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  #1  
Old 02-02-2019, 01:20 AM
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Default Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

From the new Yamaha Live Custom Hybrid Oak.



This guy's explanation leaves me with more questions than answers.

Putting a sand bag inside a bass drum? What does that do? Other than make it harder to slide forward?

How does weight inside a drum eliminate some of the highs? Is it the weight alone that does the EQing, or does the torpedo shape also have something to do with it?

Can we just start throwing heavy stuff into the bass drum to achieve the same results?

Similarly, the new Mapex Design Lab kits have RE-ring style strips inside the bass that they say gets rid of the boingy basketball sound. Is this a similar concept?



Is this the beginning of a new trend, something that actually works...or is this just a gimmick?
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Seems like a gimmick to me, and one that adds unnecessary weight.
It would have to provide a really dramatic change in sound for it to be taken seriously.

I think that most people who would want to add weight to a bass drum would want to do it their self.
Heads with foam rings reduce highs without adding weight.

Really have to try it out before judging it harshly, but it doesn't seem like something I would want.
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Old 02-02-2019, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

I'm not sure how heavy those weights are in the Yamaha kit, but adding weight to a drum lowers it's fundamental pitch. Watch the latest episode of "sounds like a drum" on YouTube and you can see how tapping the shell without hardware vs with hardware changes the pitch pretty dramatically. This may be what Yamaha is trying to implement with these weights.

As for the re-ring design, I don't know. Maybe it makes a small difference but I'm sure it requires a certain type of shell design to have the desired effect. For example, I font think a 10 or 12 ply bass drum is going to notice a lick of difference with a re-ring in the middle, but a thin 6 ply shell may see a change in it's sound.
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Old 02-02-2019, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

I remember Simon Philips putting a paint pot in his bass drum for a better sound.
Yamaha are known as lightweight, I'm not sure those weights are enough to change anything, but it's true the best bass drums I came across were heavy (Premier Signia, Gretsch Renown, Brooklyn, old Sonors...)

Last edited by Tamaefx; 02-02-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 02-02-2019, 02:07 PM
WallyY WallyY is offline
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

They're probably taking a cue from the Recording Customs with the purposely weighted lugs.

I tested the theory with Scuba weights.
I didn't notice enough of a difference to make an exclamation, although I tested it on a mostly mahogany bass drum with round-over edges and an Emad. It might be more evident on a different drum.
It seemed to shorten the note.
It's possible the effect on the Yamaha could be very different because it's bolted to the drum.
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Old 02-02-2019, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Wouldn't it make more sense just to build heavier shells in the first place then,

rather than build lightweight shells and start adding weights to them after they're done.

I bet they'll say "these weights are strategically added at critical nodal points for dramatically improved low end response"
or something like that.
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Old 02-02-2019, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamaefx View Post
I remember Simon Philips putting a paint pot in his bass drum for a better sound.
He used to. Not many pics of that setup around now. There’s a video of him talking about it, but I can’t find it now.



Once I saw this, I began experimenting with everything around the shop: sandbags, steel plates, towels, pillows, foam rubber. Yes, there’s a deadening of the kick with heavy weights inside; shell vibrations are muted. But my preferred sound was with a couple small pillows.
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense just to build heavier shells in the first place then,

rather than build lightweight shells and start adding weights to them after they're done.

I bet they'll say "these weights are strategically added at critical nodal points for dramatically improved low end response"
or something like that.
Maybe the weights are cheaper than a heavier shell?

Sometimes I forget just how much of manufacturmg is based on bottom line rather than doing what is right.....
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Extra weight - as in adding it to a shell - can affect how the the shell resonates, but there are limits.

The Mapex shell reminds me of laminate flooring. :P

I love Yamaha, but I am not digging the 'innovations' in the new Oak series. Glad I bought a set of Oak Customs when I did. IMO, Yamaha got it right with the first time.
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
Wouldn't it make more sense just to build heavier shells in the first place then,

rather than build lightweight shells and start adding weights to them after they're done.

I bet they'll say "these weights are strategically added at critical nodal points for dramatically improved low end response"
or something like that.
I'm not sure it's about the shell. My bass drum is bloody heavy, but the shell is lightweight. The hardware, the hoops are thick and heavy. I think it's the same for Gretsch : thin shells heavy hardware.

Last edited by Tamaefx; 02-03-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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  #11  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by cbphoto View Post
There’s a video of him talking about it, but I can’t find it now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gUUPNRVISE
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  #12  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

I love Yamaha drums, but those tiny little weights bolted inside the bass drum shells is just an over the top gimmick. BS. And the finishes on the Oak Custom drums make me want to gag. Ugly, ugly, ugly. They look like the kind of finish an inexperienced back yard tinkerer would come up with if given some rough shells and a few rattle cans of Krylon. Yuck.

Come on, Yamaha. Do what you do best - building some of the best drums in the world. Let's have real innovations like the incredible YESS mounts again. And drum finishes that would make the owner proud.

GeeDeeEmm
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  #13  
Old 02-02-2019, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by gdmoore28 View Post
I love Yamaha drums, but those tiny little weights bolted inside the bass drum shells is just an over the top gimmick. BS.
They do extensive research and testing and wouldn't add anything to a drum that didn't enhance the sound in some way. Judging it without hearing it in person is just silly. Calling it bullshit is ridiculous.

What they should have done is created a mini documentary of the research/testing process, comparing the same shell with and without the weights.

As for the finishes, I don't care for them either, but I don't like burst or fade finishes on anything.
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  #14  
Old 02-02-2019, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by sumdrumguy View Post
Extra weight - as in adding it to a shell - can affect how the the shell resonates, but there are limits.

The Mapex shell reminds me of laminate flooring. :P

I love Yamaha, but I am not digging the 'innovations' in the new Oak series. Glad I bought a set of Oak Customs when I did. IMO, Yamaha got it right with the first time.

Nah man, your Oak Customs are obsolete now.
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2019, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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There’s a video of him talking about it, but I can’t find it now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwsvdSVSgSo
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  #16  
Old 02-02-2019, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by Tamaefx View Post
I'm not sure it's about the shell. My bass drum is bloody heavy, but the shell is lightweight. The hardware is heavy. I think it's the same for Gretsch : thin shells heavy hardware.
Ya - I had a Mapex bass drum that was really heavy.
With all the hardware off, it wasn't too much heavier than the norm.
But man - you practically needed a wheel barrow to move that thick, heavy hardware.
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
They do extensive research and testing and wouldn't add anything to a drum that didn't enhance the sound in some way. Judging it without hearing it in person is just silly. Calling it bullshit is ridiculous.

What they should have done is created a mini documentary of the research/testing process, comparing the same shell with and without the weights.

As for the finishes, I don't care for them either, but I don't like burst or fade finishes on anything.
I'm sure any documentary would perhaps give away any secrets in their build. You tube would be the place to find real drummers doing the experimenting.
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Old 02-03-2019, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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TIME STAMP


Simon Phillips puts a gallon paint can filled with sand in each bass drum.

TLDR: He says, and I'm paraphrasing here..."Putting some mass inside the bass drum helps soak up the loose bottom end, and high end ping, making it more controlled and easier to record."
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2019, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Ok, so if a heavier bass drum = better low end. Why aren't all bass drums heavier?

I'm sure there's light bass drums that would throw a monkey wrench into this theory.

Or maybe it's more complicated or conditional...it works with some wood types and not others, or some shell construction and not others. My head hurts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyY View Post
They're probably taking a cue from the Recording Customs with the purposely weighted lugs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the weighted hardware on the Recording Customs designed to control the resonance and decay, to make it easier for recording?

I don't recall them saying the weights contribute to lower fundamental pitches or frequencies.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by IBitePrettyHard View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the weighted hardware on the Recording Customs designed to control the resonance and decay, to make it easier for recording?

I don't recall them saying the weights contribute to lower fundamental pitches or frequencies.
Those marketing videos are usually just salespeople spouting terms incorrectly or adlibbing. Whatever the science was behind the heavier lugs, it made them sound better, that's all I can say. The older Recording Custom bass drums always sucked. The new ones are killer, with low end punch. The toms seem to have a wider frequency response too.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by IBitePrettyHard View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the weighted hardware on the Recording Customs designed to control the resonance and decay, to make it easier for recording?

I don't recall them saying the weights contribute to lower fundamental pitches or frequencies.

I don't think you're wrong.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

I’ll say this. Yamaha moved production to China to save money on production costs. And if you look at the kits they are offering, most of them share the same lug design, which saves money on wholesale orders and production costs. If Yamaha didn’t think this would actually make a sound difference then they wouldn’t waste the money
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Also, the discontinued line of oak drums had a reputation for having an amazing sounding bass drum with tons of low end already. I think Yamaha recognized that feedback and tried to make something great even better

But I haven’t played the kit myself yet so I can’t say for sure
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

Adding weight to the shell damps (restricts) the resonance. The subjective impression is that the higher frequencies are lowered in proportion to the lower frequencies (making the pitch sound lower) and the "note" of the kick is shorter (does not resonate as long).

Last edited by barryabko; 02-05-2019 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Originally Posted by gdmoore28 View Post
And drum finishes that would make the owner proud.GeeDeeEmm
Tell me about it. I don't want something that looks like a piece of furniture, I want some nice sparkles and wraps. But that's just me.
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:44 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

It's funny how Simon Phillips puts the can of sand in the bass drum that "helps soak up the loose bottom end, and high end ping, making it more controlled and easier to record", yet he uses completely unmuffled, Remo Clear Ambassador bass drum heads!
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Old 02-05-2019, 03:16 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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he uses completely unmuffled, Remo Clear Ambassador bass drum heads!
That is incorrect. He places a rolled up and duct taped towel inside and taped to the batter head.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:05 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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That is incorrect. He places a rolled up and duct taped towel inside and taped to the batter head.
Yeah, I think the can of sand is gone and his drum tech is joyful about it.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:05 AM
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Default Re: Weights inside new Yamaha bass drum. Can someone explain how this works?

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Yeah, I think the can of sand is gone and his drum tech is joyful about it.
He only uses the paint can when recording in his studio.
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