Frustrated with Instructor and Drum school. How NOT to run a business.

NYDRUMMA

Senior Member
This is a super long rant and I apologize in advance, but I don’t know any other drummers, so nobody else cares or talks to me about it. I just felt a need to vent. LOL

I am very serious about learning to drum. For a year I have messed around with drums. I can play OK over music and I can cover a lot of easy songs. What I really want to do is LEARN TO PLAY to me covering isn’t really playing. I want to make my own music. I want to learn to read music. I have a drive and work ethic also. Plus I feel that at 33 I need to make up for lost time. So I needed to look for lessons.

I started lessons 6 weeks ago. What a pain it was to find an instructor in the first place. The first one cancelled the first two lessons ( the 2nd when I was on my way there) so I looked for a new one. Then next few places locked you in at a specific day and time and that’s it. Monday 8pm or find someplace else. I finally found a drum school with 3 instructors and lessons throughout the week. Perfect they are very flexible and even let you move your lessons to different days if necessary. Prices are very reasonable 140 a month for 1 hour lessons. I also signed my son and daughter up and they split their hour. We also can go at the same time. Very convenient.

After 6 weeks some things I have noticed have become annoying to me. I don’t own a business, but I know how I would run one. I am also a good judge of character and can read people and body language easily. When I met the owner and he told me about the place and showed me around I was impressed with the layout and the facilities he gave me the rundown on pricing and then topped it off with the old “Money isn’t what I’m looking for, really I just charge enough to keep the lights on.” Followed up by “I just want to spread knowledge of music and drums to people.” It’s fine if you mean that, but if you don’t, then DON’T SAY IT! Ever notice how phony people sound when they are acting out a line.

I know there is some truth to what he said but I think the REAL truth was keeping the lights on. Two days later I go to the website and see that kids 10 and under are $100 a month and get a free T-shirt and drum sticks. No big deal about the shirt and sticks. The extra $40 dollars he charged me for the month was annoying. I could see that maybe business wasn’t too good so I thought he needs the cash so what the heck lets give it a shot before I complain. Well frustrations are mounting.

Well, I decided now to do a log on the Drum Lessons I’m taking. I figure this way I could track what’s being given to me and where I stand. I also started a practice log to monitor the time I’m spending on certain things. My instructor so far is very inconsistent. I think this could be a problem with young drummers he is about 22 years old. Here’s what I’ve been bothered by so far.

I thought because I have a young drummer that he would give me too much to do. It’s exactly the opposite. Not enough for me to work on. I find more work to keep me busy on youtube and websites. Not only that these are the things that annoy me about my lessons so far:

He seems to just “wing it”. He doesn’t come prepared with a plan when he comes in. Usually the work he gives me is thrown together right before I leave. Often just hand written on a sheet of paper. One week all I was given was a 2 measure 16th note fill that doesn’t fit into music that I listen to very well. Another week he gave me a hand speed workout. Doubles and singles that’s it.

Rudiments are important right? He has yet to give me a single one. I have stick control by George Stone and work on them on my own.

Never asked me what my goals were.

Never asked my what type of music I like. Isn’t that important? Couldn’t you gear my groove lessons toward the type of music I want to be playing?

I have a folder with my music sheets and things to work on that he’s given me. Shouldn’t he also have one? I come prepared for work. Shouldn’t he? And after 6 weeks it is 3 music sheets. One of which my daughter has advanced to play. I’m by no means a good drummer but I can sure play better than my 10 year old.

I’ve started a practice log and a lesson log. Shouldn’t he have a file on me? Weaknesses, strengths, progress etc?

The owner told me that he could get me a deal on a drum set. I was told to email my instructor with sets I would be interested in. A week later and all he told me was that he got the email but hasn’t looked into yet. Now I didn’t pester him or beg him for a deal. I hardly mention anything. It just speaks volumes about professionalism. I could have just bought one from Craigslist by now.

Doesn’t have a progress chart for me, doesn’t seem to give me much feedback on what progress I’ve made.

Doesn’t give a reason why I am doing a particular beat sheet as opposed to another. Or what I should use the beats for. Or even the type of music they are for.

Tells me it’s ok to text him outside of the lessons with questions. When I do, minimal response. I really feel like I’m annoying him. Just to put in in perspective, I have taken six lessons from him and sent a total of 15 texts over 4 occasions. So really I have texted him only 4 times. Not even once a week. Nuisance? I would hope not. Forget email he never responded to the one I sent him.

Last lesson he started me on a beat. Naturally I struggled to pick it up right away. Mostly because I’m just learning to read and count music. He then sat down to show me how it is supposed to sound and couldn’t do it right either. Now I’m not doubting his ability as a drummer. I have heard him play and he is good. However, as an instructor, shouldn’t you be prepared to teach the material you are about to present? Shouldn’t you have knowledge of it. When I teach at work I don’t just read a powerpoint and tell someone how to do something without knowing it first. I can’t know everything, but I damn sure know what is on the powerpoint.

So far I have taught myself more than what he has taught me. Now it wasn’t that long ago when I was 22 so I know what the problem is. He hasn’t had a REAL job yet and doesn’t know how to put the work in to be good at his job. However his youth also tells him that he is AWESOME at his job and has no concept of self critique.

As far as the owner, what a shame. He has pretty good facilities, a great location in an affluent town (which I drive 45 minutes to get to) with zero competition. This is the only drum school in the area. His oversight and management skills are minimal at best. Since he took my money I have seen him several times. Not once has he asked me how the lessons are going. What is even more annoying is he hasn’t asked my instructor either (trust me, I can tell). What makes the situation even worse is that HE HAS NO IDEA HOW THEY ARE GOING. Shouldn’t the instructors be submitting lesson plans, progress reports, training reviews, assessments or even attendance logs. Oh, wait there is an attendance log, of course that is because cancellation policies that could cost them money. I mean you do advertise yourself as a school right? Can you imagine a high school that didn’t have some kind of documentation process or lesson plans or progress reports. Or a principal who could care less about his students.

I’m not going to leave the place it is the most convenient in terms of flexibility. It is also the only school in the area. However I made sure the second month was only $100 dollars for my kids.

This is just an example of how NOT to run a business. Again I don’t work in the business field or own a business I just like efficiency. This is inefficient. Good thing that I can do my best to make the most out of it.

Since I started lessons I have practiced at least 3 hours every day. I probably average close to 5. I have not played XBOX, watched much television at all and even got rid of my personal cell phone to have the extra $140 a month. I have also spent much more quality time with my kids practicing and listening to music. I found something that I truly love and I am much happier for it. Even my wife notices.
 
Well - some things sound right and some things sound a bit odd. As a teacher myself, I can analyze a student's strengths and weaknesses within a matter of minutes - or seconds.

As far as a lesson plan, I have one that I use for beginners. But I don't have an individual folder for each student. As a business owner of Johnson Drum Instruction, I do keep contact information and always answer emails or phone calls the day I receive them (unless it is after 9pm).

Every teacher has his/her own method of teaching. But I do feel that the fundamentals should be covered such as:
  • Reading and technique on snare drum/drum pad.
  • Knowledge of musical terms and symbols.
  • Coordination and styles on drum set.
  • Play along recordings to simulate musical situations.
  • For students that are (or will be) in school band, mallet percussion should be addressed.

As far as being a businessman - EVERY drummer should learn that the business side of music is of utmost importance.

Jeff
 
That sounds really frustrating. As a teacher myself, you sound like the perfect student, someone who is very interested in learning and dedicated enough to practice 3 hours a day. For a beginner, I like to start off with exercises from the syncopation book, introduce some rudiments, and throwing in some drumset beats and fills, getting progressively more difficult each lesson. I would find another teacher in order to maximize your progress.

-Kris
 
This is difficult, not knowing exactly what is taking place. You say you have been playing for a year. Usually people who have played for only a year do not yet have the knowledge to judge themselves. Yet it seems to me you have already done so. That you can perform an exercise to your liking does not mean you have developed the fundamentals of that particular exercise. You may indeed require more work to get a real handle on it.

However I do not know this and am not giving an opinion either way.

As for keeping worksheets on each student? It is good to keep a diary but I do not really bother with detailed sheets, I know each of my students and their levels. And I can pretty much instantly evaluate a new student.

As for providing sheets for management of student progress? When the school has 500 students per week this is simply not logical nor logistical. The shop would have to hire separate experts to read the sheets for each instrument, drums, percussion, guitar, keyboards, bass etc etc and report to management who are busy with sales and who may not be qualified teachers. Then each of these experts would have to learn about the goals of each student, "Is Johnny serious?" and so on. Only the teacher is in the class room one on one.

No rudiments you say, but you have been practicing doubles and singles. Are you ready for anymore after 6 weeks?

It seems to me the only way you can know the quality here is to try another instructor.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
I forgot to mention it may be an idea to express these concerns to your teacher.
 
Hi NYDRUMMA

I read your post very carefully and come to the only conclusion:

they don't like you!

That's not your fault. It's just a gap between your professionalism and their mentality.

They can't or don't want accept advise from a beginner student and have a big laugh all together behind the curtains.

They don't want or like your suggestions.

They are young - you're older. I just can feel it in every word.

Bernhard
 
Last edited:
As an instructor at two music schools, I agree lot of the things you ask for make sense, but might not be as feasible as you think they are. I've had plenty of lessons with bad instructors, guys who were fantastic players but couldn't teach. I paid $150 for an hour lesson with a guy who was an absolutely phenomenal drummer, but my lesson with him turned out to be him soloing the whole time. He came up to me at the end and said "Practice that." Don't I get sheet music for any of the concepts? I've also had fantastic instructors who break everything down into ways that make sense to me, and they've tailored the instruction to my particular style of play, and where I wanted to go.

You're right. A good instructor should be knowledgeable, not necessarily perfect, of the material that he or she is presenting to you. If I'm teaching a student how to play a rhumba clave over a bossa ostinato, I should know how to play it myself.

However, report cards and progress reports, depending on the number of students, might not be as reasonable as you think. If it is just the owner and his instructors, that's a LOT of work, especially the school has many students. The place that I work at has 10 instructors, and over 300 students. I have 50 of them. It's difficult to keep track of all 50 students, on paper, without going crazy and putting in HOURS of extra work. For one thing, we just don't get paid enough to be motivated to do that. As wy_yung said, a team of more experts would have to come on to judge the progress, and in order to give you affordable rates, that just isn't possible to do. If we brought in those people to give you the reports, your "tuition" would be hiked an extra $10-15 dollars per lesson. Would you still go for lessons from the 22-year old drummer if you were charged say, $30-45 a lesson instead of $15-20? I doubt it.

I do, however, keep track of what my student is doing. Each of my students has an exercise book, which is basically just a pad of sheet music. I begin with a basic progression of drumming fundamentals (being able to play basic rudiments), then moving on to basic beats (4 on the floor, simple rock beats, etc), and then move on basic fundamentals of different styles, and the applications of rudiments to different styles. Your teacher should keep track of what he's giving you, at least in your head.

But, think of it this way. Who is the expert on drums? Maybe your teacher doesn't feel as if you have a solid enough understanding of the concepts he's already given you to feel confident enough to move you on to something more complicated. If he's given you some basic exercises, maybe it's because he wants to read them well before moving you on to reading more complicated things. You did say reading was one of your issues, am I correct? Now I'm not trying to bash you as a drummer, you could be a late-blooming prodigy for all I know, I'm just trying to offer an opposing view.

You also said he hasn't given you any rudiments, but you have done exercises for doubles and singles. Those are the basis of all rudiments. Any rudiment you will ever play is a combination of a single stroke or a double stroke. He probably wants you to be able to play those well before moving you on. I do that with my students as well.

As far as your attendance logs and such goes, I have to submit one for each day at one of my schools, so the school knows that you've showed up so they can pay me. The other school assumes everyone shows up unless I tell them otherwise, in which case, they book a make up lesson if I allow it. Different schools have different policies on attendance. There should be communication going on between teachers and owners. An owner should know that his teacher is doing his job, and vice versa.

My advice to you? Talk to your instructor and speak with the owner. Be calm, but present your case and why you feel the way you do. That's all you can do, really.
 
Thanks for the replies. I guess it sounds like a bit of whining, but I haven't addressed any of this with my instructor yet. I guess I am a little off base with some of my expectations. I could as for more homework and see what that amounts to haha. I just want more to do. Looking up things for myself is probably the wrong thing to do. Often I just find a video or a sheet of music and just pick something I think is on my level. It's time consuming also.

I practice what they give me hard. I use a metronome on a set. I also use the one connected with my electronic kit. I turn the sound off on the drums so It's like playing on pads. The kit also has a monitoring system that tells you if you are hitting too early or to late. I use the setting that if you play a certain amount of measures with great accuracy it speeds up the bpm.

That has been very valuable. I start very slow and read the music and try to play as low as 40 bpm. On most beats I can make it up to about 130 bpm by then I am playing by feel as I haven't come close to reading at that speed yet. Haha. I can learn new beats pretty quickly and most every night I run through about 2 or 3 that I have learned and work on timing and speed. Then about every 3rd or 4th day I try a new one I spend as much time as it takes to learn I usually learn it in about 30 minutes at about 40 bpm. Then I work my way up for a few hours. Then I visit it again in the morning after a workout and before work for about 30 min. Right now I'm doing linear grooves and fills.

Thanks again.
 
Thanks for the replies. I guess it sounds like a bit of whining, but I haven't addressed any of this with my instructor yet. I guess I am a little off base with some of my expectations. I could as for more homework and see what that amounts to haha. I just want more to do. Looking up things for myself is probably the wrong thing to do. Often I just find a video or a sheet of music and just pick something I think is on my level. It's time consuming also.

I practice what they give me hard. I use a metronome on a set. I also use the one connected with my electronic kit. I turn the sound off on the drums so It's like playing on pads. The kit also has a monitoring system that tells you if you are hitting too early or to late. I use the setting that if you play a certain amount of measures with great accuracy it speeds up the bpm.

That has been very valuable. I start very slow and read the music and try to play as low as 40 bpm. On most beats I can make it up to about 130 bpm by then I am playing by feel as I haven't come close to reading at that speed yet. Haha. I can learn new beats pretty quickly and most every night I run through about 2 or 3 that I have learned and work on timing and speed. Then about every 3rd or 4th day I try a new one I spend as much time as it takes to learn I usually learn it in about 30 minutes at about 40 bpm. Then I work my way up for a few hours. Then I visit it again in the morning after a workout and before work for about 30 min. Right now I'm doing linear grooves and fills.

Thanks again.

I wouldn't say that learning on your own is a bad thing. I pick up a LOT of things by going online, but I still take lessons. What instructors do is lay a foundation for you to get creative with. There is no "definitive" way to play the drums. If you watch different drummers, they are vastly different stylistically. I play paradiddles a little differently than other drummers. My hand technique is different than someone else, because I've experienced different things. That doesn't necessarily make it wrong. It's just what works for me. My strokes still sound even, I'm still using my fingers. What you could do is share the things you've looked up on your own with your instructor. If he's any good, he'll show you what you're doing right, and what you're doing wrong.

Just out of curiousity, what was the groove that he showed you that he couldn't play?
 
Just out of curiousity, what was the groove that he showed you that he couldn't play?

It looked like this

1----e----&----a----2----e----&----a----3----e----&----a----4----e----&----a
K---H----------S----S---H----------K---K----H---------K----S---H-----------K

Granted when he tried the metronome was at 60bmp so it probably was hard for him to slow it down. He did acknowledge though that he should go back to it and that he needs to go back and practice playing slower. He also told me to spend most of my time at slower speeds and that it will help me get faster (which I find to be true). It helps me find the feel or what it's supposed to sound like.
This one I still have trouble with I've probably spent 5 hours on this one this week.
Initially I would lose the feel at about 80 bpm. Now I can get to about 110 but i have a hard time keeping that consistent feel.




1----e----&----a----2----e----&----a----3----e----&----a----4----e----&----a
H---S----K---------S----------H----S---H----K---K----S----H---S----------K

I can get this one locked in all the way to 130 bmp then I lose the feel for it. I can keep up but it just doesn't sound tight when I go faster. I like the sound of this one.
 
Last edited:
I think you made a bad decision with this teacher. What are his credentials?
It doesn't sound like he has the knowledge or the interest to be teaching.
Is he just in this so he doesn't have to work while he tries to make the big time with his band?

I live in Central NY and we have a lot of qualified teachers. You need to search around and find a better fit for your situation.
 
I think you made a bad decision with this teacher. What are his credentials?
It doesn't sound like he has the knowledge or the interest to be teaching.
Is he just in this so he doesn't have to work while he tries to make the big time with his band?

I live in Central NY and we have a lot of qualified teachers. You need to search around and find a better fit for your situation.

I don't know what his credentials are. Now that you mentioned it I never asked. I guess I can ask him. Should be a fair question. Or I could just ask him how he became a teacher.

He seems like he has an interest in teaching however it seems like he hasn't quite learned how yet.

Thanks to this forum at least I have someone to help me judge. I guess much of my expectations are too high. Much of it stems from being new to lessons. I automatically assumed I would get a better experience from a drum school rather than from an instructor at a music shop.

The good thing is that for my situation it is a good fit. It's the only place that I could find where my kids can take lessons with me. I go in for an hour and during that hour they each go for 30 minutes. All other places we would have to go on separate days.

I guess patience is something I need to exercise.
 
As an instructor, I agree with a lot of the other instructors in here that your first post in here gave me a mix of "oooh, that's bad" and "well, what does this guy expect," moments. I do keep a sheet of paper with very minimal notes about every student, but mostly I track progree in my head. I feel that if I was to sit and write out a ton of stuff during the lesson, you'd be paying me to write about you, rather than teach you. I have some of my students learning from basic beginner books, but I often come up with their homework towards the end of the lesson, and handwrite them, because it is based on what they are struggling with. There isn't one path to learning drumming...some things come easier to people, and some things are harder. I adjust as I see my student play, and trust that my knowledge will be able to come up with (either spontaneously create, or just remember and re-write from my past) exercises that help with whatever weakness I see from lesson to lesson.

The biggest issue I see stems from communication. He didn't ask where you were at, how much work you want to do, what styles you are most interested in, etc. I think the fact that your lessons have lacked that is the biggest problem, and that communication would really help most of your problems. He SHOULD be the one to communicate with you, but fortunately, communication is a two way street, so you can step it up on your end and see how he responds. It's sometimes hard for teachers to not just throw the minimum at students, because frankly, most students don't even work hard enough to get the basics down. Not saying that's right, or fair, but it is something I see all the time.

Final thought for now: as has been mentioned by others, don't assume that just because you think you can do something well enough, that you are truly good enough at it to move on. You have mentioned 130 bpm as the metronome marking you can get to with most beats. That's honestly not very fast...most rock songs are faster than that. I'm not knocking where you're at, but a lot of instructors choose to focus on a few small things, and get you to a point where you are REALLY good at them, before moving on to other things. You don't need to work on paradiddles if your singles and doubles are still slow and not well executed...because a paradiddle is just a combination of singles and doubles. The best way to learn anything is to get a really solid foundation in the basics, and then move forward. It sounds like you want to embrace everything at once, which I totally get, but which can also end up making you a very sloppy, half-educated player if you're not careful.
 
I think you made a bad decision with this teacher. What are his credentials?
It doesn't sound like he has the knowledge or the interest to be teaching.
Is he just in this so he doesn't have to work while he tries to make the big time with his band?

I live in Central NY and we have a lot of qualified teachers. You need to search around and find a better fit for your situation.

Yes, NY has no shortage of good drum instructors, and certainly no shortage of master drummers. If you live on the island, give me a call if you continue to get frustrated.
 
If I lived in New York I'd be visiting everyone. How I dream of that.....

Now that I have read that the instructor cannot play at slow tempos, that makes me feel you can do far better. The groove is easy.

You're in New York. get out there and find a GREAT teacher. The place is a gold mine.
 
I guess I shouldn't put NY in front of my screen names anymore. I actually live near Buffalo. I think people always assume NYC. LOL happens to me all the time on XBOX.
 
You should easily find a good teacher in your area. I travel to Syracuse to bring in my son. He studies with the professor at the community college. You have Buffalo State music dept, Buffalo Symphony, and tons of other people.
 
Back
Top