Kick Snare & Hat

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I've heard this so much "it's all about the kick snare and hat" through the years, that after adhering to this mantra, I'm feeling somewhat against it.

I remember meeting this Eagles tribute band and after hanging out with that drummer, he told me that he could do their whole show of Eagles songs with just kick, snare, hat, and a floor tom (important for "Witchy Woman"). And he deplored having to carry at least five drums for the job because he didn't really use them at all. But he understood, as a tribute band, they tried to get the look right as well, so he went along with it.

I think I would feel ripped-off if I paid money to see a band and the drummer just had a bass drum and a snare drum. Music is also seen as well as heard so if I saw half a drum kit on stage, I'd be kinda mad. Like "you don't care about audience?".

I know we always talk about having smaller sets for rehearsals or practice, and some even get away with using less and smaller on certain gigs. But I say I'd still feel gipped if I looked up on stage and only saw TWO drums. Maybe have a second small kit downstage for a "acoustic set" (which is so popular with all the rock bands these days), but your main kit should be there and bigger.

I remember when even the Rolling Stones carried a second stage for the band, Charlie Watts still had the four-piece kit on the extra stage they had, in addition to his regular four-piece on their main stage.

So I get that people want smaller, but at the same time, I think there is a case for going too small. Thoughts?
 
I watched Dony Wynn with Robert Palmer. Big kick, snare, hi-hat in front, and two crashes. Fantastic show.
 
Was on holiday in Portugal last year and came across a funky jazz combo in the street...obviously drummer was bear minims with a tiny BD, hats, snare and a small cymbal and the whole thing sounded really good....was hard to leave..

I guess it all depends on the situation..maybe if I went to see a big name in a stadium a small setup would seem a bit lacking.
 
I have two Eagles Live DVDs and there are toms in the songs. Great sounding toms at that, so I disagree with the fellow in the tribute band. If I went to that show and saw kick, snare, hats, I’d know he was being lazy or trying just to make a point.

If I see kick, snare, hats and ride, it had better be a rockabilly show. Toms usually ruin that genre.

I’m not against the setup, but there has to be more to it than just to prove a point. It proves nothing.
 
Is that any worse than seeing some monster kit on stage and then having the drummer play snare, hats, and kick only? Maybe two of the 10 toms? Or two of the 12 cymbals?

I think I'd rather see the minimalist that knows how to use it.
 
If you can’t perform a song with a kick, snare, hat & cymbal, then there’s a problem. Those four instruments are the backbone of the kit.
 
Don't you need timbales for Hotel California ;)

All depends on context, kick, hat and snare are the meat and two veg of pop music drumming. Everything else is just sides depending on taste and preference. It's hard to play a gig with the bare minimum.

As much as I love my big Ludwig, it's impractical for gigging, it's a lot easier to make a little kit sound big with mics than a big kit sound small.

maybe if I went to see a big name in a stadium a small setup would seem a bit lacking.

Max Weinberg/Abe Laboriel Jr/Charlie Watts all do gigs we'd crap our pants at on a 4 piece but it's perfect for the gig.

Biggest gig I saw someone do on a 4 piece was Carole King in 2016 at Hyde Park when she did Tapestry in front of 60,000ish. Her drummer used the most basic 4 piece DW going.

What is funny is when you go to a small gig and someone has borrowed Bozzio's rig to play AC/DC!
 
I agree that there's something about the stage presence a full kit gets.

With that said, I personally never bring anything "just for show." I bring what I need. I played with a grunge-grass guy on New Years this year, and all I brought was a kick, snare, hats, and a crash/ride. That dude played in such a way I really didn't have time to do any fills. Fun as heck, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

I've been saying for years that if I can't get it done with a standard 4-piece, two crashes, a ride, and hats, then I probably shouldn't be playing it in the first place.
 
I am with you on this Bo. I am a firm believer in the gear on stage matching the aesthetic of the band. If I am at a metal show I want big kits and full stacks. If Im at a rockabilly show I want hollow body guitars and stand up basses. If im watching a tribute band I want the gear to match what the original artist played. Musicians forget that its a show, and everything matters. Even if the audience doesnt necessarily know what all is on the stage, they will know when things are right. Is that drummer really upset about having to bring a couple of extra toms. I mean come on, how lazy can you be. Make another trip to the van, its really not that big of a deal.
 
I have two Eagles Live DVDs and there are toms in the songs. Great sounding toms at that, so I disagree with the fellow in the tribute band. If I went to that show and saw kick, snare, hats, I’d know he was being lazy or trying just to make a point.

If I see kick, snare, hats and ride, it had better be a rockabilly show. Toms usually ruin that genre.

I’m not against the setup, but there has to be more to it than just to prove a point. It proves nothing.

What he said ^^^ !! I'm a hard rock player. Toms are so much a part of how I play. Let's hear somebody play this without toms ! Stay with it as there's some great chops by Jim Gordon at the end when they're doing call and response.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KtgqCiiIhE

HA ! Good luck.
 
I'm more of a substance guy. It doesn't matter to me what size/color/brand kit. What really matters is what he does with it. The amount of drums has no bearing on my enjoyment of the drummer.
 
If you can’t perform a song with a kick, snare, hat & cymbal, then there’s a problem. Those four instruments are the backbone of the kit.

I guess the thing for me, if I'm playing a song, I really try to emulate it as closely as possibly. Now, I'm only going to work from a 4 or 5 piece regardless. But, if those pieces of the kit are enough to actually play the music, then cool. But if you have a small setup kit like this, and 1/2 your music calls for tom fills, I would want to play them as closely to the original. I wouldn't want to be forced to just use those pieces. I don't think it has anything to do with ability. I have toms, why not use 'em?

But I get the anti-lugging around crap too, lol.
 
I think it is matter of matching what you use to the music you're group is playing. I could easily use just a snare, hi-hat, and ride for most of gigs we do if I wanted and even leave kick at home. When I'm comping with another player I don't use any toms. I don't do many solos and those I do it's mainly snare. I could do fills with just snare. I'm not the main attraction. No one in audience would know what I was doing except another drummer. I think we often forget that.
 
Like Larry said above, it depends on who's using it.

I saw Junior Brown several years ago - full band, with two guitars, lap steel, bass, backup singer. The drummer had a snare drum. Period. And his playing was beautiful.

I was recently fortunate to come across footage of Jerry Lee Lewis in one of his first television appearances playing "Great Balls of Fire." His drummer had a bass drum, snare, rack tom, and ride cymbal. What he did with those four pieces was masterful.

The thing is, if the drummer's good, no one will miss the drums that aren't there. I've seen guys with monster kits make me yawn, and guys with just bass, snare and hi-hat kick more ass than allowable by law.

I'll close with saying It's In the Way That You Use It, and now we can all have that song stuck in our heads. I'm sorry.
 
Don't you need timbales for Hotel California ;)

All depends on context, kick, hat and snare are the meat and two veg of pop music drumming. Everything else is just sides depending on taste and preference. It's hard to play a gig with the bare minimum.

As much as I love my big Ludwig, it's impractical for gigging, it's a lot easier to make a little kit sound big with mics than a big kit sound small.



Max Weinberg/Abe Laboriel Jr/Charlie Watts all do gigs we'd crap our pants at on a 4 piece but it's perfect for the gig.

Biggest gig I saw someone do on a 4 piece was Carole King in 2016 at Hyde Park when she did Tapestry in front of 60,000ish. Her drummer used the most basic 4 piece DW going.

What is funny is when you go to a small gig and someone has borrowed Bozzio's rig to play AC/DC!

I’m not talking about guys who use four drums. I’m talking about seeing only TWO drums and a hi hat. Yes, kick snare and hat are 90% of what we use, but to be a slave to the mantra if I’m paying $75+ for a show on a proper stage just feels disingenuous. The Stray Cats would be an exception - obviously rockabilly and skiffle are genres unto themselves. And even that jazz drummer who just went out with a lone ride cymbal couldn’t just do that all the time. When I play a 4-piece, bands sometimes want more than one cymbal.
 
Kick, snare & hats are the heart. Toms should be banned because they just "fill" in space on a kit and aren't used enough to justify bothering-choke, choke. It does seem if you don't have at least two toms people look at you funny. It's like Goldilocks too much too little-just right. So you get looks with just one tom but no matter how many you bring overplaying them gets you more nasty looks cause it sounds like crap.
 
I'm putting forth a petition to make calling a bass drum a "kick" a punishable offense

probably my only drumming pet peeve outside of top cymbal felts and wing nuts
 
LOL I try to not be offend when people call my 16 in "bass drum" a "foot drum" or remark why I play that wimpy little thing (it doesn't qualify as a bass drum)-it's a bass just a lil one. If it's 24-28 inches doesn't mean it's too big or a body drum.
 
In two bands now, I've gigged smaller venues with a markedly stripped down kit. For the one, I was doing rather complicated fusiony parts on just a bass drum, snare drum and ride cymbal. For the other, I was using bass, snare, hats, crash/ride, and cowbell. We just made it groove like hell.

But then, those were coffeehouses and wine bars. Yes, if you showed up for a concert in a 50,000 seat stadium having paid $350 for your ticket and there's just a bass-snare-hats set on stage, I think it would be a bit of a letdown. But just saying, there's plenty of times I have made that small setup work, and work very well for the scene.
 
I'm putting forth a petition to make calling a bass drum a "kick" a punishable offense

probably my only drumming pet peeve outside of top cymbal felts and wing nuts

Likewise, until I went into a recording studio. Then I understood the reason it's called a "kick". Too bad they didn't think to call it "heart" or "soul" or "epicenter".
 
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