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  #41  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Hmm, I would say I'm a naught, more that I have minimalist inclinations.

Your comment suggests that RnR excess described you pretty well ;-)



Almost no one can replicate the feeling of 5-6 tom fills with just two toms. They could do cool alternative things but ti wouldn't be the same. Also, in classic rock and metal there's also appearance to consider ...
Sorry for the "I'm rushed" typo. For the sake of clarity, you are a very naughty girl ;)

You got my point about extracting many tones/pitches out of few toms. I've only ever met one drummer personally who could do that. His mastery of touch & position on each tom was unreal, & was beyond anything I could hope to achieve.

Good point about appearance too. It's not really on my radar, & certainly not a component of my OP, but it does matter. The stage set does influence audience perception. That often makes me wonder what a jazz festival audience thinks when they first see Simon Phillips's kit at a Hiromi gig!

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Only person who has to care is the one playing them.
True, but my band takes quite an interest in both my sound & my setup. They're unusually good at picking up changes, even small ones, & quite vocal if they don't like something.

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Originally Posted by Bad Tempered Clavier View Post
I think it's fine to fly the flag for having lots of toms [especially if one is in the business of making and selling drums ;)]
Ooooo, that's not even a factor in my thinking, but I see how you could come to that conclusion. Every customer we've ever had has a defined setup in mind before they even speak to us.
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  #42  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
....
True, but my band takes quite an interest in both my sound & my setup. They're unusually good at picking up changes, even small ones, & quite vocal if they don't like something.
....
I didn't mean that in a negative way Andy. I meant it more from the vantage point of what business is it anyone else to decide what anyone should and should not play. If someone wants to play a cocktail set or an 18 piece set, let the one who's playing it decide for themselves.

The crew I work with also takes a large interest in what I'm playing in terms of tone (both drums and cymbals) and how responsive each of the elements are at various dynamic levels - especially when we are playing very quietly.
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  #43  
Old 06-17-2013, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
I didn't mean that in a negative way Andy. I meant it more from the vantage point of what business is it anyone else to decide what anyone should and should not play. If someone wants to play a cocktail set or an 18 piece set, let the one who's playing it decide for themselves.

The crew I work with also takes a large interest in what I'm playing in terms of tone (both drums and cymbals) and how responsive each of the elements are at various dynamic levels - especially when we are playing very quietly.
I didn't take that negatively at all. Quite the opposite in fact. I was just pointing out that my band (especially the guitarist) take a real interest in that stuff, so what I do has implications outside of just pleasing me. I find that quite refreshing actually :)
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  #44  
Old 06-17-2013, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by dmacc View Post
I was about to type the same sort of thing as this...........

Only person who has to care is the one playing them. I think people are ignorant and arrogant if they believe having less or more voices to work with enhances or diminishes someone's abilities. Ridiculous.

I play a 4 piece for a few reasons. I'm lazy - don't want to carry more. It's cheaper - less drums to buy and maintain. I'm small in size so setting up more drums isn't comfortable for me to work with.
You bring up an interesting question: Is the size of one's kit in any way correlated to the size of their body? When Fleetwood comes out front during concert to play his little cocktail kit, he looks gigantic (well, he is gigantic). Are there any small drummers who play outrageously big kits? Are they overcompensating for something? On the other hand, Abe Labriel Jr is a very big dude, and he plays a basic 4-piece kit, although the individual components seem to be large....
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  #45  
Old 06-17-2013, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

Really? I come on the forum this morning and once again, freakin Andy has to start crap with a cleverly disguised big kit vs. small kit debate. When will the mods wake up and ban this guy for good!!! well, one more cup of coffe should do it i guess, anyway, I love playing my one up 2 down set up and dont see myself setting up more toms than that again. I have a pile of dums to choose from with a 9pc and a 12pc sitting at home, im just not into lugging it to gigs anymore. One copmliment i got ( from a drunk viking it looked like) was when he came up to me while tearing down and said he was surprised i was only playing a 5 piece, he swore i had more drums by the way i made them sound so who knows. See the crap Andy starts?!?!
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  #46  
Old 06-17-2013, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
You bring up an interesting question: Is the size of one's kit in any way correlated to the size of their body? When Fleetwood comes out front during concert to play his little cocktail kit, he looks gigantic (well, he is gigantic). Are there any small drummers who play outrageously big kits? Are they overcompensating for something? On the other hand, Abe Labriel Jr is a very big dude, and he plays a basic 4-piece kit, although the individual components seem to be large....
I play a one up one down kit and I'm absolutely gargantuan in size.
I'm pretty limited and play punk rock music which is similarly limited in it's demands.
So it's cool for me.
I love to see a large kit but I couldn't play it...I'd just get confused as happened when I tried two toms down...just threw myself off trying to do too much.
Can't stand to see shows like Jules Holland though when you get like the Stereophonics up to play Dakota with a kit which is large enough to bang off a full Iron Maiden set on...I find that just a tiny bit pretentious...
But...to each their own.
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  #47  
Old 06-17-2013, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

I'll stick with the good ole 5 piece 2 up - 1 down setup. Is it cool? Not really... Is it minimalist? Nope... I like it though :)

I play a 4 piece in church, it fits the music perfectly. If I had a matching 16", I would probably toy around with it, but I don't dream of having a bigger kit at all.
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  #48  
Old 06-17-2013, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
You bring up an interesting question: Is the size of one's kit in any way correlated to the size of their body?
Well, there are plenty of metal guys who keep up a tough body image and play big kits. Ryan Van Poederooyen has.a pretty big kit and he's sort of large. Of course, though, Mike Mangini is a tiny man and plays a ridiculously large kit.

I'm decently tall and I play a 5/6 piece with plenty of cymbals at home, and a 4pc at gigs generally. Maybe I'm just a caste-jumper.
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  #49  
Old 06-17-2013, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
You bring up an interesting question: Is the size of one's kit in any way correlated to the size of their body?
I don't think so.

Simon Phillips isn't a big guy, despite playing an enormous kit.
I remember meeting Mickey Dee, and I was shocked how short he was given I've only ever seen him behind monster sized kicks with huge rack toms.

On the other hand, Tommy Igoe seems pretty tall, and tends to favor small drums.

Abe Labriel Jr is just in a class all by himself.
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  #50  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
Really? I come on the forum this morning and once again, freakin Andy has to start crap with a cleverly disguised big kit vs. small kit debate. When will the mods wake up and ban this guy for good!!! See the crap Andy starts?!?!
Hahaha, I knew I could rely on you for a scathing attack ;) ;) ;)

I must reign everyone in here, unlike the above claims from the old hyde git, the intention was absolutely not to orchestrate a big kit vs. small kit debate. It's more about my personal evaluation of whether I'm getting musical & artistic benefit from using more than two toms. I've concluded that, in this band context, I am.

Car packed up & ready to haul out to tonight's band rehearsal WITH A 4 PIECE KIT!!!!!!
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  #51  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I've only ever met one drummer personally who could do that. His mastery of touch & position on each tom was unreal, & was beyond anything I could hope to achieve.
Actually, you could get there too. You're not going to like how to get there, though. It requires that you ditch your other toms and practice getting new tones out of fewer, and do it all the time so you're not tempted back to the old "down the toms" deal.

It's surprising how much you can do with just dynamic changes on the same drum; let alone the other factors you mention like position you hit on the head, and how the stick it angled.

I might suggest attempting to do a "traditional" tom roll, but do it on one head, and make sure the tone gets deeper with each note of the fill. I actually see a lot of guys incorporate these things into their snare rolls, but everyone forgets when they move to the toms.
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  #52  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
old hyde git
[/b]
hahaha git!!! I have never been called a git!!! I actually always wanted to referred to as :
A henchmen, thug, sidekick, drinking buddy, golfing buddy,HRH,Master spy, something along those lines. Git, thats funny!!
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  #53  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

i like this.

It is a bit discouraging to think that some people may think i'm unskilled because i enjoy the company of a few extra toms :(
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  #54  
Old 06-17-2013, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

Quote:
It's more about my personal evaluation of whether I'm getting musical & artistic benefit from using more than two toms.
yeah...i sort of joined the debate instead of answering the question, lol.

You are using them musically, and in good taste. I do firmly believe, however, that you could be just as musical with less, as could I....with lots and lots of practice :)

Toms are often less practiced than snare, kick, and cymbals...utilized for fills mostly. There are a lot of ways, like the Dr. said, to pull sounds out of a tom, varying the sound of each hit...I think I'm gonna go home and practice my tom-work :)
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  #55  
Old 06-17-2013, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inneedofgrace View Post
You bring up an interesting question: Is the size of one's kit in any way correlated to the size of their body? When Fleetwood comes out front during concert to play his little cocktail kit, he looks gigantic (well, he is gigantic). Are there any small drummers who play outrageously big kits? Are they overcompensating for something? On the other hand, Abe Labriel Jr is a very big dude, and he plays a basic 4-piece kit, although the individual components seem to be large....
I must be compensating then because I look even smaller behind my zep kit.
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  #56  
Old 06-17-2013, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

I couldn't go past a 2 up 2 down set up. I like the 4 toms because if you tune the toms right you can sort of replicate timpani sounding parts. For instance, I am trying to play moto perpetuo by Elliot Carter on drum toms, but the order of the toms is reversed >_>.
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  #57  
Old 06-17-2013, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Ooooo, that's not even a factor in my thinking, but I see how you could come to that conclusion
No need to be bashful - remember:

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Closing

I'm assuming that the sound of that vid just came from the cam rather than the desk and even so they sound fantastic!
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  #58  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
You're a very naught girl
Now you just wish that was a nonexistent comment...

... or ask yourself "Why don't my compliments work on women?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Also, in classic rock and metal there's also appearance to consider ...
... or hiding behind a huge kit, being a naught type of drummer can have an effect on your ego.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I was just pointing out that my band (especially the guitarist) take a real interest in that stuff, so what I do has implications outside of just pleasing me. I find that quite refreshing actually :)
I say it's more than refreshing, it's unheard off... such behavior from a guitarist... unless is an ex-failed drummer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Simon Phillips isn't a big guy, despite playing an enormous kit.
Is the size thing egocentric related, not that Simon Phillips needs it... but I might :)

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Originally Posted by Sparkboss View Post
It is a bit discouraging to think that some people may think i'm unskilled because i enjoy the company of a few extra toms :(
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  #59  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

I saw a band on TV the other day with 10,000 toms and the drummer never touched even one tom :)

less is less...admit it....drumming is all about freedom, not about any rules if there is any- Keith Moon, 1975
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  #60  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
The type and quantity of the drums that a drummer plays has nothing to do with their creativity.
I agree, creativity comes from the drummer, not from the drums, Simon Phillips has a kit which is the opposite of Jojo Mayer's kit, but both drummers are equally impressive in the creativity department.
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  #61  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

If I sold drums I'd want people to be into having lots of toms too ;0)
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  #62  
Old 06-18-2013, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Actually, you could get there too. You're not going to like how to get there, though. It requires that you ditch your other toms and practice getting new tones out of fewer, and do it all the time so you're not tempted back to the old "down the toms" deal.
Great reply, & one I've thought about in some depth. The clips I posted were just selected at random, but I actually go up the toms at least 20% of the time, & much more frequently than that, select patterns within my tom selection. I agree that it's completely possible to tease different tones from toms, & use those differences to add voices greater than the number of toms. I frequently use both dynamics & head position to alter timbre, including rimshots & glancing the head. Where I lack skill, is in combining those in a single fill. Still, all of that said, no amount of tom mastery can emulate significant pitch variations afforded by multiple toms. Whether such pitch variations add musically to the piece is a whole different discussion.

Using subtle nuances & changes to emulate pitch variation or add voices is a noble pursuit indeed, but specifically in my band gigging context, such options are lost in a very big band sound, so multiple toms is the most direct route to getting the job done in a way I want it to be presented.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Old Hyde View Post
hahaha git!!! I have never been called a git!!! I actually always wanted to referred to as :
A henchmen, thug, sidekick, drinking buddy, golfing buddy,HRH,Master spy, something along those lines. Git, thats funny!!
A username change to "Ald Git" is therefore mandatory, your Royal Highness ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Tempered Clavier View Post

I'm assuming that the sound of that vid just came from the cam rather than the desk and even so they sound fantastic!
Thanks, yes, straight from a Zoom Q3 camera, although the bass drum camera sound will have benefitted from some FOH bottom end spill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumaphobic lurker View Post
I say it's more than refreshing, it's unheard off... such behavior from a guitarist... unless is an ex-failed drummer.
Never picked up a pair of sticks in his life. He is, however, not only a superb guitarist, but a great musician. As such, he takes a strong interest in anything that contributes to the overall presentation. Frankly, the best guitarist I've ever worked with, & such a humble guy too :)

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Originally Posted by Liebe zeit View Post
If I sold drums I'd want people to be into having lots of toms too ;0)
Hahaha, nice poke ;)
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  #63  
Old 06-18-2013, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

I've been using a bop sizes four-piece lately. I do miss the second rack tom, but just having a 12" rack and 14" Floortom actually sound nice, is a joy.
I've never played out with more than a six piece kit, but in my experience with previous multiple tom setups, tuning can be hard work.
Nowadays with the 10, 12, 14, 16, ensemble, sonic separation is easier to achieve.
I've never been able to get 18 and 16 Floortoms to sound good side by side.
I'd love one of these huge setups you see on facebook, but that would be a permanent fixture in my drum studio, if I had one!
As I get on in years, it's more about portability and playing in the song, rather than doing exciting fills!
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  #64  
Old 06-18-2013, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by randomrod View Post
I've never played out with more than a six piece kit, but in my experience with previous multiple tom setups, tuning can be hard work.
I'm with you on the getting older thing :(

I never go beyond a 6 piece either. My 8, 10, 12, 14, 20 is very compact too, yet affords me a very flexible range. I used a 4 piece for practice last night, & even when hanging everything off two stands (including the 14), it's stage footprint is larger than my rack based 6 piece.

As for tuning, I get your point there too. More toms = more work. That said, I'm so used to tuning for multiple situations/rooms/demo's, etc, it's not a difficulty for me.
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  #65  
Old 06-18-2013, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

I make no judgements on a drummers kit, large or small. I think the genre does play into it a bit though. And if you are doing covers of Rush and Van Halen it can come across as missing something if you do not have something smaller than a 12" tom.

The most important person to judge ones drums is oneself. If you feel good behind it and it looks good to you then it IS good!
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  #66  
Old 06-18-2013, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

Judging drum set sizes seems ridiculous to me. At the end of the day, you either can play, or you can't. And Andy, you can play.

Also, Andy, if there's anyone who puts thought into his drums and what he needs out of them, it's you. I mean, nobody can make a four piece kit sound like a Peart's or Bozzio's. I would be pretty disappointed if Neil played all those runs around the drums that start on a 6" concert tom and end on an 18" floor tom on one drum.

Rock on with the 6-piece, my man!
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  #67  
Old 06-18-2013, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

My philosophy is that whatever makes you happy! Drums are, after all, supposed to be fun to play. If you play a certain style and it requires more or less, then there you go. There is no right or wrong. You as a drummer should NEVER have to defend your setup, the idea of having to do so is just crazy to me! I have just as much fun playing a 4 piece kit, as well as a 6 or more piece kit.

I also find it to be a lot of fun playing on other people's setups. Sometimes you find something about theirs that you like! Always have an open mind and a pair of sticks.
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  #68  
Old 06-19-2013, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by drummer-russ View Post
if you are doing covers of Rush and Van Halen it can come across as missing something if you do not have something smaller than a 12" tom.
Yes, that high end just has to be there :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
Judging drum set sizes seems ridiculous to me. At the end of the day, you either can play, or you can't. And Andy, you can play.

Also, Andy, if there's anyone who puts thought into his drums and what he needs out of them, it's you.
Rock on with the 6-piece, my man!
Thanks for the props :) Of course, I'm rocking the Spauns right now (out of necessity). Great drums (as hopefully you can hear on the camera footage), but I'm already getting very excited about the new Guru set that will appear soon (ish). Now there's one hell of a lot of thought gone into that!!!

Scoop: it's a 6 piece, but minus the 8", & two toms the same diameter :)

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Always have an open mind and a pair of sticks.
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  #69  
Old 06-19-2013, 03:39 AM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

I like all of the options, from big kit to 4 pc to no kit. A smaller kit can surely force you to be inventive/more expressive to do more with less, but I'll take that a step farther: two sticks on a picnic table also represent the same opportunity. Having the ability/vocabulary to make music totally stripped down like that really gives you options wen you add more colors.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, progressive rock can really benefit from the complimentary orchestration a big kit can offer. When I was playing with Neal Morse I had 5 toms, two sets of hats, multiple china types and they all had their place to compliment some other parts within the music.

That said, I usually play a 4 piece with ride/hats and 1 or 2 crashes and hype doing a lot with that. It's rare that I'm left wishing I had another color to hit playing that set up.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by BillBachman View Post

On the opposite end of the spectrum, progressive rock can really benefit from the complimentary orchestration a big kit can offer. When I was playing with Neal Morse I had 5 toms, two sets of hats, multiple china types and they all had their place to compliment some other parts within the music.
"Orchestration", that was the blindingly obvious term I missed out. Thanks Bill :)

Put simply, I can readily identify the role each kit element contributes. Just about the only piece that doesn't entirely justify it's real estate is the big china, although it is used on about 4 songs in the set. Maybe the wind chimes fall into that category too, but they're used on 5 songs. Neither essential of course, but their contribution is noticeable on those songs.
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  #71  
Old 06-19-2013, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Originally Posted by mwmak5 View Post
I completely agree. The number of toms really does not effect how good or creative a drummer is. Music is about freedom, so why should a drummer who loves his instrument have to be limited as to how many toms he can play? Personally, I have tried many different sizes of drum kits... 4 piece... 3 piece... 5,6,7,8,12, you name it.

I've even played gigs with nothing but a snare drum and a bass drum. But that is beside the point. I believe that if you are going to at least use the entire drum kit a little bit, then you may use how ever many toms you want. Although a lot of drummers say that a 4 piece makes you a more creative drummer, just because a drummer uses 3 or more toms does not make him lazy. A drummer should use how ever many toms he feels he will use, but not more than that. Personally I believe the 4 piece is definitely the most EFFICIENT of drum kits, but certainly not anymore "creative" and "innovative" than any other size drum set.
I agree. The idea that a 4pc makes you more creative or a larger kit causes you to over play is nonsense. If you don't have the discipline as a player you will neither be more creative on a small kit or more controlled on a larger kit. The number of drums is irrelevant
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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I agree. The idea that a 4pc makes you more creative or a larger kit causes you to over play is nonsense. If you don't have the discipline as a player you will neither be more creative on a small kit or more controlled on a larger kit. The number of drums is irrelevant
I think the idea is that less drums can make you more creative because there are less "drum" possibilities, so you have to use your mind and skills to come up with more mental things. I understand the logic, sometimes it is nice to break down to a hat, snare, floor tom setup and see what you can come up with. Where, if you have a huge kit, you have tons of "drum" possibilities, therefore you don't think about doing more with less. However, it depends on the drummer as well, because there are super creative guys out there, on all kits.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:39 PM
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I agree. The idea that a 4pc makes you more creative or a larger kit causes you to over play is nonsense. If you don't have the discipline as a player you will neither be more creative on a small kit or more controlled on a larger kit. The number of drums is irrelevant
This is a load of crap. Having less to "work with" forces most people to be more creative with what they do have. I've seen it countless times.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

I like almost all drums and drum sets. I nearly always choose to play four drums. Peace and goodwill.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

Andy - I knew you and Sticks had more in common that you were leading us to believe. :)
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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This is a load of crap. Having less to "work with" forces most people to be more creative with what they do have. I've seen it countless times.
So in this theory, a guitar with one string is better than a guitar with six? Should pianists use a three octave keyboard instead of a full piano? Painters only use two colors and one brush? Architects be limited to 8x8x16 CMU blocks?

I'm sorry but creativity is in the individual, not the tool. A creative person will be able to expand their creativity with an expanded tool set, and should not be limited to a certain set of parameters.

Creativity should not be forced.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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So in this theory, a guitar with one string is better than a guitar with six? Should pianists use a three octave keyboard instead of a full piano? Painters only use two colors and one brush? Architects be limited to 8x8x16 CMU blocks?

I'm sorry but creativity is in the individual, not the tool. A creative person will be able to expand their creativity with an expanded tool set, and should not be limited to a certain set of parameters.

Creativity should not be forced.
Exactly. The limits of a human being is within one's self. No matter the size or lack thereof. Now, I play a six string bass. In the talkbass forums, most see it as completely unnecessary, I see it as more options to creativity. Are the wrong? No; But they certainly aren't right. :P
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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Creativity should not be forced.
Absolutely. This less-is-more horseshit really does get tiresome: I couldn't care less if someone recorded their last album in one day on just hats, snare, and bass with no overdubs and everyone crowded in one room so they only had to use one mic and get everything in one take and the drummer used some old rusty kit that everyone laughed at when he brought into the studio but with his special voodoo-drummer magic he made it sound magical blah blah blah . . .

Let's be honest - the only people who endlessly bang on about how using a 4-piece kit makes you play better are the ones whose favourite drummers typically had that configuration at their disposal when they learned to play almost a century ago and stuck with it. Well guess what? Buddy Rich is dead, Elvin Jones is dead, Joe Morello - dead . . . time moves on, you know. These days drummers have options that extend beyond trap-trays and low-boys and the vast majority of drummers who have come after the likes of Morello et al ain't ever gonna be anywhere near as good as them whether they play one piece or 20 - so don't pretend that it was the drums that made those drummers what they were . . . "4" is NOT the magic number.

Seriously, these people should all club together to buy a Flux Capacitor so they can sod off back to The Good Old Days.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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So in this theory, a guitar with one string is better than a guitar with six?
What? No, we're talking about totally different instruments. The base "6 string" is really all you need to be creative on a guitar. Most folks don't worry about more strings, or double necks, because they don't need all the extra crap. Sure, once in a while, some people like to whip out the double-neck guitar and get creative with that, but for almost any application, all the extras are just distractions and un-needed.

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Should pianists use a three octave keyboard instead of a full piano?
Should we keep comparing melodic instruments to percussion?

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Painters only use two colors and one brush?
Monochrome imagery most certainly spurs creativity in a lot of people. Ansel chose black and white long after he could have used color for his prints. It allows you to take out the extras and be more mindful and creative with the tones you have.

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I'm sorry but creativity is in the individual, not the tool.
To an extent. All I'm saying is that restraints and limits can push creativity much farther than "more, more, more" in a lot of people.

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A creative person will be able to expand their creativity with an expanded tool set, and should not be limited to a certain set of parameters.
Unless they want to use those limiting parameters as a spring-board for even more creativity.

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Creativity should not be forced.
Nonsense. Taking the path of least resistance and avoiding forcing yourself to do things differently in your creative path is a mistake in my view.
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Last edited by Dr_Watso; 06-19-2013 at 08:05 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: In defence of multiple toms.

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What? No, we're talking about totally different instruments. The base "6 string" is really all you need to be creative on a guitar. Most folks don't worry about more strings, or double necks, because they don't need all the extra crap. Sure, once in a while, some people like to whip out the double-neck guitar and get creative with that, but for almost any application, all the extras are just distractions and un-needed.

Should we keep comparing melodic instruments to percussion?

Monochrome imagery most certainly spurs creativity in a lot of people. Ansel chose black and white long after he could have used color for his prints. It allows you to take out the extras and be more mindful and creative with the tones you have.

To an extent. All I'm saying is that restraints and limits can push creativity much farther than "more, more, more" in a lot of people.

Unless they want to use those limiting parameters as a spring-board for even more creativity.

Nonsense. Taking the path of least resistance and avoiding forcing yourself to do things differently in your creative path is a mistake in my view.
A six string guitar with 22 frets has 132 sound choices. Are you saying that because a guitar is a different instrument its qualifications as a creative tool differ than that of the drums? Or is it because guitar players are "real" musicians so therefore they are allowed more choices?

The piano IS a percussion instrument.

Try explaining Ansel to Picasso, who not only used paint in his art, but other media such as glitter. Does that make him less creative? Ansel is a photographer, BTW, my example was of painting. Apples and Oranges in your thinking. Don't agree, see your comment about guitars above.

Yes, limits can push creativity in some, or create frustration in others that can't achieve their creative goals without a complete tool set. Try writing a book using only four words.

How is having a drum kit with more than 4 pieces "the path of least resistance"? Its not. On the contrary, the 4 piece IS the path of least resistance. No matter how bad ass your chops may be, you still only have 4 sounds. Buy claiming to have to "force" yourself to be creative, you are actually tossing creativity out the window and have now entered into the world of thought, and calculated movements are not creative.
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