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  #1  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:36 PM
Mike_In_KC
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Default Double bass opinions

None of the music that I like to play "requires" double bass pedals - let's get that out of the way first. I would like to play fast doubles with my right foot and can - sometimes - but they are not controlled nor are they consistent. More work is needed - probably?

Notice I did not start that first sentence off with "So" - if that bit of verbal finesse attracts any experienced blues drummers, then mission accomplished.

On to the issue. I have a friend who I would consider to be a good drummer - he's been playing for ~10 years, plays in a band that gigs etc etc. While not a pro he has chops that I do not yet posses, so he has been somewhat of a go-to guy for me as I have had questions and issues related to drumming. While at his place the other day I was noodling around on his kit - which he graciously allows - messing with the two kick pedals and enjoying it. I asked him why he has a double bass - his music really does not require two pedals. He basically said that he does it to "cheat" - he can't get doubles with one foot so he decided to add a second pedal.

After seeing my friend's use of his pedals I'd like to know if anyone else has taken this short cut.

MM
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  #2  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:40 PM
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Wavelength Wavelength is offline
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Learning to play double strokes is one of the easier things to achieve on your path. There's no reason to cheat whatsoever -- anyone can do it. If your mate hasn't learned them during the ten years of playing, he really should get cracking with it. It's one of the most fundamental things to have in your toolbox.
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  #3  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I see plenty of drummers use two pedals to play the intro to "American Band" for instance or Bonham stuff. Is that cheating? Maybe, but who really cares? The crowd certainly doesn't. So there's no shame there.

Having said that though, i pride myself in playing a single pedal for all it's worth. I work everyday on my constant release and the Jojo "Heel / Toe" foot technique to the point where doubles are fast and fairly easy to pull off. I'm sure if your friend put his mind to it and spent some time on them, he could get them going.
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  #4  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:54 PM
Mike_In_KC
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

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Originally Posted by Wavelength View Post
Learning to play double strokes is one of the easier things to achieve on your path. There's no reason to cheat whatsoever -- anyone can do it. If your mate hasn't learned them during the ten years of playing, he really should get cracking with it. It's one of the most fundamental things to have in your toolbox.
It has been a pain in the a$$ so far for me to learn. I know I need to keep working at it but it is so frustrating not seeing the hard work pay off in the way it has for other skills I have worked to develop and am still developing.

I see the idea of a double pedal looming like the devil on my shoulder - the angel is saying "bust your ass woosie boy" but the devil is saying "get the pearl demonantor direct drive double with the tama cobra clutch and you will sound like BONZO man!"

ugh
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Hmm, I guess I can see where the 'cheat' would be an easy thing to do. But having grown up on a single pedal and learning all that technique stuff, I look forward to having a double pedal screw me up on when to use it. Or it may be unused and unloved.

On the other hand, is it cheating? He learned how to do certain things that way, and if it works for him, does it matter? The only problem is if he sits in on somebody's set that only has a single pedal. But then again, if he was suddenly confined to just playing four on the floor, he'd probably get hired after sitting in!
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2014, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I pride myself on my very quick single pedal work.

I used to play a bit of double kick but that was solely for metal stuff that you can;t actually do with a single kick. Using a double kick to do things that you should be doing with a single kick... Nahhh. I know the audience probably wouldn't know or care, but I, the drummer, would if I were doing that, and that's what counts.
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  #7  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Double bass always seems to be a topic people have strong opinions about. Although I'm not sure why.

If it suits you to play it, fine.

If if doesn't, fine.

Double bass can come up in situations where you least expect it, and is played by people you might not think do. As outlined here:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=69243

"cheating" is subjective. If the music notes sound right, that's what matters. Guitar players use loops and harmonizers to play more than one part at the same time. Recordings are often done with multiple takes, cuts, edits, or even session musicians, and not only is it not called cheating, it's been commonplace since the muti track recording was invented.

I have some cartilage damage in my right ankle. I can play doubles ok with one foot, but there is a point where that's all it can give me. But it's never really come up as an issue to where I felt I would have "cheat" with my double pedal to play a single bass part.
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:37 AM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Double bass pedal allows me to do lots of fills. And do the regular on (KKLR) much faster then with a single pedal. I am also a leftyplaying right handed, so my right foot isn't my dominant one. Call it cheating , it sounds better to me and they come out a lot better.


You also do double bass fills by doing rlkkkk or lrlrkkkk ,or rlrlkkkk while doing cymbal bells on the kkkk (you hsnd's keep on doing rlrlrlrl). You can add all kinds of things.
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

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Originally Posted by drum4fun27302 View Post
Double bass pedal allows me to do lots of fills. And do the regular on (KKLR) much faster then with a single pedal. I am also a leftyplaying right handed, so my right foot isn't my dominant one. Call it cheating , it sounds better to me and they come out a lot better.


You also do double bass fills by doing rlkkkk or lrlrkkkk ,or rlrlkkkk while doing cymbal bells on the kkkk (you hsnd's keep on doing rlrlrlrl). You can add all kinds of things.
How 'bout kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkklkkkkkkkkkkkkrkkkkkkkkkk, or lllllllllllllllllkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkrrrrrrrrrrrrlkkkk kkkkkkkk ;)
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I find I absolutely need to "cheat" at times (using 2 pedals for short, fast patterns when I know it should be done with a single) but my excuse is not having a beater or batter head to rebound off!
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  #11  
Old 03-19-2014, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
How 'bout kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkklkkkkkkkkkkkkrkkkkkkkkkk, or lllllllllllllllllkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkrrrrrrrrrrrrlkkkk kkkkkkkk ;)
Going to be tough to slide that l and that r in there !!!!!
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2014, 02:35 AM
The SunDog
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I've been playing for over twenty-five years and I bought my first double pedal just two years ago. I can play some things with one foot that most can't. There are some things that simply cannot be played with one pedal.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2014, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Even Bozzio "cheated" back in the UK days, rigging his single pedal to bounce back when lifting his foot, getting two beats for one. I think he commented something about why not let equipment work for you. Single, double, just like others have said - people in the audience just care about the music not about the technique necessarily.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2014, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I got a double pedal quite early on, but after a while of using it I decided it felt like cheating and that I didn't want to play the sorts of things it made easy to do. I was a militant single pedal player for several years after that before joining a metal band and absolutely having to use two pedals, at which point I gained an enormous respect for the people who've mastered that art as it is one of the most extraordinary technical challenges in drum kit playing.
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2014, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Using two feet on the bass drum is no more of a cheat than using two hands on the snare.

That argument prob came from guys who were a bit too proud of their single foot technique.

Double bass has its place in music and solo drumming and it's not just for screaming angsty teenagers. I recommend you get one and start working on it, you will find a use for it.
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2014, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dre25 View Post
Using two feet on the bass drum is no more of a cheat than using two hands on the snare.
Well... you do cheat yourself out of a valid technical and musical ability.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2014, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Or you could learn to play it both ways. All it can do is give you more options and foot control. I don't "cheat" when playing the beat, but I will use the hell out of it doing Bonzo triplets and such.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
How 'bout kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkklkkkkkkkkkkkkrkkkkkkkkkk, or lllllllllllllllllkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkrrrrrrrrrrrrlkkkk kkkkkkkk ;)
Haha, I'm learning this!
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2014, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

We could play most music with one stick...but we don't.

I see the use of my feet as the same...be able to but consider the txture of each when selecting....as they DO NOT sound the same.

Things to choose from...more variety available to me the better.
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  #19  
Old 03-21-2014, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
We could play most music with one stick...but we don't.
The difference is that the two sticks have plenty of different sound sources -- the two bass drum beaters both create virtually the same sound. Two kick drums or a double pedal are essential for fast rolls, bursts and / or rudimental patterns, but plain old solid double strokes can be achieved with a single pedal just as well.

http://youtu.be/8P2DBuZ3Al4?t=27s
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  #20  
Old 03-21-2014, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I'm all for anyone who wants to use both feet on a bass drum or drums ..... there are definitely advantages if you desire a certain sound

but most young players get so intrigued by what they hear some drummers doing with two feet on a bass drum that they completely abandon one of the most expressive pieces of the instrument .... the hi hat

to often the hi hat is relegated to a being a time keeper and it is such a shame because the colors and inflection that can come from that instrument have a much wider range than a single drum

so this is just a reminder that while you are having fun with your sweet double bass drum licks remember that other pedal connected to those two cymbals is a pretty special little secret waiting to be unwrapped

so special to me in fact ... that I abandoned my double pedal about 7 years ago to dedicate my left foot to is exclusively and have not looked back or missed it for one second

I have nothing at all against the double pedal.....I had one attached to my bass drum for 20 years and spent countless hours working on the skills to keep it efficient and tasteful ..... I just find no use for forcing applications for it while playing music that does not call for its services but does in fact benefit from the colors of the hi hat

just a little seed of thought to plant in your double bass travels

.... on the subject.... I also see many young drummers play with two bass drums pieces that really should be able to be played with one.... I don't consider it "cheating" in a sense that they are pulling one over on anyone..... but I find they may be in the long run cheating themselves out of things they could have developed early on by not relying on two feet what they could have done with one all along
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  #21  
Old 03-21-2014, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
I'm all for anyone who wants to use both feet on a bass drum or drums ..... there are definitely advantages if you desire a certain sound

but most young players get so intrigued by what they hear some drummers doing with two feet on a bass drum that they completely abandon one of the most expressive pieces of the instrument .... the hi hat

to often the hi hat is relegated to a being a time keeper and it is such a shame because the colors and inflection that can come from that instrument have a much wider range than a single drum

so this is just a reminder that while you are having fun with your sweet double bass drum licks remember that other pedal connected to those two cymbals is a pretty special little secret waiting to be unwrapped

so special to me in fact ... that I abandoned my double pedal about 7 years ago to dedicate my left foot to is exclusively and have not looked back or missed it for one second

I have nothing at all against the double pedal.....I had one attached to my bass drum for 20 years and spent countless hours working on the skills to keep it efficient and tasteful ..... I just find no use for forcing applications for it while playing music that does not call for its services but does in fact benefit from the colors of the hi hat

just a little seed of thought to plant in your double bass travels

.... on the subject.... I also see many young drummers play with two bass drums pieces that really should be able to be played with one.... I don't consider it "cheating" in a sense that they are pulling one over on anyone..... but I find they may be in the long run cheating themselves out of things they could have developed early on by not relying on two feet what they could have done with one all along
THIS! The Hi-Hat is an amazing instrument that ought not be neglected. And yes i do feel the same way about people using double pedals to do things that a single pedal would suffice for. I dont have a problem with people doing it but in the long run think they would probably benefit from learning the technique to do without the double pedal. Of course the sound is the thing so as long as it works for the music i'm cool with it.
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  #22  
Old 03-21-2014, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I myself have difficulty with single double strokes on the foot...i use the heel toe method and can actually do triplets and quads like jojo mayer but the volume is not as loud as I believe it should be...i have been trying to get the slide technique going because the double strokes are louder and more powerful...unfortunately I can only get the doubles in spurts and I feel like it takes alot of effort to achieve..I do play double bass and feel that I get the best of both worlds...you get power and volume and you also build up your left foot which gives you a ton of options that using a single pedal wont give you...perfect example is how weckl and colaiuta use their double bass...i luv weckl's triplet fills and how he incorporates his double pedal into alot of them..i disagree when people say the music they play doesnt use it...you can fit double bass into any type of song if you wanted...think electronic beats, dance beats, rock, metal etc...probably the only genre you wont see it is in jazz but otherwise like i said it can be applied to alot of diff types of music. So I will say I dont look at it as cheating but you should have some kind of single bass doubles technique..options are important.
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  #23  
Old 03-21-2014, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I have no interest in double pedals at all. Never have, never will. Part of it is purism but mostly to me a double pedal is simply in the way of the hihat pedal, whose use I value way way more.
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  #24  
Old 03-21-2014, 09:14 PM
drum4fun27302 drum4fun27302 is offline
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Default Re: Double bass opinions

I love my double bass pedal and the way I look at it is " because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it " . And it goes for every instrument/cymbal/note there is.
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