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  #201  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Heh, yes, well I think my point was about the propability and discussions ending rather than him being anything. Doesn't matter what anybody thinks. It's a dead horse. =P
Exactly! Or maybe it would be better to say that it's a dying horse. The fun is in seeing how long we can keep the horse alive. Some of these threads become epic, legendary even.
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  #202  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

I've got my popcorn made!
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  #203  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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I think that Hitler probably studied BR to see how being a dictator was done! ;)
Yes, that's what we need to be talking about, the secret meeting that took place between Buddy Rich and Adolph Hitler.
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  #204  
Old 09-27-2010, 03:03 AM
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why would anyone listen to a bunch of nobody's when they have Buddy to learn from. Just about everything he says is totally opposite than what I'm hearing here.
He didn't think much of Led Zepp either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19OzX...eature=related. Should I burn my records?

I've seen your band playing Misty Mountain Hop. Will you drop it from the set list on Buddy's say so?
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:49 AM
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  #205  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:03 AM
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Guys, did anyone really not know that original arranger quote wasn't Buddy Rich and that Stickit thought he was going to be clever as if any of us didn't know that.

I'll simply insert a name into a common quote my grandfather makes about suspicious drummers who invoke the name of Buddy Rich.

I knew Buddy Rich.
Buddy Rich was a friend of mine.
But Stickit you're no Buddy Rich.

Continue discussion.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I got that quote from the Modern Drummer interview Buddy did back in 1978 I believe.

Here it is again....all I did was copy and paste.

MD - I believe there's a music school in the East where the professors prefer that their students do not know how to read music. Their belief is that students can learn more by playing by ear. What do you think about that?

BR - That's right. But, I think it's very important that you read. I think you should read in order to know what the chart is all about. But, I don't think any arranger should ever write a drum part for a drummer because if a drummer can't create his own Interpretation of the chart and he plays everything that's written, he becomes mechanical; he has no freedom.
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  #206  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Gotta say, I never met BR personally, but I've shared the stage with some of the people who have played in his band - Bobby Shew being one. These all seem like reasonable guys. I doubt they would put up with much nonsense. I think BR had one persona that he played to interviewers and another that he was in person. I've certainly heard that he was very tough to work with at times, but I honestly think a lot of what he said in interviews was supposed to be provocative and supposed to get you thinking. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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  #207  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:13 AM
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It's just occured to me that the topic of this thread does in no way concern you, does it? There are metal drumming threads up here all the time. I don't go to them, much less post on them, because the topics of those threads do not concern me. I know nothing about metal drumming.

And you know nothing about reading music, and that's fine! I'm fine with not knowing how to play metal drums. But if reading music does not concern you then why do you keep even reading this thread? You've made it clear that learning music for you would be a waste of your time, and yet you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time putting posts up on a thread whose topic does not concern you.

Makes no sense.
Oh, I see, only the elite can respond here? The topic was about whether or not reading was important, or what is the deal with these silly reading/technique threads? I find it interesting how those who have a skill others don't, think that everyone should learn that skill.
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  #208  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Oh, I see, only the elite can respond here? The topic was about whether or not reading was important, or what is the deal with these silly reading/technique threads? I thinks it's interesting how those who have a skill others don't think that everyone should learn that skill.
Oh that's ridiculous. "Elite."

As I said, I don't read or post on metal drumming threads because I don't know anything about metal drumming. Metal drumming threads aren't for the elite, they're for drummers who play metal. And I've never seen where a drummer who has the skills to play metal said that everyone should learn that skill.

So it seems obvious to me that a thread about reading music would be of interest only to those of us who either know how to read or want to learn how to read. If reading music doesn't concern you then why should you care?
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  #209  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Jay,
If you're a jazz drummer you know a heck of a lot more about modern metal than you think you do. Modern metal is something to take a look at. It may not be for you but it is nothing to dismiss. I'm quite positive that if you have a jazz background, you'll get very well where modern metal drumming is coming from.
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  #210  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:23 AM
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The guitarist/slide/banjo/mandolin player in my band is an Eastman grad, he has a lot of private students and he teaches highschool music theory. He's not Mozart, but he's a damned good musician and his opinion hold some weight for me. He doesn't encourage any of his private students to learn music. He believes a developed ear is essential.
I agree. I don't necessarily think it's an either or situation though.
I respect drummers who have learned to read music, but I've always had a lot of trouble with it, so I abandoned it. I have compensated by developing my ear, and I've managed pretty well. So, I don't consider drummers who can't read music to be incomplete in any way.
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  #211  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Jay,
If you're a jazz drummer you know a heck of a lot more about modern metal than you think you do. Modern metal is something to take a look at. It may not be for you but it is nothing to dismiss. I'm quite positive that if you have a jazz background, you'll get very well where modern metal drumming is coming from.
K
Heck no I don't dismiss metal drumming. I don't dismiss any good drumming. Those guys blow me away with the stuff they're doing. It's just that the music doesn't interest me, it's not my thing. But I have a lot of respect for the abilities of those players.
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  #212  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:35 AM
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The guitarist/slide/banjo/mandolin player in my band is an Eastman grad, he has a lot of private students and he teaches highschool music theory. He's not Mozart, but he's a damned good musician and his opinion hold some weight for me. He doesn't encourage any of his private students to learn music. He believes a developed ear is essential.
I agree. I don't necessarily think it's an either or situation though.
I respect drummers who have learned to read music, but I've always had a lot of trouble with it, so I abandoned it. I have compensated by developing my ear, and I've managed pretty well. So, I don't consider drummers who can't read music to be incomplete in any way.
Interesting. I have no idea what an Eastman graduate may or may not learn. So the only question I'd have here is, can the guy read of his own accord and just chooses not to teach the skill.....or can he not read himself and therefore doesn't teach it because he can't? Two different scenarios. Can you clarify?
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  #213  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Interesting. I have no idea what an Eastman graduate may or may not learn. So the only question I'd have here is, can the guy read of his own accord and just chooses not to teach the skill.....or can he not read himself and therefore doesn't teach it because he can't? Two different scenarios. Can you clarify?
If he's a graduate of Eastman then I guarantee you that he can read.
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  #214  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Interesting. I have no idea what an Eastman graduate may or may not learn. So the only question I'd have here is, can the guy read of his own accord and just chooses not to teach the skill.....or can he not read himself and therefore doesn't teach it because he can't? Two different scenarios. Can you clarify?
He can read music.
His attitude is that if a student wants to learn to read music, fine and good. But when he want's a student to learn a song they must do so by ear. He never uses charts as a teaching tool
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  #215  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:43 AM
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If he's a graduate of Eastman then I guarantee you that he can read.
Thanks Jay and el.......that was my assumption, but it was worth checking that the call was made due to choice rather than limitation.
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  #216  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:46 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Gotta say, I never met BR personally, but I've shared the stage with some of the people who have played in his band - Bobby Shew being one. These all seem like reasonable guys. I doubt they would put up with much nonsense. I think BR had one persona that he played to interviewers and another that he was in person. I've certainly heard that he was very tough to work with at times, but I honestly think a lot of what he said in interviews was supposed to be provocative and supposed to get you thinking. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I was of course too young to have known him personally, but as I've mentioned before my dad and grandfather both worked with him, and although dad especially says that some of the persona was true, they both say that much of the provocative things he said especially were said only to pull the chain of characters who read everything out of context or know just enough to be dangerous.

I shared this story already once before where Rich supposedly fired dad over some kind of nonsense then turned around and paid an entire semester of his university tuition without asking.

I really think that's probably a personality a little too complex to be ignorantly quoted out of context in a goofy thread like this.

Whoaaa...another Stickit quote in another person's post. Creepy.

BTW You know Stickit was an excellent Buddy Rich album, probably my favorite of the RCA series. That "Time Being" was a sensational chart.
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  #217  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:55 AM
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I love it when someone says If I brushed up a bit I could play an orchestra gig. HAHAHAHA!!!!!
Yeah this thread has become the gift that keeps on giving, and is maybe my very favorite of the silly ones in 5 years of posting here.

I also admire how the whole thing has after a million posts mostly stayed within reasonable enough boundaries to probably not be locked or erased.

I hope it lasts forever, or at least until I have to go back to work.
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  #218  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:09 AM
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I was of course too young to have known him personally, but as I've mentioned before my dad and grandfather both worked with him, and although dad especially says that some of the persona was true, they both say that much of the provocative things he said especially were said only to pull the chain of characters who read everything out of context or know just enough to be dangerous.

I shared this story already once before where Rich supposedly fired dad over some kind of nonsense then turned around and paid an entire semester of his university tuition without asking.

I really think that's probably a personality a little too complex to be ignorantly quoted out of context in a goofy thread like this.

Whoaaa...another Stickit quote in another person's post. Creepy.

BTW You know Stickit was an excellent Buddy Rich album, probably my favorite of the RCA series. That "Time Being" was a sensational chart.
Regardless if Buddy meant it or not, at least concede that he did say it, I mean the quote about the arranger.
BTW, how's your right foot? I mean, do you have a fast right foot? Just curious.
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  #219  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:42 AM
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I hate the Jets immensely.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:41 AM
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  #220  
Old 09-27-2010, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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I was observant...observant enough to notice that you were not one of those who celebrated an inability to read music. Now please go back and see if I mentioned you in any way. What I observed was that a reasonable poster had mistakedly assumed we were attacking everyone with the viewpoint that reading was not always essential for what they wanted out of music. I even asked Is that fair so as not to associate you specifically with some of these other guys who are touting their ignorance a positive lifestyle decision.

Did I also actually read someone call music readers Ivory Tower?




Oh I'm sorry you were talking about somebody else?

Look, why not just take your axe to the pms?

Man, this is the single goofiest thread I've ever seen here, and that's saying a lot.

Great post Aeolian.
My apologies Matt, so you did, I realise now that my response is ironic.

I just feel sometimes that if someone choses to do things differently that most members on the forum look down their noses or jump on their backs.

I realise there are a couple of posters who fall into the 'ignorance is bliss' category and this attitude is wrong. But also the 'you do it differently so you are wrong' attitude is equally as bad and simply does not help people on here at all.

Sorry again for the confusion, maybe I need to brush up on my reading =P
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  #221  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:18 PM
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I shared this story already once before where Rich supposedly fired dad over some kind of nonsense then turned around and paid an entire semester of his university tuition without asking.
I've heard similar things from various people. He did a lot of people a lot of good turns. I guess I'd have to agree, he had a complex personality. A few less desirable moments mixed with some pretty amazingly kind moments.

Quote:
BTW You know Stickit was an excellent Buddy Rich album, probably my favorite of the RCA series. That "Time Being" was a sensational chart.
I haven't heard Stickit but Time Being is one hell of an album. Little Train is one of my all time favorite charts. Paul's Tune is also fairly tasty. The only tracks on that album I've been able to play with a band are Space Shuttle, Straight no Chaser and Dancing Men.
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  #222  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:36 PM
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Sorry to state this again, but surely only those who can read are qualified to discuss reading??? I would not challenge a person on Mandarin if I did not speak Mandarin. Seriously. I challenge any person to speak of the negative conotations of speaking Mandarin in China.
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  #223  
Old 09-27-2010, 02:54 PM
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Sorry to state this again, but surely only those who can read are qualified to discuss reading??? I would not challenge a person on Mandarin if I did not speak Mandarin. Seriously. I challenge any person to speak of the negative conotations of speaking Mandarin in China.
Just covering my back, I can read the basics, believe it or not, I learnt the introductions to swing and samba through reading music but i have never developed it.

Urgh all of this is actually making me want to read properly, I might just start.

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Old 09-27-2010, 04:22 PM
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  #224  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:24 PM
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Well I don't know about him, but I learned that when you play a lot of his music, it's wise to have some music in front of you.

For example... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kAqaR3hjhI
I never saw Buddy with music in front of him. What interview was that in?

Last edited by Stickit; 09-27-2010 at 04:49 PM.
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  #225  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:43 PM
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No problems man. I knew it was a misunderstanding.

Hey Average, I'm pretty sure Time Being was a cut on the Stick it album, unless there was some kind of compilation issued later called Time Being
I think Time Being the song was originally released on 'Rich in London' but its hard to tell for sure. Time Being the album I think was released as a compilation by RCA in 1987. Its totally worth a listen, just for Little Train alone.
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  #226  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:51 PM
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Here ya go, funny, I see everyone in the band but Buddy with sheet music, go figure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYubfQt7s3o
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  #227  
Old 09-27-2010, 04:58 PM
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Godwin's law on this board:

"As an online discussion grows longer on DrummerWorld, the probability of an argument involving Buddy Rich and what he may or may not have said approaches 1. Whether you agree with the stament(s) or not the discussion is over."
HA!

But only Nazis invoke Godwin's law.
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  #228  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:06 PM
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Here ya go, funny, I see everyone in the band but Buddy with sheet music, go figure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYubfQt7s3o
You do know Buddy Rich's background? How many of today's musicians can have that kind of life? Not many, therefore we practice our asses off, and part of that process is learning to read so that the practice would be more optimal. So that we could have even a slightest of chance to catch up with Riches of the world.

What if I told you that I don't particularly enjoy the music Buddy Rich played. Who would be the next person you would quote on this matter?
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  #229  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:19 PM
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Sometimes I wonder how many of the Buddy Rich legends are even 100% true.

"Buddy Rich never took lessons"...

"Buddy Rich never practiced"...

"Buddy Rich couldn't read music"...

etc. etc. etc.

All of these legends about Buddy lead us to the same conclusion that Buddy was an absolute freak of nature with no rational explanation for any of his skills. Might it be possible that some of these legends are a bit exaggerated, maybe even by Buddy himself? I seem to remember Joe Morello saying that the legend of Buddy never practicing was complete nonsense. It makes me wonder if the same might be the case for some of the other Buddy legends. I guess the joke would really be on us if Buddy actually was a whiz at reading! I'm not saying that is the case because I honestly don't know. I'm just saying that I personally wouldn't rule it out as an impossibility.
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  #230  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:29 PM
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You do know Buddy Rich's background? How many of today's musicians can have that kind of life? Not many, therefore we practice our asses off, and part of that process is learning to read so that the practice would be more optimal. So that we could have even a slightest of chance to catch up with Riches of the world.

What if I told you that I don't particularly enjoy the music Buddy Rich played. Who would be the next person you would quote on this matter?
Well, I only posted the video because young Matt said he learned from Buddy that it was important to have music while you were playing.
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  #231  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:31 PM
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Sometimes I wonder how many of the Buddy Rich legends are even 100% true.

"Buddy Rich never took lessons"...

"Buddy Rich never practiced"...

"Buddy Rich couldn't read music"...

etc. etc. etc.
Here is John La Barbera's take on the Buddy myths:

"At the risk of further popularizing a certain piece of underground trash, I would like to address the notorious Buddy Rich "scream tape" that has become "gospel" in the history of the "World's Greatest Drummer."

First of all let me say that having worked with just about every version of Buddy's band (as player, arranger, confidant, or producer) including the one on the tape, these kids got off easy, to say the least.

Yes indeed that's Buddy spewing put-downs and obscenities at a few of his band members and yes, on its own, the tape paints the fearless leader as a foul-mouth bully. And yes, in today's politically correct world, Buddy certainly wouldn't win any "manager of the month" awards, but keep in mind that we're talking about the music business, specifically the big band jazz world and Deming's management techniques don't wash in this world. Every band Buddy ever had was subject to his brand of leadership and, just like the real world, one either learned from these experiences and got stronger or washed out.

I joined Buddy Rich's band as a trumpet player in January of 1968 and still look back at that period as one of the highlights of my career. For a trumpet player freshly groomed at Berklee School of Music, Buddy's band represented the pinnacle of success and it was the beginning of a musical education that I could never have acquired within the confines of academia. Some lessons sink in right away and others take some time. Here's a sample of one of my more memorable lessons.

After a month at the Sands in Las Vegas and a whirlwind schedule of record dates in L.A., gigs with Sergio Mendes, and others, we embarked on a European tour with Tony Bennett. That in itself could be a mini-series but I'll concentrate on Buddy.

Because Buddy's previous tour with just the band (1967) wasn't well received (according to the bookers), it was decided by the agents that Buddy's new band could be best introduced to the British audiences by coupling him with a known quantity, Tony. The band opened the shows for the first set and Bennett would do the closer. It was a phenomenal combination and Buddy's reputation (as a bandleader) blossomed. Every night being sold out added to the excitement of the crowd and the band. The band had the highest respect for Tony (rare for a singer) and the quality of the performance. When he sang Robert Farnon's Country Girl with just the accompaniment of John Bunch's piano, the house was absolutely silent and we literally held our breath during this segment of the show.

In the middle of our tour we hit Birmingham (then quite the working class town) and Buddy pulled out all the stops to win over this tough audience. I can't remember all the charts he called but I know he ended with the West Side Story medley and it was a smash with the crowd. As an encore he called "Love For Sale" and if you aren't familiar with the chart, suffice it to say that there is a drum break before a modulation that has become somewhat of a signature for Buddy. His lightning speed roll in this break has been copied (or should I say attempted) by just about every big band drummer I know.

That night he blew the break. Totally blew it and stopped the band. We were in shock. Having never experienced this before, we just looked around at each other. The audience was deadly silent. Buddy yelled to Pat (my brother acted as musical director at times because Buddy couldn't read music) "pick it up before the break." Pat yelled out the appropriate rehearsal number and we were off again. As you can well imagine, this time he nailed it and the audience went nuts. I wouldn't have wanted to be Tony trying to follow that. But this isn't the end of the story.

Years later Buddy and I were hanging out in his Lincoln Plaza apartment one night after a gig trying to find something edible in his refrigerator. Not as Spartan as Mel's (Torme) but still few choices so we did the usual, ordered take out from Patsy's (Buddy & Sinatra's favorite eatery since the late 40's). While we waited for the delivery I reminded him of that night in Birmingham and casually asked, "Buddy, did you blow that fill on purpose for the show business value or did you really blow it?" What came next was probably the most intense "lecture" I've ever received from him.

After he cooled off he told me never in his professional career did he ever give less than 100 % and the idea of shortchanging the music for a cheap shot would be akin to artistic murder. We talked about his early days and the necessity for professionalism in all aspects of playing (and writing). I wish I had a tape recording of that talk!

The more I thought about this, the easier it was for me to understand many of his "moods" and "tantrums" when players didn't give their all. I'm sure that was the case with those on the receiving end on that famous tape. So if someone brings up the infamous Buddy Rich "scream tape" to you, be aware that those particular band members got off easy. I just hope they learned something."

...
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  #232  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:41 PM
JPW JPW is offline
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

So did I understand this correctly, Buddy didn't need to be able to read since he had a guy do it for him. =P So if you are in that position, then by all means go for it. =P
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  #233  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:51 PM
TFITTING942
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

Aydee, when does the movie come out? Thats so cool.
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  #234  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:53 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Aydee, when does the movie come out? Thats so cool.
What a great idea! Who do you think could play him?

...
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  #235  
Old 09-27-2010, 05:58 PM
Stickit
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

BTW, does anyone know if this guy can read?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWQ5pSWvK5g

Last edited by Stickit; 09-27-2010 at 06:27 PM.
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  #236  
Old 09-27-2010, 06:00 PM
JPW JPW is offline
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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May I suggest the young Matt Smith, after all he already thinks he's the second coming....he, he

Juat a joke Matt, take it as a compliment.

BTW, does anyone know if this guy can read?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWQ5pSWvK5g
Oh no you didn't just do that...

(Seriously, I should have expected that one to be the next logical choice for a weapon... But I didn't, and now I'm giggling.)
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  #237  
Old 09-27-2010, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Originally Posted by Stickit View Post
May I suggest the young Matt Smith, after all he already thinks he's the second coming....he, he

Juat a joke Matt, take it as a compliment.

BTW, does anyone know if this guy can read?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWQ5pSWvK5g
News alert.....

I see a pattern now folks i've seen before...... a very sad one at that.

Hey Stickit are you a previously banned member who's come back under another name with the same old baggage in tow? It is the internet of "hidden faces" after all and I have no idea who you are.

Just asking cause something starting to smell real funny here in a old familiar way to me....thanks :}
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  #238  
Old 09-27-2010, 06:27 PM
Stickit
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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Oh no you didn't just do that...

(Seriously, I should have expected that one to be the next logical choice for a weapon... But I didn't, and now I'm giggling.)
I'm actually not the biggest Neil Peart fan, I'm just curious.

Matt, I didn't mean anything by my statement about you being the second coming, I apologize, I thought it was funny at the time, but now realize it was a bit derrogatory. You are a fine drummer and should be proud of your accomplishments. Deep down, I wish I had persued more in my musical education.

Last edited by Stickit; 09-27-2010 at 09:46 PM.
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  #239  
Old 09-27-2010, 06:37 PM
TFITTING942
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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What a great idea! Who do you think could play him?

...
hahaha Burgess Merideth? hahah
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:36 PM
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  #240  
Old 09-27-2010, 08:41 PM
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con struct con struct is offline
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Default Re: What Is The Deal With These Silly Reading/Technique Threads?

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So did I understand this correctly, Buddy didn't need to be able to read since he had a guy do it for him. =P So if you are in that position, then by all means go for it. =P
Well, no. He couldn't read so he had to have another drummer run down new arrangements. Sammy Nestico talked about bringing some new arrangements to Rich's band and how RIch would listen to the arrangement once and then get on the drums and nail it cold.
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