Less Playing = More Kudos

This reminds me of being invited to "jam" by a guitarist. And they play eight measure of a blues riff then go off on a guitar solo over your drumming. Nothing sounds dumber to me than this scenario.
"Serving the song" is great, but there is also an aspect of servitude to it. Sometimes people will praise you for playing simply because it makes them look good, and gives them more room to express themselves. I'm not a huge fan of that attitude. It's like "know your place, drummer, and that place is making me sound as good as possible."

I think a "jam" is a different situation compared to working in a cover band getting paid to provide the hits for the clientele. But I would think it probably sounds just as bad if everybody were taking a solo at the same time, which I guess that's why they call it a jam. But the idea of the jam is to meet other musicians and potentially network for future gigs, so if you as a drummer don't at least correctly demonstrate your true role to the music, then you could be stuck in jam situations for a long time, no?
 
One thing I'm surprised more drummers don't do is play the styles of music that DO call for more from the drums. There are musical situations where you can use all the technical stuff you've learned. Rather than force stuff that doesn't fit into something, go out and get involved in situations where it works.

For me, not having an outlet for that would make me crazy.
 
One thing I'm surprised more drummers don't do is play the styles of music that DO call for more from the drums. There are musical situations where you can use all the technical stuff you've learned. Rather than force stuff that doesn't fit into something, go out and get involved in situations where it works.

For me, not having an outlet for that would make me crazy.

Now this is a VERY good point.

I play in a band that is a Blues Brothers Show band. It's great fun and I can use and create some great grooves and fills. And I even get a solo in one song.

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There are 3 ways to back up a song

1. Traditional time keeping way with occasional rolls/ fills

2. come up with a drum pattern throughout the song (for eg: Rosanna- Porcaro, In the air tonight- Collins etc...)

3. The Keith Moon way


as we all know what we hear on the studio recording (1 or 2 or 3) is the way the band/producer expects the drums to be played.

When a cover band covers the same song, audience expects it to be heard the way it is on the studio recording, unless the drummer has a creative way (make it lesser than Studio version, or more ) to make it more enjoyable.

just my thoughts.
 
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I think the meat of it is mostly the snare roll at the end of the measures. Nail that down, and improvise on it a bit, and I think you're gold.

This got me to thinking. I know what you are saying about the snare rolls, but didn't remember hearing that at the end of each measure. Now I know why...

The version I've listened to the most throughout the years is this studio version here:
https://youtu.be/RaekgRtsTiQ

And the version you are refering to is the original version here:
https://youtu.be/BfuWXRZe9yA

Not only are the drums a little different, so is the guitar intro, and the B.U. vocals, which explains why the singers are singing it different than I was hearing it.

I think you're right though. The original version is easier to copy, but I love the other version because that's full-tilt Keith Moon.
 
Wow dude, weird. I never payed enough attention to realize I'd heard more than one version of the song. At any rate, it's similar. The bass drum goes thud thud and then there's a fill usually. I prefer the simpler snare fill version, I guess!
 
As I remember, Keith played a song differently each time he played it.
That is why I liked his style. And it makes it easier for drummers to cover Who songs.


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As I remember, Keith played a song differently each time he played it.
That is why I liked his style. And it makes it easier for drummers to cover Who songs.


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Yea, I've heard a few live versions where he way simplified. Played solid backbeat through lots more measures than he did in either of the examples above.
 
I agree with both of you Dr. Watso and H.J.

I think the reason he played differently was just because he was not a disciplined drummer but
played by the seat of his pants.....which is not a problem for a Who fan like me.
 
If Bonham thought of the usual million dollar statement "Less is more" while recording D yer maker....the song would have been treated in a different way by the Zep fans...just another thought........listen to Kenny Jones playing with the who "My Generation" live (its in you tube...he thinks Less is more)......listen to Dire Straits "Ride Across the river" live version . this "less is more" version sound much better than the studio recorded version....just my thoughts..
 
I like subtle playing with tasty little flurrishes here and there, that just make you go "oohhh nice" occasionally. A well placed kick drum, or ghost on the snare, or hi-hats..
Depends on the style of music too, of course.
Lately though I seem to have a thing for odd groupings..
 
One thing I'm surprised more drummers don't do is play the styles of music that DO call for more from the drums. There are musical situations where you can use all the technical stuff you've learned. Rather than force stuff that doesn't fit into something, go out and get involved in situations where it works.

For me, not having an outlet for that would make me crazy.

That's why I quit gigging. A lot of the music I enjoy is not tolerated by the public and doesn't sell drinks. So gigging has always meant I always had to focus on the mainstream side of my music tastes. Most of the off-the-wall kind of music I've always wanted to play never had an airing. Once all the novelties wore off it started feeling like work rather than paid play.
 
I saw a band at my local haunt last night and this couldn't be more true. It was a 3 piece playing MOR pop rock with a singer with an understated stage presence and a bored looking basist. Despite this, their drummer was doing everything he possibly could to get noticed; unnecessarily complicated grooves, fills at every opportunity, high over exaggerated stick swinging before smashing the life out of the snare, making the whole kit wobble and causing water bottles to fall of his riser, not to metion tapping away between songs. He got the attention alright, but the kind that makes you cringe.

What's more is that the band got shouts for an encore, which he refused to do because he was 'exhausted'. As one or two of you have mentioned, sometimes it's better to swallow pride, go with the flow and try to compliment and support the playing of the rest of the band as much as possible. Part of me wonders why he didn't decide to be a front man, he has all the characteristics of one!
 
There are 3 ways to back up a song

1. Traditional time keeping way with occasional rolls/ fills

2. come up with a drum pattern throughout the song (for eg: Rosanna- Porcaro, In the air tonight- Collins etc...)

3. The Keith Moon way


as we all know what we hear on the studio recording (1 or 2 or 3) is the way the band/producer expects the drums to be played.

When a cover band covers the same song, audience expects it to be heard the way it is on the studio recording, unless the drummer has a creative way (make it lesser than Studio version, or more ) to make it more enjoyable.

just my thoughts.


Interesting - I've always thought #1 and #2 were the same number - the thinking that the Purdie Shuffle *is* traditional time keeping, only the meter is more complex than, say, a Johnny Cash tune. Shuffles have triplets, etc....

I've also thought that some drummers play an "ish" ... like KM or Alan White from Oasis. Others stick to a game plan, such as David Garibaldi or Neil Peart. The difference being a personality issue more than anything else - some really prefer a set plan and others prefer to make it up as they go along. Either can work musically.
 
I saw a band at my local haunt last night and this couldn't be more true. It was a 3 piece playing MOR pop rock with a singer with an understated stage presence and a bored looking basist. Despite this, their drummer was doing everything he possibly could to get noticed; unnecessarily complicated grooves, fills at every opportunity, high over exaggerated stick swinging before smashing the life out of the snare, making the whole kit wobble and causing water bottles to fall of his riser, not to metion tapping away between songs. He got the attention alright, but the kind that makes you cringe.

Funny, Erberderber doesn't sound like a Korean name :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPWjNX4PBlI

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lol

Kwon Soon Keun is a legend. It is what it is.


On the less is more thing it really depends. If you got "Vinnie status" you can get away with more. Good dynamics, phrasing and picking the spots helps, too.

Speaking from the other side the fence as a guitar player first the foundation has to be there first. We tend to be hard on drummers, bass players too, but nothing is more annoying than someone playing stuff with the completely wrong feel, inner dynamics and seeming more interested in throwing in extra flash where it ads nothing to the music.

I don't mind a drum solo. If I'm not the drummer, I'd want that musician to have their spot, if it's a setting fit for a drum solo. Actually, many dummers don't want a solo, as they are not used to being asked an don't crave that need for expression. Many bass players are the same. In an improvised jazzy setting, we're all equal as far I'm concerned. Doesn't necessarily mean equal amount of solos. It just means doing what seems to work and not having an ego about it.

I'm currently digging on the Jeff Lashway "Reunion" album. It's quite amazing how much Vinnie plays, but it really works and never gets in the way. Just a lot of cool little things, many of which only drummers would notice. The groove and feel is always there, though. That's the real trick. As long as the music feels good, you can do A LOT of stuff. Other musicians can do a lot of stuff to, but loosing the groove is like playing in the wrong key. It really stands out, even tone deaf people notice and it's really heard for the other musicians to be comfortable and perform their best if don't feel they can't trust the main driver of the train.

Just a slightly wrong tempo can really ruin a song.

If we're e.g. playing a slow groovy bluesy thing and the drummer is way on top and even has an ego about it instead of being willing to listen and learn. A drummer that might be, but it's not a musician.
 
Heh, I'd pay to see Kwon Soon Keun too - especially in an intimate club. Not just a legend but an inspiration :)

When people overplay I take it to mean that either they are in the wrong band and playing the wrong music or the rest of the band, for whatever reason, enjoys a lively, drummy vibe.

There's a fun anecdote from Bill Bruford about the first time he played with bassist, Tony Levin. At first Tony wasn't playing very much so Bill filled in. Then Tony dropped out more and Bill filled in more. Eventually, Tony had just about dropped out altogether and Bill was going like a bat out of hell - at which point Bill realised what was going on.

Many bands will fumble with this issue for years without ever resolving it. The tale really says something about Tony's musical sensibilities and maturity, and Bill's intelligence to get the message in minutes, without a word needing to be spoken.
 
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