Being pushed and pulled

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
One week our singer wants me to play a song slower. Then the next week he wants it faster. I brought in a metronome for about 6 months so I'd know what's what.

After just a month or so of not using it, he's at it again! Great singer, great guy, occasional whimsical sense of tempo.

Do you guys ever get pushed and pulled around like this? Slower. Faster. Slower. Faster. I'm getting dizzy.

I might get him to tap the tempo he wants on the night for every song, maybe wave his arm like a conductor. Good idea? Bad idea? Or should I cling onto the tempo duties because I'm the drummer and it's theoretically my job?
 
One week our singer wants me to play a song slower. Then the next week he wants it faster. I brought in a metronome for about 6 months so I'd know what's what.

After just a month or so of not using it, he's at it again! Great singer, great guy, occasional whimsical sense of tempo.

Do you guys ever get pushed and pulled around like this? Slower. Faster. Slower. Faster. I'm getting dizzy.

I might get him to tap the tempo he wants on the night for every song, maybe wave his arm like a conductor. Good idea? Bad idea? Or should I cling onto the tempo duties because I'm the drummer and it's theoretically my job?

I gave up with it and have the vocalists count their own songs off. They don't like that so much.
 
One week our singer wants me to play a song slower. Then the next week he wants it faster. I brought in a metronome for about 6 months so I'd know what's what.

After just a month or so of not using it, he's at it again! Great singer, great guy, occasional whimsical sense of tempo.

Do you guys ever get pushed and pulled around like this? Slower. Faster. Slower. Faster. I'm getting dizzy.

I might get him to tap the tempo he wants on the night for every song, maybe wave his arm like a conductor. Good idea? Bad idea? Or should I cling onto the tempo duties because I'm the drummer and it's theoretically my job?

I guess depending how you feel about it let him count it in then he can't bitch about the tempo.
 
I gave up with it and have the vocalists count their own songs off. They don't like that so much.

Yes, once they have the duty, suddenly they're on the spot and become a study of concentration. I always enjoy that hehehe

Letting go of the duties is fine with me. At least I'd always know that he's comfortable with the tempo (or too proud to admit he wasn't :)

Mucky, I think the most "correct" course of action is for me to take responsibility and persist with the metronome as much as possible until it sinks in ... ? Still, he's a crooner of sorts and you often see crooners conduct orchestras in, or at least look as though they do. They're a funny breed.
 
oh god dont get me started, my lead guitarest does this all the time! we wrote a song at 200 bpm and he kept on complaining about it seeming like we were playing too slow so i kept on counting in faster and faster. finally brought in my meteronome by that time we were playing said song at 240 bpm. now whenever i hear bitchin i point to mr meteronome and grumbles ensue lol.
 
Earlier this evening Abe was complaining about a guitarist insisting that he play a crash every 8 bars during a part of a song so he could keep his place, even though it went against what was best for the song.

I was dissing him for being a militant member of the drummer's union but after mixing down the songs from last night's rehearsal and remembering what went on ...

Other musicians are such bastards lol ... and of course we drummers are saints :)
 
In my experiences, tempo is not worth squabbling over. If someone is that concerned with it and are adamant, especially from a singer, then it's time to hand over the reigns, for better or worse. The only thing that could possibly change minds is recordings. If you think it's too fast or too slow, get a recording and see if they agree. If they do, that's a good time to retake the reigns, assuring everyone that this is your area of expertise and that they should trust you. But first you have to give them enough rope so they can hang themselves. Hey if they do the tempo thing good, it's less for you to worry about, if they do it bad, that's when you lobby to retake control of establishing the tempo. If they think they can do it better, let em try, that's what I say.
 
I have found that most songs kind of have a natural feel. If the groove of the song feels right, that is the tempo I play it at. Just because somebody else counts it in that doesn't mean that I will play the entire song at that tempo. If I think a song feels right at a certain tempo I just tell everybody else to deal with it, that is where I am playing it at.

I was in a band that played to a click live because of the samples. That is one way to make sure the tempo is where the rest of the band like it.
 
I tend to want to play as fast as I can, so I let the lead vocalist / rhythm guitar player start, play a few bars, then the rest of us come in. If I start off a song, usually someone mentions it's too fast. So.....I let them start if off. No problems. It's ok. When that happens, everyone is happy. It's part of the collaborative process. It doesn't bother me.
 
In one of my groups, we've painstakingly established tempos for 4 sets worth of songs we do, recording and listening back for the right feel. Sometimes 3 or 4bpm makes a difference and the vocalist is usually the most sensitive to it.

But as a result, I now have numbers for every song, and we always start them at that tempo with better success of keeping them there (once I start, my time stays ±2bpm.) Nobody can say that we played something faster or slower than usual, and we've yet to adjust a tempo from its initial setting.

Bermuda
 
Make the band rehearse with the click thru the PA, and make them notice their own failings in terms of tempos.

The fact is the sense of tempo is relative for most (if not all) people.
Tired and worn out? You think the song is supposed to be slower.
Drank 10 cups of coffee? The song is supposed to be faster!

Few people are perfect. And even those who think they perfect are not as perfect as they think they are.
 
One week our singer wants me to play a song slower. Then the next week he wants it faster.

I agree with the comment about most songs having a natural feel. But even then there is some leeway. I find that the more often I/we play a song, there is a natural tendency to mix things up a little so we don't get bored with it. Especially when playing live, the vibe at that time may be more energetic or more laid back, which affects the feel of a song.
A lot of guys I've played with over the years have said I'm steady, but I've never played to a click (though I think they're good for consistency when recording). I hope this isn't blasphemy, but I just prefer to go by feel and I rarely even count. However, I will point out that most of the folks I play with I've played with a lot, so we can lock in to a groove easily.
As for who sets the tempo, well I think every band has a leader, whether officially or unofficially. In one group I play with it's the guitarist. He starts a lot of the songs and I keep whatever tempo he goes with. Even if I count the start off, I follow his lead if he signals to speed or slow.
 
I agree with the comment about most songs having a natural feel. But even then there is some leeway. I find that the more often I/we play a song, there is a natural tendency to mix things up a little so we don't get bored with it. Especially when playing live, the vibe at that time may be more energetic or more laid back, which affects the feel of a song.
A lot of guys I've played with over the years have said I'm steady, but I've never played to a click (though I think they're good for consistency when recording). I hope this isn't blasphemy, but I just prefer to go by feel and I rarely even count. However, I will point out that most of the folks I play with I've played with a lot, so we can lock in to a groove easily.
As for who sets the tempo, well I think every band has a leader, whether officially or unofficially. In one group I play with it's the guitarist. He starts a lot of the songs and I keep whatever tempo he goes with. Even if I count the start off, I follow his lead if he signals to speed or slow.

Yeah i'm with this guy here. Obviously there are tempos that are right and wrong for a song. However when you have played them enough you should trust your band mates enough to know that the tempo you are playing is round about or correct.

I play what i feel is correct and i have started to discipline myself more, i've heard recordings of me speeding up and not realising so now i concentrate on keeping it steady, if i feel i'm speeding up i will remind myself and bring it back just a touch and the band follows suit.

But if it is my responsibility to bring a song in with drums then i play what i feel is right and none of my band mates complain. I never count and i tend to go with what feels best.
 
Larry said:
If someone is that concerned with it and are adamant, especially from a singer, then it's time to hand over the reigns, for better or worse.

That's what I've been doing of late because he's easily the best part in the band. The more comfortable he is, the better the songs will come across. He needs to be comfortable and, even though he varies, I've not felt uncomfortable with any of his starting tempos (bemused, yes, but not uncomfortable) and no one else seems to be worried.

eclipseownzu said:
I have found that most songs kind of have a natural feel.

Bermuda said:
Sometimes 3 or 4bpm makes a difference and the vocalist is usually the most sensitive to it.

Yes and yes. The tolerance range of tempo variance in songs varies a fair bit. In some songs a few bpm can make a lot of difference, in others, even 10+bpm difference can still be workable, if not ideal. If there's a lot of words to fit in or any fast/busy parts then things need to be steady or someone is going to struggle.

DrumEatDrum said:
The fact is the sense of tempo is relative for most (if not all) people.
Tired and worn out? You think the song is supposed to be slower.
Drank 10 cups of coffee? The song is supposed to be faster!

Yes x 3 :) Our vocalist is a whimsical, mercurial and emotionally labile guy - all intuition and natural ability and very little technical knowledge. The variance especially happens with some slower numbers with a touch of jaunt in them (hard to explain), which do seem to have more wiggle room.

The more I think about it, the more I'll just nod and grin at him when everyone's looking for the count. I'll let him start them, record the versions, record the bpms and them report back to him on the ranges so we can decide which to use for the demo (which we were going to book for early April on Thursday and then found out the studio has closing down that day!)
 
Ok, I've gone mad. It's official. I checked the tempos and at a gig last Sept we recorded I set the tempo for the song at 99bpm. Our singer started it at 99bpm last Thurs.

A slower version started by him early this month was 95bpm but the nicest version to my ear (started by me) in Jan this year was 97bpm. The gig was the fastest of the versions I started. Probably a bit excited.

I'll canvass 97bpm with him next band practice. I need a metronome implant.
 
This is why I use a metronome live to count off songs at the correct tempo. If nothing else, I can be absolved of any responsibility when the other members complain about it "not feeling right".

I find it's best to not rely on vocalists to keep the right tempo. I've noticed the same thing with horn players. I seems they tend to be a little behind the beat, maybe because they have to keep track of their breathing too. At least that's my theory.

For rock/pop songs, I keep the tempo solid, no matter what. If other members push and pull, I won't follow; I just provide solid time for them to rely on. For jazz gigs though, it's more acceptable, even necessary, for the tempo to sway a little bit.
 
I have found that most songs kind of have a natural feel. If the groove of the song feels right, that is the tempo I play it at. Just because somebody else counts it in that doesn't mean that I will play the entire song at that tempo. If I think a song feels right at a certain tempo I just tell everybody else to deal with it, that is where I am playing it at.

I was in a band that played to a click live because of the samples. That is one way to make sure the tempo is where the rest of the band like it.

Well said. I am in a band with 9 people. We will start a song and everyone scatters trying yo find there own tempo ( really pisses me off ). I told the band that I am the time keeper and each song has a certain feel and tempo. When I am in the pocket thats the tempo so deal with it. We did one practice with a click on for everyone to hear. They now understand what I am talking about.
 
Make the band rehearse with the click thru the PA, and make them notice their own failings in terms of tempos.

The fact is the sense of tempo is relative for most (if not all) people.
Tired and worn out? You think the song is supposed to be slower.
Drank 10 cups of coffee? The song is supposed to be faster!

Few people are perfect. And even those who think they perfect are not as perfect as they think they are.

Well saud ,Im in one band where the lead singer is also the bass player, and he NEVER is wrong.For the most part i will count a song off unless the intro doesnt call for me to startt it off.If i know the song is being rushed i will try to slow it gown without being noticable.
 
I used to get accused of being too fast or too slow until I finally brought a disc of the songs to practice. When they would say the tempo was wrong, I would bring out the disc and say "Let's see how they play it on the CD". After a few times they quit griping. If they want to play it faster or slower, then say so, but don't complain because I am trying to play it in the tempo the song was recorded. I never claim to be the best timekeeper in the world, but I do make my best attempt to play it like it is on the CD/album.

My favorite is when our guitar player starts a song off (usually because it has a guitar intro and the rest of us come in after a few bars) and then he turns to me and says "That's too slow". I then get to say "Well...YOU started the song, dumb%$&!!!!".
 
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