I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

Great idea! Or, instead of no heads, they could install "paper" heads that would just serve the purpose of keeping the hoops in place.

That's what I've always thought too.

I look at stock heads as nothing more than a space filler anyway. I've almost always switched them out before I even played on them.

The only stock head I use today is the bass drum reso on my Ludwigs.
 
That's what I've always thought too.

I look at stock heads as nothing more than a space filler anyway. I've almost always switched them out before I even played on them.

The only stock head I use today is the bass drum reso on my Ludwigs.

I always used the stock resonant heads..................only changed the batter. Still today, I only change my resos every few years.
 
Imagine how much money could be saved on shipping if they shipped those drum sets with no heads, shells nested together, with the hoops and hardware in a separate box. Then sell them with a voucher for a free set of heads of your choice.
 
Imagine how much money could be saved on shipping if they shipped those drum sets with no heads, shells nested together, with the hoops and hardware in a separate box. Then sell them with a voucher for a free set of heads of your choice.

My kit came with the drums nested together, and they held the rims secure to the lugs with little rubber spacers around the tension rods, so they wouldn't move. It was pretty genius packaging. The heads were in the same box, on top of everything. They could have just not included the heads. I'm still using the stock kick heads, though. It came with foreign PS3s, and they sound surprisingly good after some dampening.
 
I like how alot of Pearl and Yamaha kits come stock with good USA made Remo heads. Even if they come with Emperors and I want Ambassadors, it's still nice to have a new set of Emperors sitting there to experiment with in the future, use on another kit, etc...
 
It would be nice if drum companies offered an option to purchase a drum with the heads of your choice.

Say I want a 3.5x13" snare from company "X" and want an Aquarian Hi-Energy head. There is no reason that I shouldn't be able to get the drum the way I want when I order it. If Aquarian, Remo, and Evans supply heads to US makers, wouldn't it make sense for the drum manufacturers to have agreements with all 3? It should make no difference what so ever to the drum company what kind of heads the buyer wants, as they sell drums, not heads (yes I know some companies make their own heads). So wouldn't it make sense for company "X" to offer the drum I want with different head choices? It might actually make a consumer more interested in their drum if the buyer could get it the way they want instead of getting something they think they want after a head change. But then the drum may not be what they want, but how would they know if the ability to try a drum set up the way they want is not an option until after purchase?
 
Variation on the OP question re the bad sounds of stock heads--
Can anyone with a Sonor Safari advise if the stock BD reso head needs to be replaced?
I replaced the batter on the 16" BD with an Evans 360 Black Chrome and found it to be very tunable and deep in sound, but to optimize, should the stock reso be replaced, or does this not really affect the sound enough to bother?
 
It would be nice if drum companies offered an option to purchase a drum with the heads of your choice.

That's what many boutique builders offer, and I think it's a good idea for a small company (read: a couple of guys in a garage) that's not buying huigh quantities of heads which might entittle them to special direct-pricing from one head manufacturer or another.

It should make no difference what so ever to the drum company what kind of heads the buyer wants, as they sell drums, not heads (yes I know some companies make their own heads).

It basically doesn't make a difference, although drum companies often have a pricing agreement with one of the big 3, and straying might cause that agrement to be cancelled, and head prices may be higher with another supplier.

DW's heads are made by Remo. Yes, that crimped collar is done by Remo... at DW's request. :)

But in the case of Ludwig, who does manufacture their own heads, they still supply Evans on at least one of their US lines (Keystone) and I suspect they'd put Evans on the other drums if requested.

Bermuda
 
You don't have to be fussy to know that some of the 'cheap' heads are worse than others, even the supposedly non-critical snare side.
Bermuda

Yeah, I agree with you on that... I was very happy to get rid of the stock heads on my stage custom (finally).

I was talking about getting a set of drums with US remo emperors, when your preference is evans g2's (as an example). I'm pretty sure most dudes will play the remos until they're worn out then put the g2's on.
 
I was talking about getting a set of drums with US remo emperors, when your preference is evans g2's (as an example). I'm pretty sure most dudes will play the remos until they're worn out then put the g2's on.

Unfortunately, not everything is going to be 100% custom unless you go with a boutique builder who offers head options (and more.) I imagine guitar and horn players go through the same thing replacing stock strings and mouthpieces, etc.

Bermuda
 
That's what many boutique builders offer, and I think it's a good idea for a small company (read: a couple of guys in a garage) that's not buying huigh quantities of heads which might entittle them to special direct-pricing from one head manufacturer or another.
Bermuda
That choice isn't just open to "a couple of guys in a garage" Jon, it's a choice for all drum manufacturers supplying to customer order. It's a cost thing - period.

I have no issue with drum companies supplying low cost heads. If you buy based largely on price, then guess what, the drum company supplies based largely on price.

We supply exactly what the customer requires. If the customer doesn't state a preference, we supply heads we believe (& have tested as such) represent the broadest talent foundation for the instrument. We have OEM direct pricing from all three main head manufacturers, & those manufacturers are very happy to work with us. Our default head supply is Evans, & on snares, it's G1 coated over Hazy 300 + Puresound blaster wires every time.

The cost difference between main line quality heads & branded Asian sourced heads is very considerable, much more so than the drum buying public realise. Same deal with lugs & other hardware. The multiplier is huge.

With many company retail & distribution models, bear in mind that the price you pay is on another scale compared to material & factored component cost. Applied to the average ply kit production model, that $1,000 kit you buy from the store, has a total component & material cost (including shells, but excluding labour) of around $200. Using that same model, imagine how much a $20 uplift in heads cost makes to the store price. This is why you get cheap heads with many kits.
 
Unfortunately, not everything is going to be 100% custom unless you go with a boutique builder who offers head options (and more.) I imagine guitar and horn players go through the same thing replacing stock strings and mouthpieces, etc.

Bermuda

Guitar was my primary instrument for 25 years and the first thing I did when buying a new OR used guitar was to change the strings to my preferred brand/size. I guess it's different, because it was only like $5.00 for a pack of strings compared to $100+ to change heads on a drum set.

I still like to get "nice" stock heads on kits, whether or not it's the brand/model I use. I chuck them to the side to experiment with later or use as backups. I probably wouldn't do that if they were crappy stock heads.
 
Guitar was my primary instrument for 25 years and the first thing I did when buying a new OR used guitar was to change the strings to my preferred brand/size. I guess it's different, because it was only like $5.00 for a pack of strings compared to $100+ to change heads on a drum set.

Good point about the strings. Not to mention that guitar strings, typically being made of nickel, steel, brass, etc., can oxidize quickly, especially after sitting in a store and being played by numerous people, and there's just not much that can be done about that, because we know that the average person, trying out a guitar, doesn't wipe it down when they're done. I guess the best way would be to just throw in a free pack of your choice with the purchase of the guitar.

Most drum kits don't sit on display for anybody to just play around with, because they take up so much space. Usually there will be a few kits set up, and the rest stacked up in the back on shelves or something. Of course, stacking the drums puts tension on the heads, but they don't have people playing them constantly to kill the tone.

This idea of selling drums without heads is starting to sound better and better. But then, of course, you couldn't really try the kit out at the store, unless maybe they kept a few sets of 'demo heads' on hand
 
I was talking about getting a set of drums with US remo emperors, when your preference is evans g2's (as an example). I'm pretty sure most dudes will play the remos until they're worn out then put the g2's on.

I've always swpaped out stock heads. On all the snares that I've bought, even if it came with a real US Remo, I swapped it out for my usual head.

I usually save the Remo heads for autographs or something.
 
It would be nice if drum companies offered an option to purchase a drum with the heads of your choice.

It would be nice if a fast food restaurant would let you purchase a meal with the cola of your choice (Pepsi OR Coke).
 
I find it hard to believe that stock heads are really as bad as people think. Im sure the manufacturers don't put heads on that make their drums sound like crap, if they did, who would fall in love with the sound and buy the drums? If you like the sound in the store, bring it home and play those heads. If you don't like the sound, your kind of taking an expensive chance ( on the kit and new heads) to see if makes the sound you want when its all changed out. People think the heads they are used to will work on any drums across the board, its just not the case. Drums without heads is a dumb idea. id rather not be hit with the unseen cost of heads when buying a kit. I don't know but does DW put crap heads on their kits? if so, that may explain the glut of used DW kits on the market, everyone thought their new heads would get the sound they were looking for but didn't.
 
I find it hard to believe that stock heads are really as bad as people think.

They're certainly workable and they'll satisfy most beginners until they're shot. But generally speaking, they don't get swapped out for no reason mate. Daylight separates a proper Remo from a Remo UT on an Asian imported kit. The difference is noticeable even to the untrained ear......under the scrutiny of a drummer who's been at it for a while and knows exactly what kind of sound he wants from his drums, there's no comparison. I'd wager the vast majority of experienced players would swap them out immediately. I know I do. You can still gauge the overall characteristics of the drum you're buying, even with crappy heads.....but you know you'll be able to bring it alive by swapping them out.
 
I find it hard to believe that stock heads are really as bad as people think. Im sure the manufacturers don't put heads on that make their drums sound like crap, if they did, who would fall in love with the sound and buy the drums? If you like the sound in the store, bring it home and play those heads. If you don't like the sound, your kind of taking an expensive chance ( on the kit and new heads) to see if makes the sound you want when its all changed out. People think the heads they are used to will work on any drums across the board, its just not the case. Drums without heads is a dumb idea. id rather not be hit with the unseen cost of heads when buying a kit. I don't know but does DW put crap heads on their kits? if so, that may explain the glut of used DW kits on the market, everyone thought their new heads would get the sound they were looking for but didn't.

Every time I've changed from stock heads to a US made Evans or Remo head, I've ALWAYS noticed an immediate and drastic improvement in the sound, even when using the same tuning. Sure, stock heads can sound pretty good, but what really gets to me is their longevity. I had that foreign Remo on my snare for two weeks before it was full of craters. I've never had that happen on any US Ambassadors after months of use. I replaced the foreign head with an Evans G1, and not only does it sound much better, but after about five hours of playing, there is barely a mark on the head. I have all the proof I need to believe that stock heads often suck.
 
They're certainly workable and they'll satisfy most beginners until they're shot. But generally speaking, they don't get swapped out for no reason mate. Daylight separates a proper Remo from a Remo UT on an Asian imported kit. The difference is noticeable even to the untrained ear......under the scrutiny of a drummer who's been at it for a while and knows exactly what kind of sound he wants from his drums, there's no comparison. I'd wager the vast majority of experienced players would swap them out immediately. I know I do. You can still gauge the overall characteristics of the drum you're buying, even with crappy heads.....but you know you'll be able to bring it alive by swapping them out.


if your swapping them out, how did you decide you likes the drums in the first place? certainly not the sound right?
 
if your swapping them out, how did you decide you likes the drums in the first place? certainly not the sound right?

As I said, you can gauge the characteristics of the drum even with a Remo UT on it.....but you can bring that drum alive by using a quality head. After nearly 30 years of buying intermediate kits with stock heads I know that there's a remarkable difference between a Remo UT and a Remo USA. I've proven it to myself time and time again by making the switch.....to the point that I don't even bother with stock heads any more. That is how convinced I am that there's a difference. Never have I had to return a drum because I didn't like how it sounded once I put a quality head on it.....just like no-one ever sent back a car after replacing stock components with performance components. That argument is a bridge too far. It makes it sound better is all. It's worth swapping. This is the first time I've ever seen this disputed. Until now, I thought it was just an accepted fact. :)
 
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