comparing two new sets, Ludwig or DW?

*spoiler alert/time saver* (very long winded post about comparing two drum sets for purchase, details of two sets near bottom of post)

Hi, everyone. I'm new here. You all will probably be happy to know that when I googled "best drummer forum", drummerworld was the top result.
Typically, I just lurk when I do my information gathering on the web. But at this point, I may need to do the opposite.
For the record, I've been quietly researching a bunch over these last few weeks. But I need to ask a few questions. I'm about to buy a brand new drum set (shell pack, no snare). I'm not an expert. I decided to buy a good quality new American made set. I haven't had a chance to talk to an uninvolved party about my choices. Just the salesman at the store. Frankly, he seems friendly and helpful, but I'd still like to hear more opinions if at all possible.

I wish Slingerland still made drums. ...would be nice to finally scratch that itch from childhood. I still remember the smell of the brand new set I dreamily admired over the course of many weeks in my local music shop. Same as this set, even same color:

Not sure if it was the potent cocktail of fumes gassing off that beautiful new yellow drum set, or just my deep instinctive caveman lust for those drums, but something made me dizzy when I looked at them. OK, back to now.
I also had considered Gretsch, of course. In fact, I almost bought a set of Brooklyns, as Gretsch recently had a 25% off coupon that was working at Guitar Center.
Bringing my situation fully up to date, I had recently officially decided on Ludwig Legacy Classics. Being over 40, I've had many years to dream of owning a Ludwig set.
I read some opinions that Ludwig is allegedly lacking in innovation and even quality control these days. While others seem to insist one "can't go wrong" with a set of Ludwig Legacy Classics. I can't help but suspect they'd provide the sound I know and love, being born in 1969 and being raised on 70's rock. Like Slingerland, Ludwig is a brand of drums I spent part of my childhood dreaming about, so they definitely have that going for them.
I decided on the Ludwigs. I set out to custom order a set, to get exactly what I want.

I had already noticed a certain black Ludwig wrap that I liked. I placed my order. A couple days later, I got a note in my email. It explained that Ludwig would not make my drums in their "Black Glass Glitter" wrap after all, due to confessed quality control issues with that wrap. While I genuinely respect (and appreciate!) their good decision to steer me away from a wrap that might have proven to be very disappointing for me, I also can't help but hear the warnings of those people faintly echoing in my mind regarding quality control issues with new Ludwig drums. So while I'm thankful for Ludwig warning me, and doing the right thing, it also leaves me nervous about what other odd and unexpected problems might crop up that I might have to perhaps more painfully discover all by myself, much later.

The problem with the wrap put me off buying the Ludwigs for the moment. I've put the order on hold for a day two, while I decide what to do.
My mind now (*sigh*) begins to shift toward DW. I feel like I've never even heard of them before several weeks ago. I had decided to ignore them as a possibility while doing my shopping, though they do fall within my basic criteria of being good quality American made drums. Lots of people seem to be singing their praises. But I've never known about them. They're just not part of my history, per se.

But now I'm kind of leaning toward DW.
I found a set that compares with the Ludwigs I had configured.
Here:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/DW-Coll...ll-Pack-w-23--Bass-Drum-106677248-i2355717.gc
They're a lot like the Ludwig kit, on the surface. The Black Ice wrap is similar to the Black Glass Glitter I had originally selected. I'm old school, and I don't like the idea of both tom toms being lumped together on one side of the bass drum. If I could order the same DW set with a double tom holder built into the bass drum, I think I would. ...unless someone could convince me it was a really bad idea, of course.
And that's why I'm here, after all. Obviously, I don't know much about these things, and I need to hear the ideas of other people who do know.
Thanks in advance for ideas and comments!

Here's the two sets to compare, Ludwig being about $300 cheaper:

Ludwig set specifics (no snare):
Legacy Classic 4-piece ("Big Beat" configuration, except no snare)
12x8 tom tom
13x9 tom tom
16x16 floor
22x16 kick
all drums Black Glass Glitter
all drums Large Classic Lugs
all drums Legacy Vintage Keystone badges
Internal Tone control for all 3 Toms
Vibraband with Ludwig Classic Bracket for 2 Tom Toms
Ludwig Classic Legs for Floor Tom
Elite Kick Spurs for Bass
Ludwig Classic double Tom Holder for Bass
T-Handle tension rods for Bass
Made in the USA

vs

DW set specifics (no snare):
DW Collector's Series 4-Piece Shell Pack w/23" Bass Drum
all drums Black Ice wrap
6-ply and 7-ply tom shells
7-ply bass shells
Chrome hardware
DW suspension tom mounts (for increased drum resonance)
True-Pitch rod system w/5mm threads
10 x 8" VLT tom tom
12 x 9" VLT tom tom
16 x 14" X-Shell floor tom
23 x 18" X-Shell kick drum
Made in the USA


Also I read a thread with posts like this:
"The Legacy series doesn't have much going for it. Modern sizes and finishes with a stupid price tag." and "Yes they have the 3 ply shells, but they're offering modern sizes." To me, they seemed to be suggesting that the sizes for the Legacy Classics were not authentically vintage enough. ???
What do they mean? And what exactly are the authentic vintage sizes they would prefer to see configured into Legacy Classic shell packs?

A bit lengthy, I didn't get very far. But I will say that with DW and Ludwig, you've chosen two excellent companies, who make their own shells in the USA, and have fairly unique sounds compared to other mainstream drums. We all have somewhat different sounds we like to hear, so it's more of a subjective choice for you. For me, it was Ludwig.

kill said:

Also I read a thread with posts like this:
"The Legacy series doesn't have much going for it. Modern sizes and finishes with a stupid price tag." and "Yes they have the 3 ply shells, but they're offering modern sizes." To me, they seemed to be suggesting that the sizes for the Legacy Classics were not authentically vintage enough. ???
What do they mean? And what exactly are the authentic vintage sizes they would prefer to see configured into Legacy Classic shell packs?

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That is undoubtedly an old post, or if recent, made by someone who's not informed. Legacy drums - while initially introduced in 'power' sizes and just a few configurations and finishes - have been available for several years in a variety of sizes, lacquers and wraps.

Vintage size toms would be 8x12" and 9x13", and a vintage kick would be 14x22" (for example.) "Modern" sizes add depth, so today those toms might be 9 or 10x12", and 10 or 11x13", and the kick would be 16 or 18x22". The Legacy line offers all common sizes, new or old.

Bermuda

Kill,
You might want to double check the bass drum size for the DW set. 23x18 doesn't seem right to me. Good luck finding heads for it if it is indeed that size.

I personally love the Ludwigs, but you can't go wrong with either.

kill said:

I wish Slingerland still made drums. ..

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Stone Custom Drums are now making shells from Slingerland's machines. They're not the same configuration as the old Slingerland shells (frankly, probably better), but there is the connection there if you're strongly pulled in that direction.

My personal opinion only, if I only had the choice of the two brands you mention, I'd shoot for the Ludwigs

loki03xlh said:

Kill,
You might want to double check the bass drum size for the DW set. 23x18 doesn't seem right to me. Good luck finding heads for it if it is indeed that size.

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DW does make 23" kick drums. Last I checked Scott Travis from Judas Priest plays a kit with 2 of them. I do imagine that finding heads would be a pain though. You'd have to special order replacements every time.

My simple answer is the Ludwigs. )

I thought it was a typo too - a really bad typo because it was all over the GC site - but I checked DW's web site and DW makes a 23" bass drum.

Me, I'd take DW (with a 22" bass drum) all day long even though I hate DW lugs and own Ludwig drums. I think DW makes a better product.

loki03xlh said:

Kill,
You might want to double check the bass drum size for the DW set. 23x18 doesn't seem right to me. Good luck finding heads for it if it is indeed that size.

Click to expand...

DW has been making 23" bass drums for a few years now, it was developed for who else- Neil P.
I own both DW and the legacies, you're speaking apples and hard boiled eggs here there is is nothing similar in sound between the two of them. The Ludwigs are more towards the old school sound and have found them pretty touchy to tune. They are not as loud as the DW's. The DW's have a more 'whole note' sound and airy at the same time with a lot of resonance, some may say too much. My Ludwigs are in black glass glitter so no adding on for me and I hope i never have a problem with the wrap either, so far so good.

bermuda said:

Vintage size toms would be 8x12" and 9x13", and a vintage kick would be 14x22" (for example.) "Modern" sizes add depth, so today those toms might be 9 or 10x12", and 10 or 11x13", and the kick would be 16 or 18x22". The Legacy line offers all common sizes, new or old.

Bermuda

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Thanks for that information! I had really wondered about that, so I'm glad to finally learn.

keep it simple said:

Stone Custom Drums are now making shells from Slingerland's machines. They're not the same configuration as the old Slingerland shells (frankly, probably better), but there is the connection there if you're strongly pulled in that direction.

My personal opinion only, if I only had the choice of the two brands you mention, I'd shoot for the Ludwigs

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info about Stone Custom, I'm going to look into that some tonight. I also appreciate that you included your personal recommendation of which set I should I buy.

I would rather you go back and compare the Ludwig's with the Gretsch USA Customs. With Gretsch you will get 130 years of experience

pmancuso said:

DW has been making 23" bass drums for a few years now, it was developed for who else- Neil P.
I own both DW and the legacies, you're speaking apples and hard boiled eggs here there is is nothing similar in sound between the two of them. The Ludwigs are more towards the old school sound and have found them pretty touchy to tune. They are not as loud as the DW's. The DW's have a more 'whole note' sound and airy at the same time with a lot of resonance, some may say too much. My Ludwigs are in black glass glitter so no adding on for me and I hope i never have a problem with the wrap either, so far so good.

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I like apples and hard boiled eggs. But I would definitely take apples for my lifetime pick. ...so then, which set would that be? lol
The fact that they're really quite different should only make my choice easier, I would think. Just too bad I don't know more about them. From what you're saying, I think I would tend to avoid the DW's, as I believe I already approve of the Ludwig sound. Not sure I'd like the (potentially excessive) resonance you mentioned with the DW's. My real problem is, neither type of set I'm wanting is on display at my local music store. Yes, I've listened to several YouTube vids, but I really can't trust the audio recordings from those vids.
Honestly, if you had to get rid of either your Legacys or your Collector's, what would you choose and why?
I suspect I may not be not sophisticated enough to love two things exactly the same amount.

That 23" bass drum may be cool, but it sounds like a PITA for head selection. Quality wise I would say the DW is better. I have heard Ludwig's hardware lugs, etc. is a bit crap (ie. not up to the price point you are paying for the kit). The DW stuff is actually quite nice for hardware if you can get over the Camco turret lugs.

For sound, I find the DW drums have a wet/fat sound. I don't find them to have much tone or a note. Just a thundering thud of a sound. They don't sing a note though. The Ludwig I would say sing a bit more than the DW's. It could just be a head selection issue, but that has been my experience. It depends on what type of sound you want.

In conclusion, DW's fit and finish may be better, but if you don't like their sound, ie. thud, thud, thud, then the Ludwig's are a better choice.

GRUNTERSDAD said:

I would rather you go back and compare the Ludwig's with the Gretsch USA Customs. With Gretsch you will get 130 years of experience

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Somewhere along the way I drifted away from Gretsch because it seemed to be being praised more for jazz, than rock. And I do think I would probably want the rock sound. I have no doubts about Gretsch quality. BTW, like Ludwig, it seemed hard (impossible?) to actually price a set of Gretsch USA Customs without actually configuring a set and submitting that configuration to a dealer. Frankly, I'm stunned at how difficult it is to buy a high end set from Ludwig, for example. No matter how much money you're prepared to immediately spend, you still can't just easily click and buy something. It's unfortunately way more complicated than that.
I'm very conscious of the fact that DW might end up getting my sale merely due to the fact that they have several configurations in my range that I can simply click on to buy. That's intelligent/superior marketing, if you ask me. I honestly feel Ludwig has made it too difficult for a guy like me to buy their best offering. I need something to just click. Surely, I'm not the only one who's been held off by the relative complication of that process. ...Anyway, I've moved past that particular roadblock now, so at this point it's just an observation I made.

If I were standing with both sets before me and told I could have one of them,
I'd be taking home the Ludwigs.

(Not my sizes, but still....)

wildbill said:

If I were standing with both sets before me and told I could have one of them,
I'd be taking home the Ludwigs.

(Not my sizes, but still....)

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If they gave you the option to adjust the sizes of the 4 Ludwig drums, what sizes would you select? And if you don't mind, could you include a bit about "why", please?

10, 12, 14, 20.

Just a personal preference.

After trying a bunch, it's like the Goldilocks 3 bears story - 'this one's too big, this one's too small, but this one is just right.'

Depth is just as important as diameter though.
I can't deal with those power tom size depths.
Not too keen on those pancake depth drums either.

The only thing I don't like about you Ludwig spec is the lack of Atlas mounts. Seems like all the hardware is old-school, which is cool, but specing mounts might sway me towards the Luddies even more.

I've owned 3 Collectors kits and now play a Keystone. The Keystone stands up to the DW's in all ways. And I like the DW 'sound'. So, not much help to ya.

My DW's sound just as I described they are not thuddy at all believe me. As far as Ludwig lugs being cheap - no way they are heavy duty, it's the DW lugs that are thin and crappy. I have nothing bad to say about either one oh yeah the DW bass drum spurs are cheapo and keep loosening up.
I'm still experimenting with heads on the Ludwigs at the moment I'm running G2's over G1's and they are not quite doing it for me. They sound o.k. but not what I want.
If some one put a gun to my head to get rid of one of the kits it would probably be the Ludwig's only because it's a 4 piecer the DW's are 7.
If anyone else owns the legacies please let me know what top heads you feel are the best fit for them. I'm going to try black dots next time I need to change out.

Also just call Dales Drum Shop in Pa. ask for Rejjie, great price and they are well connected at Ludwig.

pmancuso said:

My DW's sound just as I described they are not thuddy at all believe me. As far as Ludwig lugs being cheap - no way they are heavy duty, it's the DW lugs that are thin and crappy. I have nothing bad to say about either one oh yeah the DW bass drum spurs are cheapo and keep loosening up.
I'm still experimenting with heads on the Ludwigs at the moment I'm running G2's over G1's and they are not quite doing it for me. They sound o.k. but not what I want.
If some one put a gun to my head to get rid of one of the kits it would probably be the Ludwig's only because it's a 4 piecer the DW's are 7.
If anyone else owns the legacies please let me know what top heads you feel are the best fit for them. I'm going to try black dots next time I need to change out.

Also just call Dales Drum Shop in Pa. ask for Rejjie, great price and they are well connected at Ludwig.

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...just for balance, Dale's is well connected to DW as well--one of their biggest dealers. Good luck with your decision.