Paying to Play?

anthmkc

Junior Member
I moved to another state to play with a band last year. I don't receive any money playing with this gig. I knew this going into it but I was really using it as a stepping stone and to play music in a good market. This band has been playing for 10+ years and all of the other members have good jobs so the lack of band income isn't hurting them at all. The rhythm section is new and the bass player makes 70,000 per year so he doesn't care about not getting paid (really it's more of a hobby for him anyway considering he can't play out of town gigs during the week). Everyone that I've told about my role and arrangement with the band says that they'd get out or demand compensation. The only money that I ever see is paid hotel and maybe a meal or two when we're on the road and as you guys know, sticks and heads are not cheap. We're in the process of recording an album and playing shows here and there but I've recently lost my job so my money situation is getting REALLY crucial. I don't really want to leave the band but I'm getting offers to play with PAYING bands in the area.

The thing that gets me is that the lead singer is a really good business person. He handles all of our finances and books all of our gigs. In the 9 months that I've been in this band I've never heard anything about actually being a real member of the band, signed anything, or recently anything to do with my involvement of the record we're recording. The band isn't exactly making much money and they're in debt from recording but they all know that I'm not working and getting behind on bills. I just don't understand. If a member of my band needed money I'd try to help in some form. I've even told them that I'd be willing to sleep in the van and pay for my own food on the road and they can give me whatever after we play gigs.

I kinda slipped this into the conversation with one of the founding members of the band the other day. I asked him how many drummers this band has had and he said I was the 13th! Can you believe that? Insane right?

Do you guys have any advice for me? I don't know what I should do. I'm about to say screw it, quit, and possibly move. One guy said that I should get them to acknowledge me as a hired gun and not a member of the band so they'd pay me for recording the album. What do you think?
 
It does not sound like a good situation for you, they probably have no intention of moving up or on or whatever. They probably have fun and that is fine but it can not be fun for you. If you are looking to make this a career then you need to check out your options. I wonder why they go through so many drummers? Have they all been in your situation or have they had drummers who are also financially viable? If the band is really good and you feel that they need you then perhaps something can be worked out but I doubt it, they can replace you with number 15. Find a way to stay while checking out other income so you can, or move on. Use your common sense, That would be my brotherly advice.
All the best to you.
 
WOW! I agree, you are being used.

What happened to the other 13 drummers?

Obviously they don't really care about you or your well-being. The fact that they all have jobs and you don't right now seems to be OK with them. Do they know your financial situation? If not, tell them up front. Tell them that you need compensation immediately. Are they willing to pay you or support you? If they play a few gigs but are not really making any money, it may very well be that they are in it as a hobby and the record and studio time are just bragging rights. Fun to tell at parties and such.

My gut says to leave that band and join up with the bands that have paying gigs now. When it comes down to it, you have to eat, pay bills, etc. just like anybody else. They have NO RIGHT to expect you to play for free. If the situation was the other way around and you had a good paying job and they didn't, would they stay around working for free, or would they look for another band with paying gigs?

From what you have said, it sounds a lot like you are being used. And probably so were the previous 13 drummers. My fatherly advice says to get away from them as fast as you can. Don't walk away, but run!

Good luck. Please keep us informed as to your decision.
 
I think the reason they've gone through so many drummers is because the lead singer is really hard to get along with (doesn't know how to turn off his "inner rock star" when he leaves the stage). The original drummer was of course a founding member but he got married and moved last summer and is also in school. I don't know exactly what's happened over the course of there existence but I think they'd have a drummer who'd play for a while, he'd quit, and they'd call the original guy. I don't think any of them have ever gotten paid except the 1st guy.

The band's okay. I only say okay because it's a punk/rock band and it's not really my cup-o-tea. We've had some label reps come check us out a few times and they've seemed to be interested in the new album. We have shows booked through the summer but I don't know if I can last that long with how things are going now. Thanks for everything guys. I'll let you know what happens.
 
Ask your band for an equal amount as the other bands are offering or say goodbye. It's business to you and not personal. You can't live on nothing and the band shouldn't be playing for free anyway. This just ruins the market. If they are worth their salt they should be getting paid, and so should you. And 13 drummers in 10 years? There is a problem for sure.
 
A punk rock band with a member making 70K a year and all members having stable employment but you. Whatever happened to the day when punk meant something :(

On a more serious note, never be afraid to change acts, ESPECIALLY if you have a rock star who can't check their ego. More importantly, tell them what the other bands are offering cash wise and see if they match. That is plenty fair, with the bread they sound like they are bringing down with hotels and meals they should be able to pay you. That or see if one of the members can find you a job.
 
Hi
This is very simple...get out!!!!!! Would you go to work and flip burgers for free? Why should you provide your drumming fro free. Denis
 
I moved to another state to play with a band last year. I don't receive any money playing with this gig. I knew this going into it but I was really using it as a stepping stone and to play music in a good market. This band has been playing for 10+ years and all of the other members have good jobs so the lack of band income isn't hurting them at all. The rhythm section is new and the bass player makes 70,000 per year so he doesn't care about not getting paid (really it's more of a hobby for him anyway considering he can't play out of town gigs during the week). Everyone that I've told about my role and arrangement with the band says that they'd get out or demand compensation. The only money that I ever see is paid hotel and maybe a meal or two when we're on the road and as you guys know, sticks and heads are not cheap. We're in the process of recording an album and playing shows here and there but I've recently lost my job so my money situation is getting REALLY crucial. I don't really want to leave the band but I'm getting offers to play with PAYING bands in the area.

The thing that gets me is that the lead singer is a really good business person. He handles all of our finances and books all of our gigs. In the 9 months that I've been in this band I've never heard anything about actually being a real member of the band, signed anything, or recently anything to do with my involvement of the record we're recording. The band isn't exactly making much money and they're in debt from recording but they all know that I'm not working and getting behind on bills. I just don't understand. If a member of my band needed money I'd try to help in some form. I've even told them that I'd be willing to sleep in the van and pay for my own food on the road and they can give me whatever after we play gigs.

I kinda slipped this into the conversation with one of the founding members of the band the other day. I asked him how many drummers this band has had and he said I was the 13th! Can you believe that? Insane right?

Do you guys have any advice for me? I don't know what I should do. I'm about to say screw it, quit, and possibly move. One guy said that I should get them to acknowledge me as a hired gun and not a member of the band so they'd pay me for recording the album. What do you think?

Not a chance, you're just being taken. That would be the day I PAY to play my drums. If there's a recording, and you're not getting a percentage of the sales you should be PAID to do the "album".

Unless you're TEN years old, you don't NEED to be "on an album" to show the world you can play drums in a band.

So who DOES get the money that's being made?

SIGNED, that's another hot one. Unless you've got a million people coming to see you, none too many "record companies" worth their merits are going to "sign" you and DO anything for you if they do.. And if you're in a position where a million people are coming to see you, you don't NEED the "record company". Unless it's Sony or something similar.

I think you see where I'm going with this.

Make your OWN "record company". Go in the studio, make yourself a recording, and sell it right off the stage. I can GUARANTEE you'll make more profit and get better results than someone ELSE doing it for you.

That's my Grandfatherly advice to you.
 
I see you are here in Austin, there are so many gigs here. Find another band.

I am far from trying to make a living at it but I still bring in a few hundred a month minimum.

Even the bad gigs pay 10% of the bar ;-)
 
I totally agree with the followup posts here.

I would lay it all out and let them know that you cannot continue without compensation. Give them the option of hiring you for the recording if they so desire. Move on with a paying band, it's that simple. Very sorry you have gone through this all with this band. Always keep options open to gig with other bands. This is something I put out on the table from the start with ANY other musicians or bands. Your time and talent is VALUABLE. Just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on.
 
i'm so sorry to hear about your situation. i've heard stories like this a few times.

i'd definately get out or give them an ultimatum. if you're out playing, you are giving your time, blood, and sweat. there should be some compensation.

best of luck to you bro.
 
I don't know where you live, but it makes a difference. If you're in New York, you get people at clubs wanting you to play for tips, you get guys playing for nothing, so you begin to wonder what the club scene's worth and a lot of musicians who want to play in a jazz band go play on Broadway to fill in for money. Try getting an agent and playing colleges it's more rewarding than the club scene. Very few people make much playing clubs is the reality.
 
The thing that gets me is that the lead singer is a really good business person. He handles all of our finances and books all of our gigs.

What do you think?

I think that if a ten yr old band isn't getting the best pay in town, then he isn't as business savvy as he thinks.

Like I'm sure everyone will say, drop this one like the bad habit that it is, and join a payer. Since you're jobless, I would recommend finding a wwedding band or two and get the cash flowing.

Leave on good terms, be a nice guy, but don't play another note for free.
 
It seems like they are taking you for granted. Either confront them in an adult way, and DEMAND respectfully that you get paid because of the money trouble you are going through. Don't go like I WANT MA MONEY, be reasonable. They need to understand your situation. You have to make them understand that it isn't cheap and you NEED to get paid to be able to go on.

And DO NOT settle for a small amount, they might give you a small amount just to keep you quiet so you have to settle for a reasonable amount.

OR, if they won't comply, leave the band. You said there are other bands that are willing to PAY you to have you, if I were you I'd check out the other bands. Obviously go with the band that pays you a reasonable amount.

You need a strong income to be a drummer, it's the hardest instrument to take care off, don't forget that.

Hope this helps
 
I pretty much agree with everything thats been said so far, so i'll just reiterate: stop letting yourself be walked all over. offering to sleep in the van? maybe a free meal?! musicians have the same economic needs as anyone else. these guys are taking advantage and you're letting them.

Also, as was previously said, this band is ten years old but isn't getting paid for gigs? thats just crazy. any band worth their salt should get paid. even 16 year olds kids who are just starting out and looking for a gig, even if they aren't very good, get paid.

And u say the singer 'is real good with business and finances'......ah, hello, did u read your own post? what finances? u aren't getting paid. sounds like he's real good at sorting out his own finances and shafting u at the same time. seriously, how is he good with finances if you aren't getting paid? where does the money go?

get out now. i wouldn't even worry about being polite. these guys sound like jokers. to hell with them. walk.
 
I pretty much agree with everything thats been said so far, so i'll just reiterate: stop letting yourself be walked all over. offering to sleep in the van? maybe a free meal?! musicians have the same economic needs as anyone else. these guys are taking advantage and you're letting them.

Also, as was previously said, this band is ten years old but isn't getting paid for gigs? thats just crazy. any band worth their salt should get paid. even 16 year olds kids who are just starting out and looking for a gig, even if they aren't very good, get paid.

And u say the singer 'is real good with business and finances'......ah, hello, did u read your own post? what finances? u aren't getting paid. sounds like he's real good at sorting out his own finances and shafting u at the same time. seriously, how is he good with finances if you aren't getting paid? where does the money go?

get out now. i wouldn't even worry about being polite. these guys sound like jokers. to hell with them. walk.
Agreed, I just don't understand why musicians would ever give their wares away for NOTHING?? Is there ANY other job that you work for FREE??

Occasional free meals?? Not for NOTHING dude, I play gigs where we get paid AND get a free meal!! So offering to pay you in an "occational meal" ain't gonna make up for nothin' You're NOT a street urchin, however, if you keep THIS up you WILL be, YOU WILL BE!!
 
After reading through this I would have to say RUN, don't walk to the band that will pay you RUN to them and let the money start coming in...no one can work for free especially in today's economy and NO ONE can afford to allow someone else to look out for their own best interests. Unless these guys want to kick down a fat payday for you I would say GOOD DAY and be off with yourself. Best of luck to you Dude and DO find a band that will truly appreciate you and take care of you by PAYING you for your work.
 
music and business, oil and water, they don't mix ask for a wage if they say no, ttake a hike, lifes to short ffor this kind of bull*****
 
In the process of leaving this ship, I would point out that not only is this a bad situation for you, but it also lowers the wages for professionals that are making a living at drumming, when people that have well paid jobs that don't care about the money under cut other bands that are struggling. It keep the wages down, and bar owners and band leaders taking advantage. Bail my friend. I would be long gone. Staying will only hurt your name by association.
 
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