DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE

Re: Drumprogressive's double bass grooves

BrianW said:
You really dont need double bass for most of those. Their great to practice heel-toe. Good job.
yes, but you need to know how to do heel toe... any help on that? im stuck lol.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

ledzeppelinstoh said:
Hey, i was just wondering, my current top speed is like 120-125 16th notes, has any one heard of this joe stronsick isotonik system for double bass drumming??????????? and if so...does it WORK!?
And another question, i heard from a person who posted all over other forums that in order to GET fast u have to PLAY fast, but to the point where you HAVE control but bearly controlling it, and using a double bass workout...as a WORKOUT, and playing to a burn everyday several times a day and you'll be amazed at the results, he said he went from 140 to 210 in almost 2 months by playing to a burn and practicing everyday and keeping it interesting not just zoned out playing 16ths to a metronome u know? but can anyone clear up as to my first question and does the BURNING really work????? thanks -jason


i would also like to know this haha
 
Double Bass Technique Help!!

OK, ive been playing with double bass for a year and a half now... i can keep it consistant at slow tempos, but i cant do a fast double bass roll..... it kills me, because i see people who are just starting out on drums, do the single stroke roll better than me...


i play heel up... but im not sure about the rest....

****Should i use more leg than foot/ankle????
Where should the beaters be????
How high should my Throne be? ????
what is the most effective technique????
how long have you been playing???? (double bass???)

i really need to know, because its really difficult for me, and i dont know why......
i will take any and alll coments, and suggestions
 
Re: Double Bass Technique Help!!

Look three inches up from this thread.
 
Re: Double Bass Technique Help!!

First how fast can you go

second how longf have you been learning

and yes you use your ankels more but that is at higher speeds just practise lots at your slow tempo you will see you speed getting higher slowly. and beater dont do much about speed a good practise is

RRRRLLLL for 2-3 mins then RRRRRRRRLLLLLLLL same time RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLsame time then LRLRLRLRLRLRLRL for the same time.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Jeroen aka aksie said:
A while ago i posted a comment on double-bass playing... it was about my view and experiences on how to get started for some nice speed as result. I don't think many of you have read it so here is it again:

I've tried to explain it as plain as I could, (because English is not my first language)

This read will take 15 minutes I think !! (what is 15 minutes compared to days of practicing =)

First of all when I say “I can play double-bass” then I mean playing 16th notes continuing for a long period (like it is used in most death metal songs). Because playing those 16th notes at a nice/high speed requires a different technique (for me) then the technique I use for a quick RLR or RLRLR with my double-bass for example. The difference between those two techniques for me and I think for a lot drummers is that with the normally used technique we play a lot/for the most part with our leg and we use its weight(so our whole leg goes up and down and the strength is coming from you upper leg muscles because you lift that part). And on the other hand, with the technique to play those continuing 16th notes I (have to) play a lot more with my ankle, but of course I use my leg also. You have to find the perfect balance between those two. Sitting a bit higher makes it sometimes easier to play with that ankle motion.
OK if you do understand what I am talking about you’re doing a good job =)
But to practice I used a few methods.

In general when you have problems with a foot when you are beginning (for most of the drummers your left one), then compare it to your right. Very often you can “learn” from your right foot.

AND get a metronome (metronomeonline.com)

- First of all I was not capable to accept the rebound of the pedal of my left foot/leg. So it simply didn’t function as my right leg/foot did. I couldn’t play a rhythm with my left foot at the same volume and power of the bass-drum of my right foot. Just put your metronome at a slow speed (80) and play 1 bass-drum every tap of the metronome, then double it, so play 2 kicks every tap(8th notes). Now you are creating some power and control(accepting the rebound) over your left foot. When you are comfortable with that try 90, ok with that? then try 100. I got problems around 120. At 120 it is enough I think. (you are still using your old technique so you play with all the weight of your leg). When you are comfortable with this and you can play stable at 120 on the metronome and play 2 kicks per tap you are doing nice. Also do it with your right foot, you’ll notice that you are probably automatically using more your ankle than your left foot.

B.T.W. when you try to play with 1 bass pedal(right foot) at your fastest speed, then you can probably play pretty fast (you use the ankle motion, a different technique then when you play normal). You can’t cut it to a roll of 6 probably(still with 1 foot), just that max speed is going good for a longer period(maybe not so loud). In the end we want to be able to control that technique, (only a bit different I think), at different speeds and with 2 feet !

OK, so you’re ok now with playing 120 on the metronome with your right and left foot separated. Now put the metronome back to 80 and play again 2 kicks per tap of the metronome (8th notes) with you left foot, then integrate your right foot, then you have the result that you want in the end AT A SLOW…slow speed. Put it to 90, to 100 and maybe to 120. (STILL USING THE WHOLE WEIGHT OF YOUR LEG). When you are comfortable with playing at around 110 with 16th notes so both legs at the same time, your doing a nice job. But there is a limit to this use of the whole weight of your leg. So now we want to integrate that other technique which allows you to play faster, with a lot lesser effort.
Now we are going to use that other technique. Now I will exaggerate it, but then you know what to do. You sit down and put your feet on the pedal, heel on the ground, then put your heels up, higher then you normally do(so almost only your toes are in contact with the pedal). Then play really, really slow, just every second (60) a kick. R L R L, really slow yeah. But you only use your ankle, this means that your knee height is almost at the same level all the time. Just do it really slow. Ok you don’t have to do it @ 80, 90 and 100, because we want play those double-bass faster. Set your metronome @ 120. play RLRL every metronome tap (those 16th notes) Now you can put your heel a bit down and try to get the perfect balance between the use of your ankle and your leg.

OK now stay on your drumthrone, turn 180 degrees, put your feet on the ground and put your heels up, so you are mostly only in touch with the ground with your toes. Then you try to tap 16th notes (you must have done this before =). The strength is also coming from your heel and toes, “pushing” your leg up. The same way you want to do this on the pedal, but on the pedal you have to accept that rebound of the pedal, so try to find that balance between the “pushing” that ankle motion and that leg strength.

When you’re trying to play like this your bass-drums WILL undoubtedly hit your bassdrum head at the same time. This is normal, you don’t have to get back and slow it down to a speed which you are capable of playing this to. At 120 or 140 is ok to practice with. You have to correct yourself every time again and again, so that means don’t continue playing when the beaters are hitting at the same time. You have to force your leg/foot etc… to play that 16th notes correctly. There will be a day it will work, maybe not perfect but you can get it constant and it going nice. (all this practicing should be relaxed, that’s also the way you want to be able to play alike, so no tighten of any muscels which are not needed.) You will tighten some muscles sometime just to try something, or maybe because it is frustrating =) But try not to do it. Maybe you are tend to put your left foot lower on the pedal at first because that’s easier, but try to play the same as your right.

Comment: you have to practice a bit heel down to, like a lot drummers say. Maybe you can’t play very loud, fast of whatever, it just helps you to create those muscles for that other technique.

I played stone stick control exercises with my feet(not even at really high speeds), it’s a very good way to develop that foot coordination, but once you get used to that left foot accepting that rebound of the pedal, I stopped that practicing, because my goal was to play those 16th notes at a nice speed, constant and relaxed.

That day or hour when you have “forced” your legs etc… to play that double-bass at a cool speed, you will be more than happy. Your not capable yet of playing this double-bass very quickly without forcing things or first practicing 5 or more minutes, but that hour will give you energy, strength, power to go on with practicing and above all belief that you can and will play that double-bass correctly in a few months. The satisfaction will be f00king good.

I hope that all of you beginning double-bass players understand my words, and maybe things develop totally different in your situation, but maybe you got only 1 useful thing of knowledge out of this read. And as I said what is a read of 15? minutes compared to days of practice =) And these are my experiences, it’s one way of practicing double-bass you decide what you do with it. And above all double-bass is practicing, practicing, practicing.


C ya !! go practice NOW !



Jeroen

hey, good job... This is really helps me... More practice... and more practice...

Good luck
 
Re: Double Bass Chops

Freddie Freeloader said:
i downloaded some videos off limewire of a guy called derek roddy.... they seem to be shot with a handycam, but he's got this cool practice routine that i've been trying out (well, not exactly the same thing, more like my own tailor-made routine, but inspired by his).....
www.derekroddy.com

he plays drums for a band called hate eternal, and he's got some FAST feet.... i mean, REAL FAST! hahaha. he's kinda cool, so even if you're not into that music, his ideas are great to build speed and endurance. endurance being the key word here.....
i bought an iron cobra db a month ago and only started practicing seriously last week....
in addition to half an hour of practicing my routine (that's similar to roddy's), i also do some rudiments with my feet and also write out some lengthy grooves with adequate db parts and just play them out.... its kinda helped.....
whatever you do, use a metronome to track your progress......

his feet are very fast... but he also uses those crazy Axis pedals... I've heard when switching over to those they completely ruin the feel for regular pedals. Also he uses an advanced triggering method where the trigger is on the pedal, not the drum head. smart guy.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

TamaReaper said:
i would also like to know this haha
Imho
you Do NOt need to play to a burn.
There is a difference in warming the muscles and burning them..
IF you want top play to a burn a
TO releases LActic acid to help build up muscles.
DO so with caution.
lots of water stretching,proper diet etc,...
Talk to yout DR to see any advice to do this to help build your muscles.
I prefer to focus on my technique which is relaxed and as I develoipe control my speed goes up..
Just my 2 1/2 cents
Tim
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

hey guys. for ending a big swing solo, my teacher introduced me to 16th notes w/ the feet, and goin wild on the cymbals on top. he said to start off with the left foot (LRLRLRLR...) because the left usually plays hi hat patterns on the beat. his point is to keep foot technique consistant, so it doesn't get mixed up. it feels more natural to start with the right foot...but does my teacher have a legit point?
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

One thing that really worked for me was how i played my bass drums. Instead of useing my whole leg for the stroke, I pivot from side to side. This allows me to hit harder longer and faster I learned it from gene hoglan...
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

minishee07 said:
hey guys. for ending a big swing solo, my teacher introduced me to 16th notes w/ the feet, and goin wild on the cymbals on top. he said to start off with the left foot (LRLRLRLR...) because the left usually plays hi hat patterns on the beat. his point is to keep foot technique consistant, so it doesn't get mixed up. it feels more natural to start with the right foot...but does my teacher have a legit point?

Some ppl play it that way, tho I found it uncomfortable and much easier to start with the right. Just check out what is best for you :)
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

Jeroen aka aksie said:
A while ago i posted a comment on double-bass playing... it was about my view and experiences on how to get started for some nice speed as result. I don't think many of you have read it so here is it again:

I've tried to explain it as plain as I could, (because English is not my first language)

This read will take 15 minutes I think !! (what is 15 minutes compared to days of practicing =)

First of all when I say “I can play double-bass” then I mean playing 16th notes continuing for a long period (like it is used in most death metal songs). Because playing those 16th notes at a nice/high speed requires a different technique (for me) then the technique I use for a quick RLR or RLRLR with my double-bass for example. The difference between those two techniques for me and I think for a lot drummers is that with the normally used technique we play a lot/for the most part with our leg and we use its weight(so our whole leg goes up and down and the strength is coming from you upper leg muscles because you lift that part). And on the other hand, with the technique to play those continuing 16th notes I (have to) play a lot more with my ankle, but of course I use my leg also. You have to find the perfect balance between those two. Sitting a bit higher makes it sometimes easier to play with that ankle motion.
OK if you do understand what I am talking about you’re doing a good job =)
But to practice I used a few methods.

In general when you have problems with a foot when you are beginning (for most of the drummers your left one), then compare it to your right. Very often you can “learn” from your right foot.

AND get a metronome (metronomeonline.com)

- First of all I was not capable to accept the rebound of the pedal of my left foot/leg. So it simply didn’t function as my right leg/foot did. I couldn’t play a rhythm with my left foot at the same volume and power of the bass-drum of my right foot. Just put your metronome at a slow speed (80) and play 1 bass-drum every tap of the metronome, then double it, so play 2 kicks every tap(8th notes). Now you are creating some power and control(accepting the rebound) over your left foot. When you are comfortable with that try 90, ok with that? then try 100. I got problems around 120. At 120 it is enough I think. (you are still using your old technique so you play with all the weight of your leg). When you are comfortable with this and you can play stable at 120 on the metronome and play 2 kicks per tap you are doing nice. Also do it with your right foot, you’ll notice that you are probably automatically using more your ankle than your left foot.

B.T.W. when you try to play with 1 bass pedal(right foot) at your fastest speed, then you can probably play pretty fast (you use the ankle motion, a different technique then when you play normal). You can’t cut it to a roll of 6 probably(still with 1 foot), just that max speed is going good for a longer period(maybe not so loud). In the end we want to be able to control that technique, (only a bit different I think), at different speeds and with 2 feet !

OK, so you’re ok now with playing 120 on the metronome with your right and left foot separated. Now put the metronome back to 80 and play again 2 kicks per tap of the metronome (8th notes) with you left foot, then integrate your right foot, then you have the result that you want in the end AT A SLOW…slow speed. Put it to 90, to 100 and maybe to 120. (STILL USING THE WHOLE WEIGHT OF YOUR LEG). When you are comfortable with playing at around 110 with 16th notes so both legs at the same time, your doing a nice job. But there is a limit to this use of the whole weight of your leg. So now we want to integrate that other technique which allows you to play faster, with a lot lesser effort.
Now we are going to use that other technique. Now I will exaggerate it, but then you know what to do. You sit down and put your feet on the pedal, heel on the ground, then put your heels up, higher then you normally do(so almost only your toes are in contact with the pedal). Then play really, really slow, just every second (60) a kick. R L R L, really slow yeah. But you only use your ankle, this means that your knee height is almost at the same level all the time. Just do it really slow. Ok you don’t have to do it @ 80, 90 and 100, because we want play those double-bass faster. Set your metronome @ 120. play RLRL every metronome tap (those 16th notes) Now you can put your heel a bit down and try to get the perfect balance between the use of your ankle and your leg.

OK now stay on your drumthrone, turn 180 degrees, put your feet on the ground and put your heels up, so you are mostly only in touch with the ground with your toes. Then you try to tap 16th notes (you must have done this before =). The strength is also coming from your heel and toes, “pushing” your leg up. The same way you want to do this on the pedal, but on the pedal you have to accept that rebound of the pedal, so try to find that balance between the “pushing” that ankle motion and that leg strength.

When you’re trying to play like this your bass-drums WILL undoubtedly hit your bassdrum head at the same time. This is normal, you don’t have to get back and slow it down to a speed which you are capable of playing this to. At 120 or 140 is ok to practice with. You have to correct yourself every time again and again, so that means don’t continue playing when the beaters are hitting at the same time. You have to force your leg/foot etc… to play that 16th notes correctly. There will be a day it will work, maybe not perfect but you can get it constant and it going nice. (all this practicing should be relaxed, that’s also the way you want to be able to play alike, so no tighten of any muscels which are not needed.) You will tighten some muscles sometime just to try something, or maybe because it is frustrating =) But try not to do it. Maybe you are tend to put your left foot lower on the pedal at first because that’s easier, but try to play the same as your right.

Comment: you have to practice a bit heel down to, like a lot drummers say. Maybe you can’t play very loud, fast of whatever, it just helps you to create those muscles for that other technique.

I played stone stick control exercises with my feet(not even at really high speeds), it’s a very good way to develop that foot coordination, but once you get used to that left foot accepting that rebound of the pedal, I stopped that practicing, because my goal was to play those 16th notes at a nice speed, constant and relaxed.

That day or hour when you have “forced” your legs etc… to play that double-bass at a cool speed, you will be more than happy. Your not capable yet of playing this double-bass very quickly without forcing things or first practicing 5 or more minutes, but that hour will give you energy, strength, power to go on with practicing and above all belief that you can and will play that double-bass correctly in a few months. The satisfaction will be f00king good.

I hope that all of you beginning double-bass players understand my words, and maybe things develop totally different in your situation, but maybe you got only 1 useful thing of knowledge out of this read. And as I said what is a read of 15? minutes compared to days of practice =) And these are my experiences, it’s one way of practicing double-bass you decide what you do with it. And above all double-bass is practicing, practicing, practicing.


C ya !! go practice NOW !



Jeroen

im impressed by this. i work on it for half an hour and this morning my feet actaully improved. but my question is how r u supposed to play loud with only moving ur ankle?
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

I never really had a specific way of learning double bass. I just listened to cds and all of their double bass playing and tryed to replicate it, and in time I did. Then I just practiced flams with the double bass and then tryed to replicate everything I do wit my hands. Everything just kind of came together.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

in my opinion double bass should be something you get ones youve been able to play single pedal well and are decent independence between your feet and hands.

about the building up your speed..
one thing that is always good is set a goal for yourself, like, playing "slave labor" by fear factory was one of mine. after that there are millions of exersices you can do..

for me the one that i used the most my teacher gave me, it helps your speed and your timing. first you start ,with a metrnome by the way, doing quarter notes for two measures. then you double to eighth notes for two measures, then triplets, then sixteenth notes.. as you do this its good to play random soloing on the top with your hands. so your independence gets better and also so you dont get bored. =].
anyways you keep doing this eventually youll be able to add sixtuplets and thirtysecond notes. and then you will know youve made A LOT of progress..

also another one i do, wich i do for my hands as well, is start with triplets for two measures and then do thirtysecond notes. you keep this up with for a few months and youll get speed in no time.

USE A METRONOME!!!!! AND TAKE YOUR TIME SPEED WILL COME BUT ITS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!!!!

also after youve gained a good amount of speed or can keep a solid beat. try taking all the beats you know and adding random double bass to them..random but still in time, and just mess around with it, use it in your fills..

and just listen to a lot of music.. go to like every double bass video on this site and watch it, like actually study it and see what the drummers are doing.. itll inspire you to come up with new beats and just make you an all around better drummer..

have fun playing and hope this helps somebody
---mario--

p.s.
this is the way i did it, it might not work for you.. also when your playing with a band, blazzing fast double bass isnt the best option.=]. but its always nice knowing you can do it. what im trying to say, is dont over do it most of the time a simple beat its what best fits. so dont try and get all technical.. for that just start a solo.
 
Re: Help need on double bass!

mr. inards said:
What works for me is actually the oppisite, I play heel up most of the time when playing blast beats and other stuff with constantly rolling bass drums.

I also have a 9002 and I keep my foot right against the toe stop with my heel up and just kind of flik my ankles. Its probobly not the best way egronomically but it sure works for me, no amount of hybrid picking from either of my guitarists can keep up with my bass drum rolls at top speed!

so this is deffantly off topic and i apologize...but
dude i know ur band i used to isten to them all the time on myspace but then acces to a computer was hard. and i used to post bullitens like crazy for you guys. my name is joe, but i really like you guys alot.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

hi i'm wondering how i can achieve the independency to foot and hand which exercies you recommend
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

ledzeppelinstoh said:
Hey, i was just wondering, my current top speed is like 120-125 16th notes, has any one heard of this joe stronsick isotonik system for double bass drumming??????????? and if so...does it WORK!?
And another question, i heard from a person who posted all over other forums that in order to GET fast u have to PLAY fast, but to the point where you HAVE control but bearly controlling it, and using a double bass workout...as a WORKOUT, and playing to a burn everyday several times a day and you'll be amazed at the results, he said he went from 140 to 210 in almost 2 months by playing to a burn and practicing everyday and keeping it interesting not just zoned out playing 16ths to a metronome u know? but can anyone clear up as to my first question and does the BURNING really work????? thanks -jason

I heard it's complete crap.
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

i can play about 130 with no problems, but when i try to go faster i cant hold it for very long. about 168 is the fastest i can play and hold for about 30 seconds but i get tired really fast, should i just pratcice more speed or soimething, because i want to go really fast.
and i found that when im pratcicing and im listening to trivium or lamb of god the music pumps me up so i go faster, but i would like to learn to go fast without the music so should i keep listening to it when i play or not?
 
Re: THE DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE THREAD

What I suggest is to play at 168 at 30 sec/until you get very tired, then take a break and do it again, I can guarantee that you will become faster and will soon be able to play 168 for a long time...then, when ur comfortable with that, just raise the tempo to maybe 175 and do the same thing over again. Doing patterns like paradiddles and double strokes with ur feet will also help.
 
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