SQ2 versus PHX

jaysticks

Member
Hi there, I own a four piece PHX and have recently ordered a Sonor Prolite. I'm a fan of both companies drums, and think Yamaha's hardware is the best, but am starting to thinking the Sonor shells are purer sounding and more precise to tune. I'm contemplating selling my PHX and going for the full Sonor hit and getting an SQ2 series kit. I really like the PHX but criticisms are thicker bass drums I think don't work as well, they sound drier without any muffling in to start with, and possibly higher in pitch. Also, the 12 inch tom on this kit is very awkward to tune, I've tried every different tuning combination and there are still rogue and wanted discrepancies in the sound. Starting to think that a thick shelled Sonor kit, with a thinner bass drum might be the way forward. Any thoughts, or experiences with these kits much appreciated!
 
First of all, I agree with your assessment of the PHX, and thicker bass drums do have those characteristics (check out Andy's treatise on bass drum depth he posted a while ago). On the 12", maybe check the bearing edges/roundness of the shell/levelness of the edges for errors. That may be the cause of the tuning errors (or, like me, you just have a hard time with 12" toms :\ )

I think SQ2s are pretty damn sweet, so I'd probably go for one of those with Vintage Beech or Maple shells. Likely beech since the Prolites are already vintage maple. You might think about (if the Prolites satisfy your 'sustain-y' kit role) getting the SQ2 in a little heavier and larger sizes, maybe Thin or even Medium shells, for more of a separate thing.

Either way, I hope you resolve the situation in a satisfying way!
 
There's a guy on here that can probably help you (I think his name is Smatch), sold his PHX to fund a beech SQ2... he said the PHX bass drum was better, and had the best bass drum he'd heard, but the sonor toms were also the best toms he'd ever heard.
 
Appreciate your reply!Yea the PHX drums I have are spotless really in terms of build, so can't see it being that, but you never know!It's a design concept that does have it's clever points, different bearing edges on floor toms and bass drums to decrease unwanted resonance, 30 degree edges for more of a shell sound, light weight ally die cast hoops for a little focus, and the biggest strength of those drums is how the woodblock mounting increases sustain on a thicker shelled kit.
What I have noticed about the 11ply shells is they seem to go with you the louder you strike the drum, where as it may be the opposite with a thinner shell. As you say, that's my plan have a thinner shelled, very open and sweet sounding kit, and maybe a thick shelled kit in a wood that will still give bottom end and sustain. I am intrigued to get the Prolite, as to see whether the undersized toms will be more accurate sounding than the Yamahas, from what I read, a lot of people seem to think Sonor's shells are superior.
Like you the 12 on every kit I have seems a nightmare to get sounding great, it's just an awkward size in my opinion.
 
Appreciate your reply!Yea the PHX drums I have are spotless really in terms of build, so can't see it being that, but you never know!It's a design concept that does have it's clever points, different bearing edges on floor toms and bass drums to decrease unwanted resonance, 30 degree edges for more of a shell sound, light weight ally die cast hoops for a little focus, and the biggest strength of those drums is how the woodblock mounting increases sustain on a thicker shelled kit.
What I have noticed about the 11ply shells is they seem to go with you the louder you strike the drum, where as it may be the opposite with a thinner shell. As you say, that's my plan have a thinner shelled, very open and sweet sounding kit, and maybe a thick shelled kit in a wood that will still give bottom end and sustain. I am intrigued to get the Prolite, as to see whether the undersized toms will be more accurate sounding than the Yamahas, from what I read, a lot of people seem to think Sonor's shells are superior.
Like you the 12 on every kit I have seems a nightmare to get sounding great, it's just an awkward size in my opinion.

Ive never owned a good 12 inch tom. Ive always had tuning issues with them and ive had several high end kits. I think the problem may be they are always accompanied by a 10" tom not allowing the right spread of range. I do love 10" drums though. Neil Peart swears by 13" inch drums.....
 
I own a full PHX kit with 8" x 7, 10x 7 and 12 x 8 rack toms so thought I would pitch in :)

I agree with the previous comments around the 12" tom. Mike Johnson said on one of his videos he doesn't like 12" toms. I like them as they fit the music I play and I especially like a 12" over a 10" for jazz. They are hard to tune though and I think the PHX drums require a bit of extra effort generally, especially the 12". Comparing to other Yamaha drums, I've owned the Maple Absolutes and the Oak Customs. I think the PHX is closer to the Oak's in sound in that it doesn't have that "pure" sound that you refer to. They do have a darker sound but I tune the rack toms higher to get a nice attack and also a high pitch to compensate for this. I often used to think that the sound of the thinner shells of my Maple Absolute resonated out of the drums in a sphere so to speak as if a lot of the sound escaped from the drum where to my ears the PHX, the sound seems to resonate more inside the shell and gives a lot more low end, even at higher tunings.

A couple of things that will affect the sound and resonance of your rack toms (apart from the obvious head choice) is how far up or down the Yamaha Tom Mount you secure your tom. Also if the 12" is directly over the bass drum, the sound will differ from if it's off to the side slightly or mounted so no portion of the bottom head is over the bass drum.

Regarding the bass drum, I like the bass drum on my Pearl kit I owned slightly better. I think it's the profile on the bearing edge that Yamaha used, rather than the shell thickness. To quote Yamaha: "Bass drums have a sharper edge cut toward the outer plies. This gives the bass drums attack and shortens the decay." Personally I prefer a longer decay, you can always shorten the decay with head choice and muffling but you can't really increase (without digital processing).

I've never played the SQ2's but have looked at them quite closely and have watched a lot of Steve Smith videos on them. I think they are probably a bit more open / resonant than the PHX shells and have less low end similar to the sound of the Maple Absolutes. Hopefully a Sonar specialist will jump in here and correct me if I'm wrong!

I would love to try the SQ2's but I would stick with the PHX personally since I'm a (made in Japan) Yamaha nut, like die-cast hoops, hook lugs, finish, hardware and of course the sound.

I hope this helps.
 
As the former owner of a Yamaha PHX and the current owner of an SQ2 I will chime in. The PHX drums to me were very wild, bombastic sounding drums. Almost sounded like they were larger than their dimensions. The kick drum especially had a huge rumble as though you were coming through a big 18" sub. I found them to be amazing drums but maybe a bit too much if that even makes sense. They would sustain forever and compared to every SONOR drum I have owned were indeed a bit less forgiving with tuning. However once dialed in they were great drums. My favorite drum in the series is by far the kick and I still think it may be the bet sounding kick on the market.

By comparison nearly every German SONOR shell I have owned (thin birch, med maple, vintage maple, heavy beech and vintage beech) have all had a very pure quality, almost devoid of annoying overtones but at zero sacrifice to tone. To me they are the most polished sounding drums I have ever played and by far the easiest to dial in and record. My heavy shelled beech kit is my favorite and while the shells are the thickest SONOR offer ,they are in no way similar to the wild and bombastic PHX shells. Instead of having a longer decay (like the PHX) compared to their thinner shelled siblings, they just have more oomph, more dynamic range (both soft and loud) and more attack. The thick shells of the PHX design, I believe added increased gain and sustain ,where the thicker SONOR shells just add a bit more volume and attack. Most SONOR drums share the clean/pure quality but differ when you increase the shells thickness most in regards to dynamic threshold. My vintage beech kit was just too quiet for me and didn't react as effortlessly at low dynamics as my thicker shelled kits. At high volume without mics the vintage shells have a dynamic ceiling that inhibits their performance. Under mics obviously this is not an issue. I play electric fusiony/funky/jazzy stuff so we're not talking about competing with Marshall stacks but rather an occasional overdriven Rhodes or guitar.

Jay if you can afford to keep the PHX then I recommend that you do as they are unlike most kits out there. That said, in hindsight I still believe I made the right choice in selling my PHX and going SQ2. If I were rich I would have both but presented with the choice of one or the other, the SQ2 heavy beech kit would be my choice.
 
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