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  #201  
Old 03-25-2014, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

For over 30 years, the track 'Fred' has been a part of the soundtrack of my life (thanks to Phil Collins.)

Was it ever documented anywhere as to what kit and cymbal set up he used to record it? Possibly a long shot, but I'd love to know.
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  #202  
Old 03-26-2014, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

There's a relatively bad sounding but musically incredibly powerful bootleg of the New Lifetime Band, from c. 1976 at the Village Gate. With A.H. on guitar, obviously. If you've listened to Believe It! and liked it, check it out. It's the same thing but on steroids!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuban View Post
For over 30 years, the track 'Fred' has been a part of the soundtrack of my life (thanks to Phil Collins.)
Phil Collins sure knows his drummers, is there a story behind this? :D That is, Phil being one of my early and biggest influences and Tony being a later idol with all the Joneses, Erskines and such. I really love Tony's imagination, chops, relentlessness and ride cymbal sound/clarity. However, the later jazz stuff and some of his aesthetic choices during the Yellow Drums -days are still over my head.

(BTW, here's something I did to One Finger Snap some time ago. I hope you like it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlwY8yW5fHE )
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  #203  
Old 03-26-2014, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Pedro Benecol View Post
Phil Collins sure knows his drummers, is there a story behind this? :D That is, Phil being one of my early and biggest influences and Tony being a later idol ...
I toured with Genesis & Phil in the early 1980's and Tony Williams was a regular played by Phil. His drumming was a big influence on Phil, who also introduced me ( as a young teenager ) to Pat Metheny and many other great artists.

Ironically, 30+ years on, I now work for Phil's son Simon Collins, an incredible drummer, singer, musician & producer in his own right. Check out his band Sound Of Contact, (we head out on tour on Friday). Talk about a chip off the old block!

Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.
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Last edited by Cuban; 03-26-2014 at 12:59 PM.
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  #204  
Old 03-26-2014, 01:19 PM
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Pedro Benecol Pedro Benecol is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Cuban View Post
I toured with Genesis & Phil in the early 1980's and Tony Williams was a regular played by Phil. His drumming was a big influence on Phil, who also introduced me ( as a young teenager ) to Pat Metheny and many other great artists.
Wow! Were you a drum tech or something? I'd love to hear some stories from the road, although I do have the "Chapter & Verse" -book as well as the Genesis studio albums.

Tony and Phil do both have that "push" and playing on top of the beat -style to them. Saw Genesis on the Turn it on Again -tour and even though I've always admired Chester Thompson (the Zappa stuff etc) as a drummer, the music really took 6th gear when Collins sat down on his kit.

Back to the topic, to whom it may concern, one might want to compare the studio version of Allan Holdsworths "Looking Glass" with Tony on drums, to selected live versions, my favourite being the Tampa Bay '89 -bootleg (can be found easily) where it's the almighty Vinnie C on drums. Although Vinnie kicks ass all the time (the version of Shallow Sea from that gig is the penultimate fusion ripping collaboration ever!), it's the studio version that IMHO packs the most Cojones and dauntless risk-taking stuff, with most of it landing on its feet in the process :D
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  #205  
Old 03-27-2014, 01:23 AM
AllenS AllenS is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

IMO, he's one of the most important drummers of all time. A prodigy, an innovator, and truly ahead of his time.
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  #206  
Old 03-29-2014, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Great to meet up here with fellow TW enthusiasts. Cuban has a question that also wondered me since Believe It was issued. Possibly finding/contacting TW's drum tech at the time could have best answer now, or a family member or more replies here. Don't know contacts for these individuals, but the super engineer & producer Sony/Columbia used on Believe It was Bruce Botnick who really eq'd and captured terrific drum tuning. Fred was also later re-cut by Holdsworth titling song as Kinder. Tony played hihats like no one else, I saw him live many times years ago. Not sure of exact drum/cymbal set up the studio used in recording Believe It, but TW played a particular set configuration at that time with various cymbal combinations. This is info I gathered directly from Gretsch & Zildjian artist relations over the years, so I will pass it along. I hope some of this info helps.
Gretsch USA Custom series drums Solid Yellow Gloss Nitro cellulose gloss Lacquer finish - currently termed TWYL code SPL #69 color finish. Sizes: BD 14 x 24 or at times 16 x 24. SD 6 1/2 x 14 with 20 single lugs and 42 strand wires. TT 9 x 13 and 10 x 14. FT 14 x 14, 16 x 16 and 16 x 18. Silver sealed interiors, chrome shell hardware, occasionally black hardware on drum shells. Up to the 1980's when Gretsch supplied their own stands, he used SD stand #4989, TT Holder #9002, HH #4849, BD Spurs #9011, Cymbal stands #4850 and 4871. The actual SD was #4155. I haven't searched the vintage catalogs to verify these hardware #'s, so I hope the info I was given is correct. Thru the 1970's up into 1980's I saw Tony's kits with different series of Gretsch hardware lines - the TT holders, stands, etc.- usually the top line Gretsch gear live. At times he had drum shell black hardware, but almost always chrome on sets he used. He used clear CS black dot heads on both batter and resonant sides of all drums except the snare-side head, that contributed greatly to his sound with the USA Customs. He had his own stick size made for him, an autographed model at some point, among other similar sticks I'm sure. Now, the elusive and interesting cymbal line-ups...
Tony switched out lots of cymbals for what he felt at the time was right. These are (3) cymbal set-ups he used in later periods, but it may provide some insight into his signature sound and likes.
First set-up - Ride 22 A Custom, Ride 18 K dry-lite. Crash 18 Med-thin (I think A there, but maybe K), Crash 18 A unspecified, Crash 15 A Custom. HH 15 K both bottom cymbals. Splash 8 A and Splash 10 A.
Second set-up - 1994 - Ride 22 K. Crash 20 K Dark, Crash 18 K Dark-med-thin, Crash 15 K Dark. HH 15 K. And, lastly, a variant of these two set-ups ...
Third set-up - Ride 22 A Custom. Crash 18 A Med, Crash 18 A Med-thin, Crash 18 K Dark-thin, Crash 15 A Custom. HH 15 K. Splash 8 A and Splash 10 A.
That's what I've found out, maybe some of this can help and hope it does. TW fans may want to add to this and supply other cymbal set-ups he used in eras closer to the 1975 recording, which is tuff data to find this far along. This info here was obtained from Gretsch and Zildjian.
Frank D.
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  #207  
Old 03-30-2014, 07:26 AM
drmfd drmfd is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Cuban, I just sent a pm to you regarding your question info , Frank D.
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  #208  
Old 03-30-2014, 07:37 AM
drmfd drmfd is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Additional info to my post #211...the 3rd listed cymbal set-up was in 1997, shortly before Tony Williams was gone too soon. Sorry I originally forgot to enter the year for that set-up.
The first cymbal set-up was prior to 1994, but not sure what date there or how long before that. Being that there were A Customs in that set-up, it was TW's later period there, maybe others here can pin the beginning of that date range down better, based on entry of A Customs into the market.
Would like to learn of TW's specific cymbal set-up from 1974 onward to any dates.
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  #209  
Old 03-30-2014, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by drmfd View Post
Additional info to my post #211...the 3rd listed cymbal set-up was in 1997, shortly before Tony Williams was gone too soon. Sorry I originally forgot to enter the year for that set-up.
The first cymbal set-up was prior to 1994, but not sure what date there or how long before that. Being that there were A Customs in that set-up, it was TW's later period there, maybe others here can pin the beginning of that date range down better, based on entry of A Customs into the market.
Would like to learn of TW's specific cymbal set-up from 1974 onward to any dates.
The Zildjian A Custom line was introduced at the January 1992 NAMM gathering.

In 1990, Zildjian ran an ad in which Tony used 15" K Hihats, 18", 15" and 20" K Dark Crashes, and a 22" K Ride. It looks like he used this set-up on the Tony Williams Live In New York DVD (Dec 1989).

I guess Tony played old Turkish K cymbals up until Zildjian started making American K cymbals in 81/82.
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  #210  
Old 07-21-2015, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

For the Tony die-hards: Have you cats checked this out? http://bigozine2.com/roio/?p=1650

Back in the late-1990s, Bill Laswell, who played with Tony in Arcana, was asked by Verve to choose an album from their catalog that he could remaster. He chose Turn It Over, the second Lifetime recording. Bill knew Tony was never happy with the way the record was mixed and that a lot of the music was left off to make it fit on one album (Tony envisioned a double album).

Well, the project was shelved before Laswell could finish, but someone found a way to release them and you can download the album from the link I posted.

For me, it's like discovering the album all over again. It's just a different animal. The production is more rock and roll and it just sounds more bombastic and has more attitude than the original. There are tracks here that were never released, but you realize even the familiar ones had been edited down, because here they are restored here to full length. It's interesting how there are entire sections of these tunes that were just chopped off but you can hear them now. Really very cool.

I just discovered this recently, along with the Barbarians stuff (PM me if you're interested and haven't already checked that out), and it's been playing constantly in my car and on my phone. Hope you dig it.
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  #211  
Old 07-21-2015, 05:36 PM
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Alex Sanguinetti Alex Sanguinetti is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

From the days I studied with Tony Williams in 1987.

Alex Sanguinetti
http://www.alexsanguinetti.com

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  #212  
Old 07-21-2015, 08:20 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Alex, that's amazing. Between you and Anthony, you guys make me so jealous of the musicians you've worked with.
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  #213  
Old 07-22-2015, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Alex, that's amazing. Between you and Anthony, you guys make me so jealous of the musicians you've worked with.
Recently checked out Nefertiti by Miles Davis

LOVE the little(and large) licks on Pinocchio. Had to reply that numbers as soon as it ended.

What a Drummer.
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  #214  
Old 07-29-2015, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Tony Williams was a great and visionary drummer. He really did change everything about how drums could function in a jazz group.

I recently saw these drum clinic videos from 1985, and I was a little surprised by his comments about not using rebound (part 2, 7:15). But Tony Williams is a legend, and should be understood, no matter what he says. I'm still trying to assess what he meant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFCJs_WvsG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x5bAyLvzoE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw2f_n0-h0
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  #215  
Old 12-13-2015, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

There's a Facebook page called "Dirty Old Boston", that shows pictures of the Hub going back to the turn of the 20th century. Somehow, I missed this one from yesterday, Tony's birthday:

"Nestled in its final days between the Whittier Street housing projects, the Boston Police Department and a dry, dead and abandoned lot, Connolly's Star Dust Room seemed at first glance to be an inconspicuous home for one of Boston's most famous jazz venues. Connolly's--where patrons once listened to such greats as Duke Ellington, Coleman Hawkins, Dexter Gordon and Stan Getz--closed its doors at 1184 Tremont St, Roxbury for good on March 1, 1998. The single-story building fragment that was Connolly's was the only legacy remaining from a five story Victorian Gothic Tenement, otherwise demolished in 1959. The building's distinctive sign which read "Connolly's Liquors & Cocktails" spanned 27 feet in width and stood at five feet. It was mounted in 1960. A profile of a martini glass appeared ghostly at the end of Connolly's reign, its neon tubing lost to time. In the autumn of its years, an illuminated "Bud Light" sign was projected over the entry.
This interior shot was probably taken by Boston Bernie Moss and it shows Tony Williams, with Jackie McLean and Ray Santisi at their first gig together at Connelly's Star Dust Room. Jackie took Tony to NYC, introduced him to Miles Davis and the rest is history.
THANKS: Jack Woker, Steve Schwartz, Boston Landmarks Commission and the Harvard Crimson for background information.
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  #216  
Old 12-30-2015, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

I am a big fan of Tony Williams going back to his days with the second Miles Davis quintet. He's that rare Jazz drummer who can also play Rock.
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  #217  
Old 09-03-2016, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9a1RRAKUDg
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  #218  
Old 09-03-2016, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
There's a Facebook page called "Dirty Old Boston", that shows pictures of the Hub going back to the turn of the 20th century. Somehow, I missed this one from yesterday, Tony's birthday:

"Nestled in its final days between the Whittier Street housing projects, the Boston Police Department and a dry, dead and abandoned lot, Connolly's Star Dust Room seemed at first glance to be an inconspicuous home for one of Boston's most famous jazz venues. Connolly's--where patrons once listened to such greats as Duke Ellington, Coleman Hawkins, Dexter Gordon and Stan Getz--closed its doors at 1184 Tremont St, Roxbury for good on March 1, 1998. The single-story building fragment that was Connolly's was the only legacy remaining from a five story Victorian Gothic Tenement, otherwise demolished in 1959. The building's distinctive sign which read "Connolly's Liquors & Cocktails" spanned 27 feet in width and stood at five feet. It was mounted in 1960. A profile of a martini glass appeared ghostly at the end of Connolly's reign, its neon tubing lost to time. In the autumn of its years, an illuminated "Bud Light" sign was projected over the entry.
This interior shot was probably taken by Boston Bernie Moss and it shows Tony Williams, with Jackie McLean and Ray Santisi at their first gig together at Connelly's Star Dust Room. Jackie took Tony to NYC, introduced him to Miles Davis and the rest is history.
THANKS: Jack Woker, Steve Schwartz, Boston Landmarks Commission and the Harvard Crimson for background information.
"
Great picture, I know exactly where that is. Tony must be what 17-18 there? 1963?
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  #219  
Old 01-27-2017, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Cuban View Post
For over 30 years, the track 'Fred' has been a part of the soundtrack of my life (thanks to Phil Collins.)

Was it ever documented anywhere as to what kit and cymbal set up he used to record it? Possibly a long shot, but I'd love to know.
If you look at the back cover of that album, his first tom is most definitely a 12", not the 13" that he used throughout the rest of his career.
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  #220  
Old 01-28-2017, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Over the years much has been written about the various Gretsch kits and K Zildjian cymbals that Tony Williams played. As many of you know, towards the end of his life, Williams made the switch to DW drums. He also decided to go for a whole new cymbal sound. Below this picture of his double bass "Ronald McDonald" setup are the drum and cymbal specs that his tech shared with me. Dig the eye glasses laying on the floor tom :-)



The Stadium Kit
============
-Drums:
2-18x24
1-9x12
1-9x13
1-10x13
1-12x14 floor
1-14x14-floor
1-14x16 floor
1-14x18 floor
6.5x14 Snare-12 lug
4x14 Snare

-The Full Scale A-Custom Cymbal Set:
22" A Custom Ride
18" Med/thin Crash
18" K Pre aged dry lite ride
18" K dark Crash Med/Thin
17" K China Boy –Brilliant Finish
15" Pair-Rock Hat
15” 2-K Bottoms to make 1 pair
15” A Custom Crash
12” EFX #1
10” Splash
8” Splash

and...

The Main Kit
=========
-Drums:
18x24K
9x13
10x13
14x14
14x16
14x18
6.5x14 12 lug snare

-The Smaller Cymbal Set:
22” A custom ride
18” Pre Aged K dry/lite ride
18” Avedis Med/thin crash
15” A custom Crash center of toms
2-15” K Bottoms-to make 1 pair hat
10” Avedis Platinum splash mounted above 18”
8” splash mounted above 18”
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  #221  
Old 09-27-2017, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

I just discovered this and thought I'd post it for interested others. This is Ruben Bellavia performing a transcription he made of a live Tony w/ Miles recording of "Walkin'."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=JN2gQndq89k

WOW!

Among other offerings, it looks like Ruben has a Tony Williams book dropping in January. http://rubenbellavia.com
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  #222  
Old 09-27-2017, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

incredible! i've said it before, i'll say it again. Tony Williams is the greatest drummer to ever play. Not my personal favorite (he's of course up there) but I just don't think that can be denied.
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  #223  
Old 09-27-2017, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=095URl2SJI4

Tony Williams - Live in Stuttgart 1989
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  #224  
Old 09-27-2017, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

I've never to subscribed to the "best ever" debates but I'll tell you this.......There was never anyone like Tony Williams before and there hasn't been anyone like him since. He is absolutely my favorite drummer of all time. The only thing I don't like about his playing is how inadequate it makes me feel about mine. I was fortunate to see him play live with The New Tony Williams Lifetime at a small jazz club in CLE ( The Smiling Dog ), sitting about 10 feet away from him. All I can say is at the very least he was a generational talent. If there was a drummers' Mt Rushmore, he'd be on it.
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  #225  
Old 09-27-2017, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by T_Weaves View Post
I've never to subscribed to the "best ever" debates but I'll tell you this.......There was never anyone like Tony Williams before and there hasn't been anyone like him since. He is absolutely my favorite drummer of all time. The only thing I don't like about his playing is how inadequate it makes me feel about mine. I was fortunate to see him play live with The New Tony Williams Lifetime at a small jazz club in CLE ( The Smiling Dog ), sitting about 10 feet away from him. All I can say is at the very least he was a generational talent. If there was a drummers' Mt Rushmore, he'd be on it.
A "Drummer's Mt. Rushmore"...I like that!

I was lucky to see him in a small/medium size venue in the early 90s and it was the most "embodied" experience I've ever had witnessing a performance. Kind of hard to explain but physically and emotionally, I felt it in my gut, in my body in a powerful way. I've had great concert experiences before and after that but I've never "felt" any of them in quite the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard.Awesome View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=095URl2SJI4

Tony Williams - Live in Stuttgart 1989
Yes, I just watched that the other day. So good! And, evocative of the rich experience I described above.
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  #226  
Old 09-28-2017, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Just turned it on for a second, Ill watch later....but those hands!!!
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  #227  
Old 09-28-2017, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Man, I really wish he was still around. Taken way too soon.

Thanks for posting that video.
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  #228  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Well it has been some years since I posted in this thread, a long tour, new business and ill health saw me off the radar, so my sincere apologies to those I failed to answer. :(

I finally have a wonderful 1980's Gretsch set in my collection and by chance, realised I already had some very 'Tony'-esque cymbals while I now also have one of the Istanbul Mehmet Tony Williams Tribute cymbals on route to complete the set.

With an added turntable and lots of time now on my hands, I listen to a lot of records and drummers, so Tony is very much back in my thoughts.

Thank you to all those that responded about his 'Fred' set, I really do appreciate that.

I have also been wondering of late if anyone know what the likes of Gene Krupa and Buddy Rich made of Tony's playing?

I've seen images of Tony and Buddy together, but know nothing of the interactions.

Would anyone know?
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  #229  
Old 08-11-2018, 05:42 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is online now
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Default Re: Tony Williams

I have no clue Cuban. Im guessing Gene would've have found real appreciation for what Tony did, I bet he'd be scratching his head but admiring and fully respecting what he did. I would imagine Buddy would dismiss what Tony did, maybe admitted he was slightly impressed by his approach but probably felt he could play circles around Tony.

Just my goofy wanting to play along guess. No disrespect meant to anyone, sorry Buddy, please dont come back and karate kick me.

Im ready for my next Tony album. In order I got Believe It, then Tony Williams Lifetime collections, Million Dollar Legs, Learning to Fly, Im probably missing a few. From there I went back and really starting discovering his genius. I have 4 and More and My Funny Valentine. I also have Jackie McClean One Step Beyond and Eric Dolphy Out To Lunch, I want more like that, I love that period of his playing and the style of the music, freaking delicious. I also have Soothsayer I think its called by Wayne Shorter, also love this one. Oh and Maiden Vouyage Herbie Hancock. Just looking for a recommendation, LOVING this journey.

Thanks for reading and any feedback.
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  #230  
Old 08-13-2018, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by J-Boogie View Post
I went back and really starting discovering his genius. I have 4 and More and My Funny Valentine. I also have Jackie McClean One Step Beyond and Eric Dolphy Out To Lunch, I want more like that, I love that period of his playing and the style of the music, freaking delicious. I also have Soothsayer I think its called by Wayne Shorter, also love this one. Oh and Maiden Vouyage Herbie Hancock. Just looking for a recommendation, LOVING this journey.

Thanks for reading and any feedback.
That Blue Note period is my favorite, too. Here are some must-haves:

Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
Andrew Hill - Point Of Departure
Grachan Moncur - Evolution (also Some Other Stuff)
Sam Rivers - Fucshia Swing Song

Also check out Tony's first two dates as a leader (credited as Anthony Williams on most of these dates): Life Time (not to be confused with the later band name) and Spring.

With Miles, you'll want to check out :
E.S.P.
Miles Smiles
Nefertiti
Sorcerer
Miles In The Sky
Filles de Kilimanjaro
Plugged Nickel (essential!)

That should keep you busy (and happy) for a while!
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  #231  
Old 08-17-2018, 07:43 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is online now
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
That Blue Note period is my favorite, too. Here are some must-haves:

Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
Andrew Hill - Point Of Departure
Grachan Moncur - Evolution (also Some Other Stuff)
Sam Rivers - Fucshia Swing Song

Also check out Tony's first two dates as a leader (credited as Anthony Williams on most of these dates): Life Time (not to be confused with the later band name) and Spring.

With Miles, you'll want to check out :
E.S.P.
Miles Smiles
Nefertiti
Sorcerer
Miles In The Sky
Filles de Kilimanjaro
Plugged Nickel (essential!)

That should keep you busy (and happy) for a while!
This is awesome, thank you 8Mile...Im going to get busy listening! (Ive got Nefertiti and Plugged Nickel, but everything else is now on my radar)
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  #232  
Old 09-02-2018, 05:43 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is online now
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Btw 8Mile....your suggestions were amazing! Had a 3 hour ride to the beach and had these with me:

Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
Andrew Hill - Point Of Departure
Grachan Moncur - Evolution (also Some Other Stuff)
Sam Rivers - Fucshia Swing Song

Best three hours in the car ever!
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  #233  
Old 09-03-2018, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

I just recently procured the service of a third floor-tom [14x14] to go along with its two older siblings on my drum kit. I recall back in the day seeing pictures of Tony Williams with his triangular set up on the floor, and thought, that's kind of silly looking isn't it? Well, here I am in the year 2018 now, and loving every bit of those 3-tom's all stacked up similarly like that.

Spent the morning drinking coffee and watching Tony's 1985 drum clinic on YouTube. What a GREAT way to start the day!
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  #234  
Old 09-07-2018, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
Andrew Hill - Point Of Departure
Grachan Moncur - Evolution
Sam Rivers - Fucshia Swing Song


THESE....these have been so amazing to listen to and study. Just on rotation constantly in the car and so wonderful!

Just had to share that, again, cant help it....its the greatest!

Love those old clinics too. Funny I was thinking about one of the Zildjian clinics he did where when he started he played like a 5 minute double stroke roll on the snare and I think it was like 10 mins before he even touched a cymbal. Zildjian must've loved that!
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  #235  
Old 09-08-2018, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by J-Boogie View Post
Herbie Hancock - Empyrean Isles
Andrew Hill - Point Of Departure
Grachan Moncur - Evolution
Sam Rivers - Fucshia Swing Song


THESE....these have been so amazing to listen to and study. Just on rotation constantly in the car and so wonderful!

Just had to share that, again, cant help it....its the greatest!

Love those old clinics too. Funny I was thinking about one of the Zildjian clinics he did where when he started he played like a 5 minute double stroke roll on the snare and I think it was like 10 mins before he even touched a cymbal. Zildjian must've loved that!
do yourself a favor and add Jackie McLean - One Step Beyond to that list

like immediately

some of Tony's absolute best playing ever

every tune is pure fire
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  #236  
Old 09-08-2018, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Got that one! It’s majorly responsible for my obsession with hearing more of Tony from that era. The style and conceptualization of these albums is just monumental. Like these jazz guys gave they’re heart and soul learning and living this gorgeous art then put together their dream team of musicians, capable of comprehending their concepts and contribute in their own brilliant ways. Some of these blue note era albums are the most beautifully conceived wonderfully stylized moody deep masterpieces! And not to geek too far out but I enjoy reading the liner notes. Often they will go track by track explaining concepts and methods employed and for what desired effect. Liner notes have really cleared things up for me in many instances. I want to start exploring Elvin more now. Just the few I have a now Borh Directions, I find myself craving his feel. Another thread, thanks for indulging me...
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  #237  
Old 09-08-2018, 05:23 PM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Heavy Edge View Post
I love when in part two he talks about controling his dynamics which lets him play that big kit and those sticks in any setting, basically saying it is not the drums but the drummer.

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Originally Posted by WhoIsTony? View Post
do yourself a favor and add Jackie McLean - One Step Beyond to that list

like immediately

some of Tony's absolute best playing ever

every tune is pure fire
I just went for a run with the four previous recommendations as well as this Jackie Mclean one, great music and surprisingly motivational.

One of your other tips about playing just the ride cymbal and nothing else for a while did not fall on deaf ears either.

Great stuff Whoistony? !
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  #238  
Old 09-08-2018, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post

One of your other tips about playing just the ride cymbal and nothing else for a while did not fall on deaf ears either.

Great stuff Whoistony? !
Didn't fall on deaf ears here either. I am trying to develop a nice jazz ride pattern. One afternoon isn't nearly enough for me, I need a lot more than that. My real intention is to work on the comping coordination it takes to comp with the other limbs while maintaining the integrity of the jazz ride pattern. As opposed to playing just quarters on the cymbal while comping. Easy trap to fall into.
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  #239  
Old 09-08-2018, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Count me another influenced by both Tony’s. Tony Williams’ doubles got me doing that and all rudiments again. Our Tony the Moanin’ ride- which I’ve added my foot hi hats too. Spang-a-Lang with my foot and hats too- do paradiddkes, doubles , triplets with my foot on hats. My ride hand has been weak for awhile and I note things are crisping up and my swing is starting to swing. Before my swing was like sterno now it’s a good torch - I’m hoping for flame thrower.
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  #240  
Old 09-08-2018, 11:21 PM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Didn't fall on deaf ears here either. I am trying to develop a nice jazz ride pattern. One afternoon isn't nearly enough for me, I need a lot more than that. My real intention is to work on the comping coordination it takes to comp with the other limbs while maintaining the integrity of the jazz ride pattern. As opposed to playing just quarters on the cymbal while comping. Easy trap to fall into.
I worked a lot on the art of Bop, filled with great independance exercices. But now I listen to Tony and find my ride pattern to be lacking clarity.

So I am doing things in reverse, wish I had gone the other way around.

But hey, the independance is getting there, so now I can concentrate only on the ride.

It's slow process in my case like everything drum related, but eventually what I practice extensively at some point down the road becomes natural. No shortcuts possible.
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