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Old 01-07-2019, 12:43 PM
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Default Concert style tom's

What are the advantages and disadvantages of concert style tom's, including floor tom's with just the batter head, live and in the studio?
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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What are the advantages and disadvantages of concert style tom's, including floor tom's with just the batter head, live and in the studio?
Advantages: More attack. Easier to tune to specific pitches. Easier to mic. Less overtones. Easier to transport since they can nest easily.

Disadvantages: Short sustain/less resonance. Less tone. Looks dated. Since they are more tonal it can clash easier with music.

Can be a Pro or Con: The feel. Some people like it, some don't.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by BertTheDrummer View Post
Advantages: More attack. Easier to tune to specific pitches. Easier to mic. Less overtones. Easier to transport since they can nest easily.

Disadvantages: Short sustain/less resonance. Less tone. Looks dated. Since they are more tonal it can clash easier with music.

Can be a Pro or Con: The feel. Some people like it, some don't.
+1, it's an acquired taste but the amount of songs recorded with them is mind blowing.

I guess Hal Blaine is the pioneer with concert toms when he converted a pair of timbales and used them instead of toms that was a couple of years before his monster kit which is the most recorded instrument ever.

They made perfect sense with recording technology at the time

They're great fun to play, my mate has a 9 piece concert tom Premier, it's that 70s it wears flares and platform boots. If you want that barky staccato sound, you can't get it with double headed toms.

A big plus side is you can get a huge concert tom set for next to nothing. I put a post up about a huge double bass drum set concert tom vistalite I saw for sale at £1500. It would've cost more than that new without factoring in inflation. P.S. I didn't get it in the end.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

I have a nice little site about concert toms - www.concerttoms.com :)

Single-headed tom sounds depend on same aspects that affect traditional toms: shell material & construction, edges, mounts, head type, and especially miking. Miked from underneath - not on top of the head - concert toms sound full and rich, and with only one head to tune, it's easier to get a great sound. Likewise, in an unmiked situation, the audience hears a fuller, richer sound than the drummer does sitting behind the kit. Of course, the difference between the drummer's sound perception and the audience's, or a microphone's, is widely-known.

Consider also that the concert tom sound most drummers are familiar with are from the '70s - disco and many pop recordings - where the toms were sometimes muffled mercilessly, miked from the top, and outfitted with a relatively limited choice of heads. Head technology has taken giant leaps since then, and the right heads today can make just about all of those temperamental drums from the past sound like they never could back in the day. I'm talking stainless steel, acrylic, and concert toms.

Bermuda
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

If you are thinking about going the concert tom route, here's an idea. Cut a small hole in the bottom head. Just like you port your bass drum. Try it out.
Cut a bigger hole in the bottom head. Try that out also. You can replicate a concert tom sound without the concert tom look.


.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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... You can replicate a concert tom sound without the concert tom look.
Correct! Countless drummers (no pun intended!) did that in the '60/70s and beyond. Perhaps part of the lure of actual concert toms was the look, and less hardware attached to the shell had a benefit to the sound, although drummers were generally not very educated (or concerned?) about shell construction, lug mass, etc back in the day.

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Old 01-07-2019, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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I have a nice little site about concert toms - www.concerttoms.com :)
FYI your link is going to a 404 error on your domain =\
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

Works OK for me.

..........................
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Old 01-07-2019, 06:10 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

Works for me too. You could also try www.bermudaschwartz.com/concerttoms/index.html
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

I have a maple kit and I've been thinking about cutting out the bottom tom heads while leaving the hardware on to protect the shells to make concert tom's.

Being that most clubs use clip on mics and mic from the top would concert style tom's still sound good miced from the top? Also, if a sound guy were to clip on the mic to the bottom hardware , being that I would have the bottom heads cut out but hardware still on, the mic would not go up into the tom's with the clip on style mics. How would this sound?
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

Has anyone here tried just cutting a small hole in their bottom tom heads, and pointing the mics toward/slightly inside the holes, like a bass drum? What were the results?
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by drummingman View Post
Also, if a sound guy were to clip on the mic to the bottom hardware , being that I would have the bottom heads cut out but hardware still on, the mic would not go up into the tom's with the clip on style mics. How would this sound?
That's where they sound best - with the mic right at the bottom edge of the drum. Too far inside and you get a choked 'boing' effect. There's not enough room for the sound wave to develop. Bottom edge, pointed towards the head is perfect.

Most sound guys and a lot of studio engineers don't know that because they're too young to remember how it was done when concert toms were common. Feel free to (nicely) suggest it to them, they'll probably be amazed at the result.

Bermuda
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
That's where they sound best - with the mic right at the bottom edge of the drum. Too far inside and you get a choked 'boing' effect. There's not enough room for the sound wave to develop. Bottom edge, pointed towards the head is perfect.

Most sound guys and a lot of studio engineers don't know that because they're too young to remember how it was done when concert toms were common. Feel free to (nicely) suggest it to them, they'll probably be amazed at the result.

Bermuda
Sweet, thanks!

I currently use clear Ambassador batter head's. Will that sound good with the concert style set up?
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Sweet, thanks!

I currently use clear Ambassador batter head's. Will that sound good with the concert style set up?
Part of the beauty of single-headed toms is that you really hear the difference between heads and to an extent, can target the desired sound.

So a 1-ply clear head will have a clean attack with some tone, a 1-ply coated will have less attack, a 2-ply clear will have attack but slightly muted tone & decay, a dot head will have a little more attack, a Pinstripe or EC2 will have less attack and more punch, etc etc. basically, whatever the head's description, that's pretty much what you can expect it to sound like on a concert tom.

However there are additional factors that affect how the head behaves, such as the edge, and the overall vibe of the drum is affected by shell material & mass. So a clear 1-ply will sound a bit different depending on the particular drum, but the basic description is a good starting place.

Currently, on my Blaemire toms, I'm using Evans Strata1000, and on my Vistalite toms, EC2 clear.

Here are the Blaemires, no EQ, outside, recorded at distance with a digital camera's mic. I'm not sure what heads are on there, but they sound pretty impressive under those circumstances. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FX7vUyHsPbY I've since put the Stratas on and did some studio recording with them, and they sound wonderful!

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Old 01-08-2019, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by cutaway79 View Post
Has anyone here tried just cutting a small hole in their bottom tom heads, and pointing the mics toward/slightly inside the holes, like a bass drum? What were the results?
I've never tried it myself, but I've seen that done.

Larry Mullen Jr used to do that in the early/mid 80's

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Old 01-08-2019, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

I recently bought a set because I play a lot unmiked and wanted that projection, also love that they nest. I can fit a 10/12/16/20 kit in one case!

My biggest gripe is that, contrary to popular belief, I actually find them less forgiving to tuning than double-headed drums; especially on larger toms it's really easy to end up with a gross "bowwww" sound if you aren't careful. I'm also no maven when it comes to tuning, to be fair...
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:16 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by cutaway79 View Post
Has anyone here tried just cutting a small hole in their bottom tom heads, and pointing the mics toward/slightly inside the holes, like a bass drum? What were the results?
I've seen pics of Jim Gordons studio kit with holes in the tom resonant head.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

Does Evans make a retro screen for toms? If so, you could really get the concert tom sound with the double-headed look.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
Does Evans make a retro screen for toms? If so, you could really get the concert tom sound with the double-headed look.
I bet that's coming very soon. I've noticed more and more drummers showing interest in concert toms lately. I'm thinking a comeback is right around the corner.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Does Evans make a retro screen for toms? If so, you could really get the concert tom sound with the double-headed look.
Why not just put mesh heads on the reso side?
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

Projection and less overtones are immediate advantages.
Out of round and tuning can be problematic in future or already onset by the time you obtained drums due to lack of support of rimming bottom of the drum.

Why cut the heads? - just take them off and remove rims and rods. Save your heads in case.

I love the look, and sound of concert Toms. They have a vintage look that is very time specific.

I do agree with Mustion about the “bowwww” sound that gave me a chuckle.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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I do agree with Mustion about the “bowwww” sound that gave me a chuckle.
Seriously. I don't know how to work around that... other than using hydraulics, which kind of negates the benefit of increased projection (but sounds oh sooo thumpy)
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Projection and less overtones are immediate advantages.
Out of round and tuning can be problematic in future or already onset by the time you obtained drums due to lack of support of rimming bottom of the drum.

Why cut the heads? - just take them off and remove rims and rods. Save your heads in case.
A lot of lugs rattle when not under tension. So then, you'd have to remove all the bottom lugs too, leaving a bunch of exposed holes. Also, leaving the hoops/cut heads on offers more bearing edge protection than just leaving them exposed. In addition, as you mentioned, leaving the bottom hoops on will help to keep the drum in round.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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A lot of lugs rattle when not under tension. So then, you'd have to remove all the bottom lugs too, leaving a bunch of exposed holes. Also, leaving the hoops/cut heads on offers more bearing edge protection than just leaving them exposed. In addition, as you mentioned, leaving the bottom hoops on will help to keep the drum in round.
I love the look of concert toms but HATE the look of double-headed toms with no bottom head and a bunch of superfluous lugs...
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:00 PM
cutaway79 cutaway79 is offline
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by Mustion View Post
I love the look of concert toms but HATE the look of double-headed toms with no bottom head and a bunch of superfluous lugs...
Sounds like mesh heads on the bottom could be the answer if you have a two-headed tom, but want a concert tom.
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  #26  
Old 01-09-2019, 01:00 AM
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

I don't see concert toms listed on Gretsch's or Yamaha's websites. Yamaha does have concert toms on their percussion site, but they're only offered in one finish. If Yamaha ever offers proper concert toms in choice of finishes, I'll be on board. I love concert toms. I had a huge set of Pearl back in the 70s.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
I don't see concert toms listed on Gretsch's or Yamaha's websites. Yamaha does have concert toms on their percussion site, but they're only offered in one finish. If Yamaha ever offers proper concert toms in choice of finishes, I'll be on board. I love concert toms. I had a huge set of Pearl back in the 70s.
I doubt we'll go back to the days where they're standard catalog items but I'm sure they'd make them as a special order.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:49 AM
cutaway79 cutaway79 is offline
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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I doubt we'll go back to the days where they're standard catalog items but I'm sure they'd make them as a special order.
You never know. This stuff goes in cycles. I've definitely seen more concert tom talk than usual lately on the forums I frequent. I'd guess that concert toms will get popular again within the next 5 years... If acoustic drums are even still a 'thing' in 5 years.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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I doubt we'll go back to the days where they're standard catalog items but I'm sure they'd make them as a special order.
Oh I definitely think they'll be regularly offered stock tom toms eventually. They make especially perfect sense for beginner or kids' sets. All it will take is for some famous drummer to use them on a regular basis.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:00 AM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Oh I definitely think they'll be regularly offered stock tom toms eventually. They make especially perfect sense for beginner or kids' sets. All it will take is for some famous drummer to use them on a regular basis.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

Sorry, I should have said talented famous drummer...



Seriously though, it needs to be a drummer who ONLY plays concert toms. Not double headed toms with the bottom head removed, or someone with both concert toms and double headed toms. I'm talking Phil Collins circa 1976 level concert tom exclusivity. Peter Criss circa 1977. Gil Moore of Triumph back in 1979.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Concert style tom's

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Oh I definitely think they'll be regularly offered stock tom toms eventually. They make especially perfect sense for beginner or kids' sets. All it will take is for some famous drummer to use them on a regular basis.
I agree. And with how popular all those portable kits seem to be, I'm really surprised people haven't fully jumped on board with the stackablility of concert toms. I think it's just a matter of time though.
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