DW's May Internal Miking System

Hey everybody!

Just wondering if any one had any experience with this system.They seem like they'd be fairly practical in a live situation (they wouldn't be getting constantly hit) and they wouldn't have to be constantly set up.

I could be completely wrong however and the video may be misleading so i was wondering if anyone here had any personal experience with em.

-Jonathan

i have a akg d112 in my dw. I have nothing but good experience with it. This weekend the engineering tech fellow in the studio actually prefered my d112 over the shure sm91 he initially wanted to use, he thought it didnt do that much of a difference, and The maymiking system is very handy and userfriendly, just plug it in.

It seems like a great idea in the bass drum, but the other drums I'd think that you'd really want to capture the raw stick attack.

Has anyone here used them on toms or snare?

I think on snare and toms you would have to eq the attack of the stick hit into the channel as opposed to getting it from the mic position. But it would give you better separation.

BillBachman said:

It seems like a great idea in the bass drum, but the other drums I'd think that you'd really want to capture the raw stick attack.

Has anyone here used them on toms or snare?

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Meat the beat said:

I think on snare and toms you would have to eq the attack of the stick hit into the channel as opposed to getting it from the mic position. But it would give you better separation.

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Nope, no problem getting attack. I've had mine over 16 years and have people ask if my drums were triggered. The isolation is great. About 12 years ago, I took them into a friends studio and experimented with placement. I found they sounded the best pointing at the bottom heads. No loss of attack. Big and fat.

I do not have them in any snares as I have too many and am too lazy to keep changing the mics. From what I read, the snare mic sounds best pointed at the bottom with an external mic on top pointing at the top head. In the snare they are best suited for adding the articulation and that crispy sound. The body is better captured from on top.

Live they are great. Just plug in and play. I even made "Y" adapters for FOH with limited channels with no dbl difference between them.

I love mine and think if more people could try them and afford them, there would be more using them.

Tommy Aldridge uses them on the Whitesnake DVD from 04, but he has his pointed at his top heads and his toms sound 'intertube-ish' so I don't think that video is a good representation of the mics...

Right? I would think that an internal mic on an unmuffled tom would sound boingy, but never tried them. Pointing the internal at the reso head eh? I will store that for future reference.
Live, I just use the 3 point micing system, and I already have an internal Audix D6 mic permanantly mounted in the kick, so setting up 2 mics isn't too bad.

But I do like the concept of just plugging the drum in.

Hi, I have May Beta 52's in the bass drum, and have started experimenting with SM 57 in the toms. Anyone have experience with Beta 52 versus SM 57 in the toms and floor toms, and mic placement?

By the way, I tried SM 57 inside a snare drum pointing to the top head. That was hopeless because it picked up a constant buzz from the snares whenever the snare head was brought into vibration when hitting other drums. Neither did I get any usable attack form the drum.

tormodkayser said:

Hi, I have May Beta 52's in the bass drum, and have started experimenting with SM 57 in the toms. Anyone have experience with Beta 52 versus SM 57 in the toms and floor toms, and mic placement?

By the way, I tried SM 57 inside a snare drum pointing to the top head. That was hopeless because it picked up a constant buzz from the snares whenever the snare head was brought into vibration when hitting other drums. Neither did I get any usable attack form the drum.

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Snares are the only thing internal miking lacks in. Too much snap. ALTHOUGH, a mic pointed at the bottom head along with an outside mic placed normally over the top head blends to a wonderful sound. The mic inside acts like a bottom mic without haveing to reverse the phase...

On your toms, try them towards the bottom heads. I know I sound like a broken record, BUT, I spent an entire day in a studio to experiment and this is what I found to work the best...

larryace said:

Right? I would think that an internal mic on an unmuffled tom would sound boingy, but never tried them. Pointing the internal at the reso head eh? I will store that for future reference.
Live, I just use the 3 point micing system, and I already have an internal Audix D6 mic permanantly mounted in the kick, so setting up 2 mics isn't too bad.

But I do like the concept of just plugging the drum in.

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Not boingy at all when you find "the spot", you just have to take the time to find it. Its a bit more than just pointing a mic and playing.

Convenience? Worth every penny....

Hi, I have a Shure Beta 52 mounted with the Kelly Shu in the bass drum and no hole in front head. The mic is approximately 3 inches from the batter head and slightly off axis to the bass drum beater. Great! On my 14"x14" and 16"x16" floor toms I have May Shure Beta 52's pointed towards top head and they sound awesome, however not entirely natural. Good attack and bottom end. Great when blended with overhead mics. I am going to buy May Beta 52's for my rack toms as well!

I've also talked with Jeff Kelly (Kelly Shu) and there might be "Mini-Shu" models coming out for internal miking toms with the Shu system. I'll be waiting on that vice the May. The cost of the May system is pretty outrageous and you're limited to a few mics. With the Kelly Shu system, I'll be able to use the mics I already own.

BTW, the standard Kellu Shu fits in 14" and larger toms, so if you're playing a Bonhamesque kit, you can use the Shu now.

simmsdn said:

The cost of the May system is pretty outrageous and you're limited to a few mics. With the Kelly Shu system, I'll be able to use the mics I already own

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If you know someone who works at a machine shop, you can have brackets made and you your own mics now....

Well, I wheeled out the super cans for this one, as I was keen to hear the sound clip. The DW toms sounded a bit dead to me, but that could just be a tuning thing. As expected, the internal mic's picked up part of the drum's sound. TBH, that's good enough to get enough to the board for live work. I get the convenience thing too, but internal mic's are missing out on the resolved drum sound. This is the total sound made by the entirety of the drum construction, & there is a big difference between the that sound & any point source. Just listen to the difference between mic'ing a cello or acoustic guitar with an internal mic, compared to an external mic, & you'll understand the difference.

I get (but don't prefer) the benefits with a bass drum, as shell resonance induced sustain isn't usually a feature in modern music, but the toms are a different matter. On a thicker shell that's already got a ton of metal bolted to it, I suppose screwing yet another resonance sink into the shell won't make much difference, but on a resonant thin shelled drum with low mass design, it sure will.

Some people have much better results, or think they do, with the Shure Beta 52 than I did when I tried it. I can't imagine the amount of low frequency build-up when that mic is placed inside of a bass drum. The 52 is a supercardioid microphone which has a substantial amount of sensitivity at the rear of the microphone compared to that of a stand cardioid design. Couple that with being inside a closed cylinder (bass drum) and you have an excess of 15 to 20 decibels of extended low end due to it's proximity effect. It's just not the 52 that has these characteristics, the AKG D112 is another microphone that I would keep from the inside of an enclosed bass drum. I've used both of these microphones on location, but I keep then at least two or three inches away from the resonant heads for a much cleaner, less muddy sound.

With any of the so called bass enhanced microphones, sometimes what's really needed is a batter microphone to level out the loss of attack from just primarily hearing all that low end from the microphone being placed inside of the bass drum. I use an Electrovoice RE20 on the outside of my bass drum's resonant head for studio and location work. It has very little if any proximity effect, so much less muddiness, and it doesn't struggle or compete with other low frequency instruments such as bass guitars or soft voices.

I believe in using the correct microphones for the job and using very little equalization to compensate on poor design or placement. If you can't get the sound right with placement, try a different microphone with characteristics more pursuant to the task at hand.





Dennis

BillBachman said:

It seems like a great idea in the bass drum, but the other drums I'd think that you'd really want to capture the raw stick attack.

Has anyone here used them on toms or snare?

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Bill,

I have a Tama Granstar 8" x 14" Steel shell snare that i have miked for years with an XL57 (shortened version of an SM57) inside the shell. I used to use this alone but now i use two mics for boith studio and live. The internal XL57 is pointed towards the snares and I use a traditional SM57 externally on the batter. It sounds great!