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savage8190
Guest
Deleted so no one else gets their panties in a twist.
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Thanx for the reviews!
I might be lucky. I have an in-home lesson every 1.5 to 3 months. Two hours @ $100 (cash). I think Feb will be my 3-year anniversary.
The only website I subscribed to was Bill B's site, and that was only for a few months to fix my technique so I wasn't hurting myself. His extreme-hands-makeover is literally so good that it probably costs him longterm subscriptions.
Outside of that, there's enough free stuff on youtube to keep me going indefinitely. I understand that some people need a routine/program/structure to adhere to, but I really just needed to be able to play convincingly when the light turns red.
Peace, Love, and goodwill.
I might be lucky. I have an in-home lesson every 1.5 to 3 months. Two hours @ $100 (cash). I think Feb will be my 3-year anniversary.
The only website I subscribed to was Bill B's site, and that was only for a few months to fix my technique so I wasn't hurting myself. His extreme-hands-makeover is literally so good that it probably costs him longterm subscriptions.
Outside of that, there's enough free stuff on youtube to keep me going indefinitely. I understand that some people need a routine/program/structure to adhere to, but I really just needed to be able to play convincingly when the light turns red.
Peace, Love, and goodwill.
BenjaminCamelot
Senior Member
Bill B as in Bill Bruford?
toddbishop
Platinum Member
I appreciate your taking the time to write up your experiences. I have a few caveats and thoughts about this, for you and for others using this post as guidance:
Re: actual "in-person" drum lessons:
So, yeah. I don't think these services/products are really comparable. Using the sites is much more like just buying a bunch of drum books than it is like actually taking lessons.
- As a beginning drumming student, you are not qualified to assess the quality of these products. You can judge ease of use, which one you like the best, and which one you can afford, but you don't know which one actually offers the best value re: your real improvement as a musician per $ spent.
- The products you reviewed are not equivalent services, so the price comparison isn't really meaningful except in re: absolute budget-- how much are you able to spend on drumming this year-- and if you're going to use only one of these products, and not learn another way.
- For example: learning to play the drums involves a lot of listening to records (included in your current annual recorded music budget), watching people play (which you can do for a cover charge and cost of a soft drink), and playing with people (which you can do for free). A person who did all of those things a lot would be a much better musician after two years than the person who did only one of your reviewed products.
What would the cost be to do that, plus, say, 3 months per year of drum lessons with an expert teacher? A student who did that would blow away anyone just relying on the online products. This isn't hypothetical-- most professional players did something like that when they were students. They all didn't necessarily take lessons full time.
Re: actual "in-person" drum lessons:
- That headline should actually read in-person lessons with this one guy. Judging "in-person lessons" by your experience with one mediocre teacher is, well, wildly wrong. To find the right teacher, most people need to a) get a referral, b) try a few.
- A drum teacher's job is not to give you tons of things to work on. You can get tons of things to work on by buying some books. For $100, you can get more practice materials than you will ever master for the rest of your life. On my site, totally free of charge, is more stuff than you will ever learn to play. Finding things to practice is not the problem.
The teacher's actual job, at least in re: lesson assignments, is to be an expert, to know what you need to know right now, and to assign things that will advance your playing accordingly. And to give you advice on the things you're working on on your own-- it's assumed that you will be working on your own stuff, too.
- Actual face time with an expert teacher who is also a good communicator is just a completely different animal from these no-feedback or video feedback "lessons." For example: often I'll work with the student on specific technical issue for up to 30-45 minutes, involving many dozens or hundreds of information exchanges: him/her doing the thing and me assessing, correcting and refining, or making her do it another way, or jumping something else if I see that it will help her get the thing we're working on. It's a complex process. And it is impossible to duplicate that service with any video feedback product.
So, yeah. I don't think these services/products are really comparable. Using the sites is much more like just buying a bunch of drum books than it is like actually taking lessons.
AzHeat
Platinum Member
If I may chime in.....this coming from a mostly self taught drummer of 35 years, I found the reviews fairly handy. Not everyone has the budget for a good drum teacher. I certainly don't. If it was an absolute priority and my livelihood depended on it, then absolutely, a high paid, high quality instructor would be worth his weight in gold. If on the other hand, Drums are part of your life's enjoyment, then the reviews are golden.
Personally, I wish I could take drum lessons from an expert. I've looked into them and the only ones I find are about 30 miles away from me, cost a fortune and are only available during my work hours.
Combing through endless useless videos on YouTube to find an occasional nugget is time consuming as well, so if I can get direction for $30 per month, work on lesson on my time and learn three new tricks per year, than I've accomplished 10x the value payed.
For the most part, I suck as a drummer, but I've paid $0 for my training. I used to gig pretty regularly and the bands I played in had a pretty big following. People seemed to enjoy themselves and we had a great time. to say you need to pay $X for only Y or Z to make it worth your time, doesn't serve people well either. There are nuggets all around and we each have different needs, capabilities, time and finances to dedicate to the craft.
I thank the OP for taking time and I thank you for your link and dedication to provide some excellent free material. it's why most of us are here on this forum. To communicate and learn. For me, it's given me the greatest boost in playing I've had in years and my limited hour a day practices have been meaningful, so thanks to all for your reviews and contributions.
Personally, I wish I could take drum lessons from an expert. I've looked into them and the only ones I find are about 30 miles away from me, cost a fortune and are only available during my work hours.
Combing through endless useless videos on YouTube to find an occasional nugget is time consuming as well, so if I can get direction for $30 per month, work on lesson on my time and learn three new tricks per year, than I've accomplished 10x the value payed.
For the most part, I suck as a drummer, but I've paid $0 for my training. I used to gig pretty regularly and the bands I played in had a pretty big following. People seemed to enjoy themselves and we had a great time. to say you need to pay $X for only Y or Z to make it worth your time, doesn't serve people well either. There are nuggets all around and we each have different needs, capabilities, time and finances to dedicate to the craft.
I thank the OP for taking time and I thank you for your link and dedication to provide some excellent free material. it's why most of us are here on this forum. To communicate and learn. For me, it's given me the greatest boost in playing I've had in years and my limited hour a day practices have been meaningful, so thanks to all for your reviews and contributions.
Jared_Falk
Member
This was my favourite (Canadian spelling) part:
I understand that there is some animosity towards Jared Falk, and I get it, he's not my favorite. But honestly, once you get past his annoying marketing hype and join up you barely ever see him anymore; he seems to have distanced himself from the company a bit.
But seriously, I do appreciate your honesty and breakdown of all the different options for drummers.
I understand that there is some animosity towards Jared Falk, and I get it, he's not my favorite. But honestly, once you get past his annoying marketing hype and join up you barely ever see him anymore; he seems to have distanced himself from the company a bit.
But seriously, I do appreciate your honesty and breakdown of all the different options for drummers.
I didn't take the OPs post the same way that you did, but perhaps that's because I'm not a terribly skilled drummer myself. (Can't really call myself a beginner, just not a virtuoso.) I could certainly benefit from structured lessons myself.
I read it from his perspective of being new. I've looked at Drumeo myself, and found much of what he said to be accurate in my experience. I haven't subscribed, and as such I'm not familiar with the full experience, so I appreciated his perspective.
I think most folks reading his review will understand that he might not be the best judge from a critical standpoint. He is giving us his experience coming from a beginners perspective. Most folks looking athese services are likely beginners themselves. More skilled and/or experienced players might not appreciate the methods taught, but that will also be coming from a more experienced position than the OP (or the target demographic for such services.) The cost comparisons are simply handy to have, if only to know what you're looking at before spending too much time investigating a service that might be out of your price range, or if it can be justified.
Thanks for the reviews.
AzHeat
Platinum Member
The beauty of the Internet is regardless of what you do or say, someone will be annoyed. If I could figure out how to make money for my built in gift of annoyance, I'd make sure I was 10x more annoying than people think you are and make a bundle from it!
Larry
"Uncle Larry"
In Jared's defense, I find him to be good at what he does. He doesn't waste time by making any drummer interviews a platform for Jared Falk, he focuses on his guests. His questions don't slow the momentum, he is not a holdback to the show like some interviewers are. I for one appreciate the things he doesn't do. He seems very secure and doesn't need to make himself come off like... whatever. He's humble and can see past himself and I appreciate that. He's good at letting his guests feel comfortable and in charge.
As far as your reviews Mr. savage, it was very generous of you to take the time to chronicle your experiences and write it out so thoughtfully for others to learn from. It's deeds like this that makes this forum great. So thank you for your thoughtful review. I got a lot from it.
As far as your reviews Mr. savage, it was very generous of you to take the time to chronicle your experiences and write it out so thoughtfully for others to learn from. It's deeds like this that makes this forum great. So thank you for your thoughtful review. I got a lot from it.
Indeed. Once you are comfortable on an instrument, it's easy to forget the confusion, misconceptions, and anxiety you had going into it.
FWIW: I didn't need an instructor to teach me how to play drums, I needed an instructor to teach me how to learn to play the drums. Something as simple as "slow down" was meaningless, because I didn't fully understand how to slow down at first. There's more to it than simply playing a part slower, especially when you have to fight your intuition.
toddbishop
Platinum Member
I don't believe the "budget" option here is not actually the best value-- as is often the case. I think any student would be better off spending the entire year's cost for any of those sites on real drum lessons plus a few choice books. Six weeks/three months of actual lessons with a decent teacher should be enough to prepare you to work productively on your own for the rest of the year.
You should be able to find somebody decent for $30-50/hour, depending on where you live. If there's a state university close by, one of the jazz students might be good enough to teach you for less than that. The nearest community college may have a part time percussion teacher who could help you. Or maybe your super-expensive guy can refer you to one of his students who would be good for you. There are probably a few teachers out there who won't want to refer you to someone else, but most will want to help you find a situation that works for you.
Thanks for this and saving me the time of typing something similar.
The OP is really comparing apples and oranges and bananas. And your point about beginners not knowing what they don't know is spot on, with all due respect to anyone who considers themselves a beginner. A beginner finds a teacher because they don't yet know how to tell the difference between what works and what doesn't. Part of a teacher's job is to help them learn that.
The trouble with pre-fab videos is that they're directed at a wide audience, not a specific student. They cast a wide net. But, a good teacher can adapt and change their methods to suit the learning style and personality of the student, if necessary. So being, if a pre-fab system doesn't work for you, it may not be that the information or the presentation is objectively poor, just that it didn't hit the mark with you.
For instance, reading that the OP needed to stop playing drums because they couldn't *get* something presented to them in a video lesson makes me think that A) the material was too advanced for them and B) that if I had a student who was reaching the depths of despair over something so early in their drumming career, I'd have shifted them onto something else (or at least broken the concept up into easier-to-digest pieces) long before and addressed the confidence issue they were having. Don't get me wrong, good things take time and dedicated effort but it's also possible to bite off more than one can chew. A pre-fab lesson can be downloaded and viewed/attempted by anyone, whether they're ready for that lesson or not.
toddbishop
Platinum Member
Sure. I'm not being critical of him for writing the reviews, but I don't want people to be misled that he's actually given a complete and informed review of their options. It's a pretty severe distortion, actually, to compare private lessons with the web products the way he has, and it would be irresponsible to let that stand without giving some more information.
Jared---
Keep on keeping on and ignore the haters. Like many others, I enjoy your style, your ability to explain drumming concepts clearly, and your skill on the kit.
Paul
Dizeee
Senior Member
Wow... had no idea Jared was here! Great frankenkit solo too by the way I watched last night.
For me I personally love Drumeo and particularly find Jared an inspiring and interesting drummer. I don't find any issues with the 39 seconds of shout outs regarding a couple of brands at the start if a free one hour videology a problem especially when you think of the quality and diversity if material that follows.
He seems humble to me and extremely capable. I also find his teaching style effective and accurate more so than a lot of other of their guests and tutors.
AzHeat
Platinum Member
Agreed, and well stated...
Jared_Falk
Member
Thank you for all the kind comments... But I promise I wasn't fishing for anything like that. I've been publishing videos online since around 2002-2003 and have been called everything under the sun, so it's nothing I haven't heard before.
In the past, the feedback given would really hurt as people say things in such a negative way when posting online. Rarely do people chat online like they'd chat to me in person. But I've gotten thick skin over the years.
That said, I LOVE all feedback, good or bad. I'd just sometimes prefer people give it more diplomatically and then it would more likely be heard.
As it relates to Online Lessons vs. Private Lessons...
Some of you have said that you can't compare the two, but I will disagree. Not because it's my opinion, but it's just a trend I'm seeing these days. When it comes to the adult learners (18+) people are beginning to prefer online lessons instead of private lessons. I believe that the market is the market, I don't determine what people are interested in, the general market does. So it could move in either direction in the coming years and I have some opinions on where it will go but this comment is already way too long.
But if anyone personally thinks that private lessons are much better for all types of drummers then share your opinion as it may help a drummer determine the best solution for them. At Drumeo, we launched a Drum Teacher Directory to help connect students with good private instructors, so I have nothing against private instruction.
Anyways, back to work for me. Thanks for reading!
In the past, the feedback given would really hurt as people say things in such a negative way when posting online. Rarely do people chat online like they'd chat to me in person. But I've gotten thick skin over the years.
That said, I LOVE all feedback, good or bad. I'd just sometimes prefer people give it more diplomatically and then it would more likely be heard.
As it relates to Online Lessons vs. Private Lessons...
Some of you have said that you can't compare the two, but I will disagree. Not because it's my opinion, but it's just a trend I'm seeing these days. When it comes to the adult learners (18+) people are beginning to prefer online lessons instead of private lessons. I believe that the market is the market, I don't determine what people are interested in, the general market does. So it could move in either direction in the coming years and I have some opinions on where it will go but this comment is already way too long.
But if anyone personally thinks that private lessons are much better for all types of drummers then share your opinion as it may help a drummer determine the best solution for them. At Drumeo, we launched a Drum Teacher Directory to help connect students with good private instructors, so I have nothing against private instruction.
Anyways, back to work for me. Thanks for reading!
S
savage8190
Guest
Guys, I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I was simply providing a narrative of MY experiences and what MY preferences were/are. I stated right off the top that i am a beginner and that these are just my opinions...i am not an expert. Everyone learns differently and I don't mean to imply that one method is better than another...just commentating on what has worked for me for other people that may be looking for some comparison...like I was. My goals are also very different from other peoples goals...maybe I'll want to play some gigs when my kids are grown up, but for the time being I'm happy keeping on by myself working at my pace and doing what I think is fun. I think being engaged with other drummers is a great thing to do regardless...I go to clinics when I can, I know a few people that are into it that I talk to, I go to shows big and small to watch how others are doing it...Its not like taking lessons online means Im totally isolated from the rest of the world.
For the record, my in person teacher is regarded as one of the best in the country and is an awesome guy...I just didn't entirely jive with his teaching style; that's my issue, not his. I enjoyed every minute I spent with him, I just think I'm better off working through easier beginner stuff on my own and then branching out later when Im more confident. In fact I've often thought I would go back to him at some point once I feel like less of a newb lol.
Jared, thank you for chiming in. I think my wording is poorly chosen...I don't have any issue with you or your teaching style, in fact I've worked on a few of your lessons and found them fun and engaging...I simply meant that of the teachers I have followed you weren't my favorite, and that's totally Ok, everyone has preferences, I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me and it doesn't mean that you are a bad instructor in any way. Your video on setting up the kit was the very first video I watched, I appreciate all the free content you've put out there and I think you're playing is pretty kick ass. When you're the face of a company you're bound to take some heat...good on you for taking it in stride. Drumeo does have some aggressive marketing, I dont love it to be honest, but its marketing...I understand it. Other companies that offer great products have taken the same approach because it works. There has been a lot of negativity towards you and Drumeo on this site and I have always found it pretty unwarranted.
I just updated a couple things in my original post...I put a bit of a disclaimer at the top just to clarify my intentions with the post and I edited the Drumeo review a bit because I felt really bad about my wording there. Jared seems like a solid dude and I seriously meant no offense. Drumeo is an awesome product/brand.
For the record, my in person teacher is regarded as one of the best in the country and is an awesome guy...I just didn't entirely jive with his teaching style; that's my issue, not his. I enjoyed every minute I spent with him, I just think I'm better off working through easier beginner stuff on my own and then branching out later when Im more confident. In fact I've often thought I would go back to him at some point once I feel like less of a newb lol.
Jared, thank you for chiming in. I think my wording is poorly chosen...I don't have any issue with you or your teaching style, in fact I've worked on a few of your lessons and found them fun and engaging...I simply meant that of the teachers I have followed you weren't my favorite, and that's totally Ok, everyone has preferences, I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me and it doesn't mean that you are a bad instructor in any way. Your video on setting up the kit was the very first video I watched, I appreciate all the free content you've put out there and I think you're playing is pretty kick ass. When you're the face of a company you're bound to take some heat...good on you for taking it in stride. Drumeo does have some aggressive marketing, I dont love it to be honest, but its marketing...I understand it. Other companies that offer great products have taken the same approach because it works. There has been a lot of negativity towards you and Drumeo on this site and I have always found it pretty unwarranted.
I just updated a couple things in my original post...I put a bit of a disclaimer at the top just to clarify my intentions with the post and I edited the Drumeo review a bit because I felt really bad about my wording there. Jared seems like a solid dude and I seriously meant no offense. Drumeo is an awesome product/brand.
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