3 Ply 60's drums?

What's so special about 3 ply drum shells from the 60s'? A big deal is made about them and their sound on drum forums (not just the different woods either). Are they measurably thinner, thus sound all the more different? Is that why they used the re-rings that you don't see on drums younger than 1976 or so? This interests me and am looking for a good source for evolution of construction of drum shells say from 1930's to now. thanks for any input.

harry, thanks for that. despite all the new heads, i still prefer the old standards ambassadors. is there an online source beside vinatge drums website, or a book reference for all that knowledge that somebody has collated.

opentune said:

harry, thanks for that. despite all the new heads, i still prefer the old standards ambassadors. is there an online source beside vinatge drums website, or a book reference for all that knowledge that somebody has collated.

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Slingerland in the 60's used 3 ply maple/poplar/mahogany as well as single ply maple in snare drums.They went to 5 ply without re rings in the late 70'sThey also made their own shells like Ludwig.

Rogers shells were made by Keller and varied between 3 and 5 ply maple/poplar with and without re rings.Some of the shell interiors were spray painted in grey primer,and some in granitone grey.Rogers was considered the Caddilac of drums,and were the most expensive.

Gretsch also didn't make their own shells.They were made by now out of business Jasper.Gretsch also painted the interior of their with galvanized fence paint,from the 50's into the 60's

Ludwig also started painting the interior of all their keystone drums with off white Benjamine Moore house paint in the 60's.

When talking about the late 50's and 60's 3 ply drum shells,we forget about George Way and Camco drums.Among a lot of players,and even today,Camco drums are considered the best sounding drums ever made.I don't know if you know about Camco,but that is where DW started.Camco shells were made by Jasper,and later by Keller after they moved to California.


There are a few books out there still in print and are a great reference tool,as well as the Vintage Drum Forum.You should start with start with a book titled strangely enough "Guide to Vintage Drums" by John Aldridge.There are other recognized experts out there such as Harry Cangany,Rob Cook and Chet Falzerano.

It really is a fascinating subject,and the the more you learn,the more you realize that there is just so many things you don't know.You will also start to understand why its important to save as many vintage drums as possible from alteration.

Friends don't let friends drill holes.

Steve B

Ya this all started with orphan drums I've been buying on the bay. I researched before I bought them, and was specifically after '3 ply' 60's just to hear and play them. I picked up a few Slingerlands (now have 12-16-20) and wow, they sounded different immediately right out the box from my 90's Gretsch kit. Sure the bearings differ, but I also noticed the great construction, and all this really started fascinating me. I realize hardware is important, but older drum shell construction and sound is quite different and I was trying to figure out the evolution of all this.

opentune said:

Ya this all started with orphan drums I've been buying on the bay. I researched before I bought them, and was specifically after '3 ply' 60's just to hear and play them. I picked up a few Slingerlands (now have 12-16-20) and wow, they sounded different immediately right out the box from my 90's Gretsch kit. Sure the bearings differ, but I also noticed the great construction, and all this really started fascinating me. I realize hardware is important, but older drum shell construction and sound is quite different and I was trying to figure out the evolution of all this.

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This is why I preach the gospel of hands off and don't do anything to alter a vintage drum.Yes I know most of the hardware sucked,but there is a work around for that without drilling more holes in the shell,which changes the sound.

I also can't see buying a set of vintage drums,who's color or wrap you don't like,but is still in good condition,and rewrapping them.The sound of those drums is almost impossible to reproduce theres days,although Ludwig Legacy is real close.

The materials they used back then,and construction methods don't for the most part exist any more.Mahogany believe it or not in a wood native to the US.Its almost all gone now.They used to put formaldahide in the glues they used,which were highly flamable and are illegal now.The wraps they use now are a different chemical base,and are also highly flamable, than those in use today.Lacquer finishes are mostly done without any "lacquer" at all.Clear polymers are used instead.

Just wait till you really get into it.

Steve B

opentune said:

harry, thanks for that. despite all the new heads, i still prefer the old standards ambassadors. is there an online source beside vinatge drums website, or a book reference for all that knowledge that somebody has collated.

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The Slingerland 3ply rerings seemed to resonant more than ludwigs and for me were more versatile if you worked in jazz and blues and rock also the Slingerlands had a great blues and jazz sound and the ludwigs seemed better for rock because they produced are flatter dead sound in comparison. The Ludwigs seemed to be heavier in weight too so that has something to do with resonanting I'd guess. The rerings were for structural integrity because the shells were very thin and the companies main concerns back then were the drums moving out of round. I was originally from the New England area and in the 50 thru the 60s Slingerland was the most popular drum set to own and second would be Gretsch then Camco. The Ludwigs were actually even I'd say with the Gretsch product but alot of those sales were to kids beginning not pro drummers earning. They were all very good then and other than the improvements on hardware for the drums and the pedals and stands the shells then were as good at producing their sound as the shells are today at doing the same. Its always about the thickness of the walls to me and ofcourse a quality selection of woods. Doc

Doctor Dirt said:

I was originally from the New England area and in the 50 thru the 60s Slingerland was the most popular drum set to own and second would be Gretsch then Camco. The Ludwigs were actually even I'd say with the Gretsch product but alot of those sales were to kids beginning not pro drummers earning. They were all very good then and other than the improvements on hardware for the drums and the pedals and stands the shells then were as good at producing their sound as the shells are today at doing the same. Its always about the thickness of the walls to me and ofcourse a quality selection of woods. Doc

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Ya interesting what became of Slingerland and Camco, say compared to Gretsch and Ludwig. Some would say Ringo changed everything for Ludwig's future. Of course, Slingerland had big names on their catalogue pages too, long before, like Krupa and Rich.

opentune said:

Ya interesting what became of Slingerland and Camco, say compared to Gretsch and Ludwig. Some would say Ringo changed everything for Ludwig's future. Of course, Slingerland had big names on their catalogue pages too, long before, like Krupa and Rich.

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Gibson guitars still owns the Slingerland name,and Tama still owns the Camco name.Its a shame that there aren't drums being produced under both of those names.H.H.Slingerland,and George Way wherever they are, must be scratching their heads.Those two companys produced some of the best sounding drums on the planet.Not bad for a company who originally made banjos and guitars,and one who just made hardware.

Steve B

opentune said:

Are they measurably thinner, thus sound all the more different? Is that why they used the re-rings that you don't see on drums younger than 1976 or so?

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Ludwigs and Slinglerlands had 3 plies: inner ply at 1/16", middle ply at 1/8", and outer ply at 1/16". That adds up to 1/4" thick, plus any "humps" where the plies joined. They are thicker than modern-day thin shells, which are often 3/16" thick. They are sought after because they sound like nothing offered today (except for the Legacy drums, and some custom companies that reproduce the shell composition, too...).

I have always had an affection for the Slingerlands of the 60s.
I feel that these drums produced a wonderful tone in an un-mic'd live setting.
Rogers is my second choice. (A very close second)

Gretsch vs Slingerland

The reason why 3 ply sounds better than 6 is in my opinion the amount of glue used to glue the plies together.
Glue deaden the sound and there is less glue between 3 ply than 6.

Another thing is the diecast hoops, thats a big deal!
Diecast makes the drum drier and gives less ring.
The die cast and the fact that Gretsch (round badge) have no airwent holes in the tom shells is a major part of the gretsch sound.

I love the sound of mahogany/poplar/mahogany and bought shells from Precision drum company. I did not drill a air hole and put die cast on them, but I did not get my prefered sound before i drilled airwent and got back to triple flanged hoops.

But I also love the gretsch sound for jazz, it is absolutely great for that.