Bummer!
- Thread starter Andy
- Start date
AirborneSFC
Gold Member
I really do not like festivals at all. Often the organizers do not do their jobs and the line ups are all mixed up. The ones with multiple stages are even worse. So far I have not had to play a back lined kit but honestly for a short set I would not mind. Within the last few months I have let two drummers us my kit. S Hoops protect my bearing edges and I often get free heads so I don't mind every now and then. I would NEVER let someone use my cymbals unless it was an artist I knew (and they would replace what they broke).
My opinion is that sometimes us drummers have to suck it up for the sake of the bands we support. These days so long as the crowd and band is happy I am ok playing whatever P.O.S they throw at me so long as I can make it comfortable for me.
Since I have been gigging back stateside I have learned that being very flexible and able to adapt to whatever crazy situation the gigs have thrown at me has gained me a lot of praise.
My opinion is that sometimes us drummers have to suck it up for the sake of the bands we support. These days so long as the crowd and band is happy I am ok playing whatever P.O.S they throw at me so long as I can make it comfortable for me.
Since I have been gigging back stateside I have learned that being very flexible and able to adapt to whatever crazy situation the gigs have thrown at me has gained me a lot of praise.
poika
Silver Member
Andy
Honorary Member
Agreed Larry. Read my next post
Exactly. Very inconsiderate, & actually counter productive to not consider that.
No issues with a 4 piece, it's the practical element that perplexes me most.
An absolutely stellar idea!!!!!
Right on Jeff. Communication is key (read on
Yes Ian, but I think we often accept our place in the pecking order rather than speaking out. It's a judgement call for sure, but I do think us drummers are a little too benign for our own good sometimes.
A Guru sound will be piping FOH!!!
Absolutely. I know two left hand players who constantly come across this situation, & it sucks!
You're missing the main point Bo. I don't have an issue with a slimmed down setup. I rehearse with such a setup most times. Ok, it's not ideal, but it's the logistical issues that make no sense.
Cheers
Again, it's not the playing angle that irks me.Indeed. I'm also a very flexible & accommodating guy, but I do kick back when a decision clearly makes no sense.
Absolutely nothing
Bo Eder
Platinum Member
No, I get the whole thing. I'm telling you you just have to suck it up
And being a lefty? That's not a problem for me either - I just flip what I can and play the rest of the kit backwards - and I still rock.
Nothing is ever ideal. Drummers never get what they deserve even in the best of circumstances. But you still play great and do it with a smile because you love it, right?
Andy
Honorary Member
I know you rock Bo. You're a great player - a much better player than me for sure. I'm a player of extremely limited repertoire. I play one or two styles well, nothing more, & yes I admit, I rely on the familiarity of my setup to some extent too, especially when it comes to melodic expression. I've posted this before on my "in defence of multiple toms" thread, but this is an example of just how much I use multiple toms. To what effect? Well, that's for others to judge, but the band both likes & wants what I do, & the audience seem to appreciate it too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbE4rOmfj9U&hd=1
If I was a pro, I'd agree 100% with you, but I'm not. I do it for the enjoyment of it, so why shouldn't I enjoy myself to the full? I don't mind sucking it up if there's a genuine practical advantage, but when the requested method is actually counter productive, I fail to see why I should roll over & let them walk all over me.No, I get the whole thing. I'm telling you you just have to suck it up
Well this is where I draw a line in the sand then. Spurred on by some of the responses here, I decided to call the organiser & promoter to explain how I think it can work better for all concerned, & blow me down, they agreed! Even better, I've been in touch with the PA company, & the guy in charge is an absolute star! I'm hoping many of us here take heart from the response below. PA guys always get a bad rap - well - here's a really good one
Because I dared to push this politely, I won out. Communication, communication, communication! Sometimes us downtrodden drummers do get what we deserve Response to my request:
Hi Andrew
For me absolutely no problem, i can supply you with either AKG or SHURE drum Mic's, we can mic the snare top and bottom with SM57BETA mics (or any other combination, just let me know in advance of your preference) and use either the Shure or AKG condensers for overheads.
I fully understand the issue, I like to use my own kit as well were possible, the important thing is to feel comfortable when you are performing.
Just to clarify we are using your kit for all bands? something to check with the other bands is anyone left handed, I recently I did the sound at a gig were the last band on supplied the drum kit for the whole event, which was fine until the second band on started dismantling the kit and moving everything because the drummer was left handed, this cost quite a bit of time and there are fairly tight time constraints on this event for change over, just something to consider
I am currently overseas with work but will be in the UK on the 9th of October, after this date if you like we can arrange for you and the rest of the band to bring your kit to my workshop in Bulwark and we can set up and get everything dialed in for the show
I look forward to hearing from you
Kind Regards
Shaun
evoqueaudio
My reply:
Hi Shaun,
thank you so much for responding so positively. This really is a breath of fresh air
I did offer my kit for all band use (I think only 3 of the 5 acts use a kit), but Chris preferred me using my kit for our set, & the provided kit for the other two sets. I understand his position, as I think there's an aesthetic angle to consider for the first act.
Either way, so long as there's sufficient access side stage (Chris informs me there's a setup area), & assuming the previous band can get their gear off stage smartly, I see no turn around issues. The kit is on a rack ready to go, so can be on that riser ready for mic's in 2 minutes. Our keyboard setup takes the longest, but is through it's own mixer, leaving only a stereo feed to FOH.
Thank you for your kind pre-setup offer. I assume you're driving a digital desk? Due to distance & other commitments, I doubt we can attend your suggested pre gig session, but it's a wonderful offer. Again, most grateful for your consideration. Occasionally, as a favour, for known contacts only, we wet hire our own PA out for multiple band gigs. We run a simple 7K Logic System rig driven through a Mixwiz 3, but we're still acutely aware of logistical issues.
As for mic's, I'll leave that in your capable hands. I'd rather you use the setup you're used to. Actually, although it's a 6 piece kit, it's really easy to work with. We can chat it through nearer the date, as I'm tied up with drum shows & studio/video sessions until late October.
Chris has asked for a band PA requirement list, but while I'm contacting you directly, I might as well take this with you. There's no doubt we're the most gear heavy band at the event in terms of feeds. Here's a quick compilation video from some of last year's gigs. Only recorded on a Zoom handycam, but you get the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdNH7PDwaT8&hd=1
Anyhow, this is what we need:
KIT: no vocal. 4 x toms (rims are suitable for clip on) Bass drum, overheads, snare (top only is just fine) Monitoring - lead vocals & BV's, keys. (I usually get enough bass & lead guitar from the stage)
KEYS: no rear line, stereo out to DI. Vocal mic. I'll have a look at the set list, as there may be a need for acoustic guitar DI, but we'll try to avoid that. Monitoring - keys, lead guitar, all vocals.
BASS: DI from rear line. Main BV mic. Monitoring - all vocals, maybe some guitar & keys depending on stage sound.
Guitar: Mic rear line preferred, but can DI if you wish. No vocal. Monitoring - all vocals, keys.
Lead vocal: Mic. Monitoring - all vocals, keys.
Again, thank you so much for your positive & helpful response Shaun. We very much look forward to working with you.
Best regards, Andy.
Andy
Honorary Member
Indeed, it works well most of the time. Also, you don't get if you don't ask (respectfully). By getting in touch & putting my points across, not only have I eased the turn around situation for the band, but I've turned a personal concern into something that allows me to look forward to the gig
porter
Platinum Member
Nothing with them as a stand alone head, but they're not my thing. I prefer both single-ply and non-pre-muffled heads- and I'd doubt their appropriateness for this kind of environment.
Hurray for Andy! C:
Bo Eder
Platinum Member
Well I'm glad you got to work it out! And my point wasn't to say that I'm good or anything, my point was that you do a very good job with your band, so a few small hurdles shouldn't faze you guys a wit.
I understand the comment on how a drummer can do this to the acts, I've seen it before. Your mentality changes when you're the show director and no longer just the guy playing the drums
I understand the comment on how a drummer can do this to the acts, I've seen it before. Your mentality changes when you're the show director and no longer just the guy playing the drums
Les Ismore
Platinum Member
A sound company who does a lot of these events, or ones that are interested in getting a leg-up on competition to get these jobs, that's who'll make/use one, probably have a drummer on the crew too, or maybe even a drummer owner.
At festival type gigs where there's a lot of bands the drums are always the weakest link in the event, change over, player satisfaction etc. Its not that hard for a guitar player to get an amp onstage and its only one mic. Drummers are expected to compromise, that could be cured big time with a revolving drum riser of some sort. It wouldn't be that difficult to construct one.
Its going to happen, its just who'll be the first.
Andy
Honorary Member
Thanks Bo. I know you weren't making that point, but I thought it appropriate to highlight my different position.
It's a great idea. I've seen it done in terms of a whole stage replacing two stages, but never just a drum riser. I suppose the riser on wheels run out from side stage is the low rent version of your idea. I've used those on a few occasions.
Attachments
Juniper
Gold Member
It's a situation I come across almost weekly in London and also at festivals (have done 5 this year so far)
The last one was at a festival in Norwich two weekends ago on the main stage where all the bands were sharing one setup.
The setup itself was really uncomfortable, pretty much everything in terms of how it was setup was the opposite of how I set up my gear. I had three top toms, one bottom and about 10 cymbals. I was also enclosed in a rack. The main issue being my ride cymbal was nowhere near where my muscle memory expected it to be as it was over to the right and my crash had to be placed way off its usual space. Two key parts of the kit not being where I expected them to be.
(Normally play a one up two down or one up one down kit)
After the nerve of the opening song disappeared I actually enjoyed it. Felt refreshing to play a kit I wasn't comfortable with, felt like a test to pull it off and I left the stage an hour later really pleased with my performance. Felt like I approached the songs in a different (but positive) manner.
Played another setup at a show in London earlier in the year and again three top toms but the cymbals were so high (and the stands were memory locked) I had to jump out my seat to hit them. Didn't screw up once and I was really pleased I passed the 'test'.
Good that you got a result though! It's certainly refreshing to have a sound guy so accommodating as most have so much to focus on setting up the band that these things get missed, especially when it means tearing down one set of mics and a drum kit before replacing it all, normally within a 10-15min changeover.
The last one was at a festival in Norwich two weekends ago on the main stage where all the bands were sharing one setup.
The setup itself was really uncomfortable, pretty much everything in terms of how it was setup was the opposite of how I set up my gear. I had three top toms, one bottom and about 10 cymbals. I was also enclosed in a rack. The main issue being my ride cymbal was nowhere near where my muscle memory expected it to be as it was over to the right and my crash had to be placed way off its usual space. Two key parts of the kit not being where I expected them to be.
(Normally play a one up two down or one up one down kit)
After the nerve of the opening song disappeared I actually enjoyed it. Felt refreshing to play a kit I wasn't comfortable with, felt like a test to pull it off and I left the stage an hour later really pleased with my performance. Felt like I approached the songs in a different (but positive) manner.
Played another setup at a show in London earlier in the year and again three top toms but the cymbals were so high (and the stands were memory locked) I had to jump out my seat to hit them. Didn't screw up once and I was really pleased I passed the 'test'.
Good that you got a result though! It's certainly refreshing to have a sound guy so accommodating as most have so much to focus on setting up the band that these things get missed, especially when it means tearing down one set of mics and a drum kit before replacing it all, normally within a 10-15min changeover.
Magenta
Platinum Member
Well done, Andy - I'm glad you were dealing with somebody who was prepared to be reasonable. Most of all, I'm delighted that you're looking forward to the gig now.
Incidentally, my teacher (LiEun on here) is a lefty, currently doing his first-ever tour (Italy) and having to play backline kits. His first concern was whether the owner of the drums would mind him playing them, as he'd spontaneously combust if anybody else touched his kit; I'm keen to find out how he's managed, lefty-wise.
Incidentally, my teacher (LiEun on here) is a lefty, currently doing his first-ever tour (Italy) and having to play backline kits. His first concern was whether the owner of the drums would mind him playing them, as he'd spontaneously combust if anybody else touched his kit; I'm keen to find out how he's managed, lefty-wise.
Andy
Honorary Member
Agree. I like the challenge of a new kit, & don't struggle too much, although I do get comfort from my familiar setup. I use a different layout in practice to the one I use live, so no issues with that. In this particular situation, the logistics just didn't make sense, & the provided kit was about as wrong as it can be.
You've got to stand up sometimes Larry, & if you've got a good case, put across respectfully, most times, you can get a good reaction.
I am indeed looking forward to the gig
I do use the 4 toms quite extensively. Ok, I can do the same thing on two, but it's just not the same. My live kit is set up this way for a reason, & when possible, I like to deliver as it was designed within the band context.Because it was buried in text before, here's that link again, just to give an idea of how much I use multiple toms in a gig with this band:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbE4rOmfj9U&hd=1
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eclipseownzu
Gold Member
So here is my question Andy. What happens if another drummer in one of the other bands wants to play his kit. Any other drummer could say, "hey, my drum parts are specific to my kit, I need to play my own set." and now that the precident has been set, the promoter looks bad if he says no.
T
The Old Hyde
Guest
Andy, glad it worked out. The organizers have to realize at times to put on a good show, the bands need to be comfortable. and if that means playing a larger kit than they are supplying, then try to make that happen. Seems like a big enough show that they don't want the bands to fail. Good luck man. you would have been lost without those wind chimes!!!
Andy
Honorary Member
I understand the concern, but if I was running that stage, I'd stipulate that the changeover had to be complete within the allotted time. I'm able to demonstrate that. My kit is on a rack, can be carried on to the riser & ready for mic's within 2 minutes. I can even have the kit on stage with mic's already to go within 3 minutes (need about 1 minute or less to plug them into the stage box). It's much faster for me to do this than even basic modifications to the supplied kit. They're providing 3 drums - nothing else. That means those drums need to be adjusted for position, cymbal stands, hihat, snare, throne, & bass drum pedal added to. I challenge anyone to do that in 2 minutes. Time allotted for changeover = 15 minutes. More specifically, 5 minutes gear off, 10 minutes gear on.
Cheers
It wasn't just the kit, it was the logistics that didn't make sense, plus the quality of the supplied kit.As for wind chimes, if it's windy, I'll have to leave them off. What a disaster!!!!!!
Here we see the power of politeness, courtesy, assertiveness and having your *@&^ together. A good read for anyone here!