bass drums.


Also, Yamaha's slight variation of the Pearl rack system doesn't warrant doubling the price.
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  #68  
Old 12-20-2008, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by drummerchick435 View Post
Mapex: More hardware options. racks especially. make apparel! cheap advertisement if you ask me.

Zildjian: quit the ZBT line. just quit it. horrible cymbals.

Pearl: company is way too big. quality not quantity.
I don't necessarily think that Zildjian should QUIT the ZBT line, but I do think they should revamp it. I'm no expert on how a cymbal's shape affects it's sound, but the ZBTs seem to be basically just sheets of metal that make a cymbal-like sound. The PST 3s, for the same price, are still cheap-sounding cymbals, but they have a slightly more complex sound, because the undersides of the cymbals are hammered in various patterns. In an ideal world, everyone's starter cymbals would be PST 3s, because I've tried the B8s and the ZBTs and they are the plainest cymbals you could imagine. Plus, Sabian and Zildjian should pick up on the whole "cymbal coating" thing so they don't get fingerprints, like Paiste does.
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  #69  
Old 12-20-2008, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

PST 3's are brass. PST 5's are B8 bronze. I know which I'd prefer...
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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PST 3's are brass. PST 5's are B8 bronze. I know which I'd prefer...
I wasn't talking about the PST 5's, or the ZXTs, or the B8 Pros. Those are all midrange, one step up, a bit more expensive. But the PST 3s are for people just starting out, who want the cheapest cymbals possible. Unfortunately, most people go with B8s and ZBTs.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by 805Drummer View Post
I wasn't talking about the PST 5's, or the ZXTs, or the B8 Pros. Those are all midrange, one step up, a bit more expensive. But the PST 3s are for people just starting out, who want the cheapest cymbals possible. Unfortunately, most people go with B8s and ZBTs.
PST5's are the equivalent of B8's. The Paiste equivalent of B8 Pros and ZXT's/ZHT's (arguably) are the Alpha series and they're good, nay great, midrange cymbals. PST3'd are actually more comparable to Planet Z and Sabian Solar - the 'sub beginner' market as it were. Of those, the PST3's win outright, no question, but the PST5's ARE the Paiste equivalent of B8's and ZBT's.
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
PST5's are the equivalent of B8's. The Paiste equivalent of B8 Pros and ZXT's/ZHT's (arguably) are the Alpha series and they're good, nay great, midrange cymbals. PST3'd are actually more comparable to Planet Z and Sabian Solar - the 'sub beginner' market as it were. Of those, the PST3's win outright, no question, but the PST5's ARE the Paiste equivalent of B8's and ZBT's.
What? No they aren't. If the PST 3s are the equivalent of the B8s and ZBTs, then what about the Paiste 101s and 201s? THOSE are the equivalent of Planet Zs and Solars.
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by LeeLovesSabian View Post
How about upgrading the stock heads?
They never give you the top-of-the-line drum heads.
my new Gretsch Catalina Club Mod 4-piece shell pack came with coated Evans G1's on the snare and tom batters, and came with pre-muffled bass drum heads.

I'm normally a Remo guy, but I'm not complaining. Yeah, Evans aren't my favorite brand of head, but it's a heck of a lot better than getting the crappy stock heads that you get with most drums. my drums actually sound pretty good, and I didn't even have to go out and buy new heads right away.

anyway, my changes for Sabian:

Combine the B8 line with the B8 Pro line and just call it B8 (seriously, what the difference between the two lines besides B8 Pro's cost a tiny bit more and have a brilliant finish?), and start making APX's out of the B20 Xs20 alloy, then combine the APX line into the Xs20 line and just call it Xs20. (why anyone would buy APX cymbals that are B8 bronze when they could get Xs20 cymbals that are B20 bronze for about the same price is beyond me.)

that way there's three levels of cymbals: entry-level (B8), intermediate-level (Xs20), and pro-level (AA, AAX, HH, HHX, and Vault/Signature/Paragon).

also, drop the Solar line altogether. I wouldn't wish brass cymbals upon anyone.

Last edited by drumguyfromWI; 12-20-2008 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by drumguyfromWI View Post
also, drop the Solar line altogether. I wouldn't wish brass cymbals upon anyone.
Except for people who can't afford B8s.
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Except for people who can't afford B8s.
nope, not even those people.

the only people who usually would buy brass cymbals are people who are just getting into drumming. the brass cymbals come with entry-level kits. but my opinion is, entry-level drumsets, if they're going to come with cymbals at all, should come with B8 bronze cymbals instead of brass. sure, it would probably make the price of entry-level kits go up a bit, but in the long run, the customers are going to be happier because the cymbals will actually sound like cymbals and be a bit more durable. most people are willing to pay a little more for something that is a quality product and will last.

if you're at all serious about really getting into drumming, you usually just end up replacing the brass cymbals with bronze cymbals almost immediately anyway. having bronze cymbals from the get-go would save people more of their precious time and money.

so attention all drumset manufacturers: if you're going to give people cymbals with their entry-level kits, either give them B8 bronze cymbals or no cymbals at all. brass cymbals are almost worthless.
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Old 12-21-2008, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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What? No they aren't. If the PST 3s are the equivalent of the B8s and ZBTs, then what about the Paiste 101s and 201s? THOSE are the equivalent of Planet Zs and Solars.
Yes they are. That's why the PST3's are brass and the PST5's are B8 bronze. The 101 and 201 series use a different hammering and lathing method to the PST5's, so essentially Paiste have three sub-lines. Do your research and you'd know this. The PST5's are priced to compete with ZBT's and B8's - at least they are over here. The Alpha series competes with the ZXT/ZHT (and has been around longer) and arguably competes with the B8 Pro line from Sabian. The 101's and 201's compete with the Solars and Planet Z's ALONG WITH the PST3's. The PST5's are Paiste's entry-level B8 bronze cymbals.
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:57 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 805drummer
What? No they aren't. If the PST 3s are the equivalent of the B8s and ZBTs, then what about the Paiste 101s and 201s? THOSE are the equivalent of Planet Zs and Solars.
Yes they are. That's why the PST3's are brass and the PST5's are B8 bronze. The 101 and 201 series use a different hammering and lathing method to the PST5's, so essentially Paiste have three sub-lines. Do your research and you'd know this. The PST5's are priced to compete with ZBT's and B8's - at least they are over here. The Alpha series competes with the ZXT/ZHT (and has been around longer) and arguably competes with the B8 Pro line from Sabian. The 101's and 201's compete with the Solars and Planet Z's ALONG WITH the PST3's. The PST5's are Paiste's entry-level B8 bronze cymbals.
Gotta agree with MFB on this one. 101's, 201's, and PST3's are all brass. While they are different, I really would like to see much of a significant quality difference in all brass cymbals. That said, the PST5's being B8 makes them the competition for B8s and ZBT's. No way a brass cymbal can stand up to bronze, even if it isn't the best quality.
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

Make smaller bass drums available for lower end lines. A floor tom lying about on its side does not a bass drum make. I'm talking 16's and 18's here.

Learn that there is nothing wrong with 6, 13, 15 and 18" toms. Nothing. EVER!

Pearl: read the above.

DW: Bring back the mini-lug for Collectors/Jazz/Classics Series drums; 6" toms. Not "tube toms" or "ratatoullie" drums or whatever. 5x6" toms.

Gretsch/Sonor: Five lugs on 10 and 12" toms? Really? Also, I might be willing to look into the Renowns if I thought I could get something more than just a four or five-piece kit.

Pacific: Tube lugs=FAIL; expand the birch lines, they actually sound pretty good.

Ludwig: I stopped paying attention to you when I couldn't afford anything you make. Bye.

OCDP: Don't insult me with this whole Newport/Avalon stuff. Y'know, "Here's an OCDP kit, now quit bugging us for affordable drums." Even DW did better with PDP at the outset.

Tama: Lose the long lugs. You should know better.

Yamaha: A little less depth on the toms.

Sabian: What happened to the other ten sizes of cup chimes and bell discs when the RADIAs got axed?

Remo: You're going to have to work very hard to make a better bass drum head than the EMAD.

Evans: Your EMAD collar keeps splitting on me. I think they are too brittle and can't take the vibration after a fashion. Also, EMADs for 16" bass drums.
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Old 12-21-2008, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by drumguyfromWI View Post

Combine the B8 line with the B8 Pro line and just call it B8 (seriously, what the difference between the two lines besides B8 Pro's cost a tiny bit more and have a brilliant finish?).
Seriously? You can't tell the difference between B8 and B8 Pro? Man, for me, it's the difference between "dull and lifeless" and "bare minimum requirements as an instrument". In fact, there are some B8 Pro hats and rides that have sounded brighter and more responsive to me than some MUCH more expensive pies. Are they GREAT cymbals? No, they're cymbals that have an acceptable sound. But the B8s? Dead. Clangy. They sound "like" cymbals, but are not REALLY cymbals.

A lot of schools I work with have to use B8 or B8Pro because of their limited budgets. I get to hear all sorts of variants of the two lines in all levels of dirtiness, age, and disarray... and the Pros seem to outshine the B8s every single time.
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Old 12-21-2008, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: What would you change about a drum brand?

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Originally Posted by DrewTheShoe View Post
Gotta agree with MFB on this one. 101's, 201's, and PST3's are all brass. While they are different, I really would like to see much of a significant quality difference in all brass cymbals. That said, the PST5's being B8 makes them the competition for B8s and ZBT's. No way a brass cymbal can stand up to bronze, even if it isn't the best quality.
Actually the 201's are B8 bronze.
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