DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #201  
Old 04-28-2010, 05:19 PM
caddywumpus's Avatar
caddywumpus caddywumpus is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, OR USA
Posts: 5,785
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Two beats a bar bass drum playing and changing the way a kit was used, from press-rolls on the snare to accents on toms, he moved the bass drum from being used in the military marching band style to pretty much the style we use it in today.
Hmm...typically Papa Jo Jones gets the credit for this, but we all know that everyone was doing it at the time. Just like Kenny Clarke often gets credit for moving the "ride" pattern from the snare and hats to the cymbal when people where doing it decades before. Historical accounts are apparently dependent on whatever source you read it from.
__________________
I guess my nickname is "life" now.

My kit: http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44195
  #202  
Old 04-28-2010, 06:35 PM
Deltadrummer's Avatar
Deltadrummer Deltadrummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 2,681
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
Hmm...typically Papa Jo Jones gets the credit for this, but we all know that everyone was doing it at the time. Just like Kenny Clarke often gets credit for moving the "ride" pattern from the snare and hats to the cymbal when people where doing it decades before. Historical accounts are apparently dependent on whatever source you read it from.
There's always somebody who gets the credit. People say Papa Jo moved the time from the snare to the hats, but people had been doing it, and using the ride. You just have to look in Advanced Techniques for a long list of drummers that were using these bop techniques, a long list of people who are mostly forgotten. But Max recorded so much music that he is the man who becomes identified with the style, even more so perhaps than Kenny Clarke who many historians say originated it.

I think that bottom line is that Max Roach is identified with the history of bop, the history of jazz and the history of music in a way that most will never come close to, so it may make you feel better and more important to dis him, but his legacy lives on. These guys like Max, Roy Haynes and Art Blakey embody the history of jazz. they lived it. Thankfully some of these greats are still alive: Hank Jones, Brubeck, Chico Hamilton, Roy Haynes. Getting the chance to see these guys and/or listen to them talk is a great experience.
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
  #203  
Old 04-28-2010, 09:35 PM
Frost's Avatar
Frost Frost is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 904
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

Dodds did a lot of work with Louie Armstrong in the 20's and was one of the really influential drummers of the pre-big band era, well before bop which was in the late 40's. From the historical accounts I know he was one of the first drummers to start doing flourishes and accents and not just playing on the beat. He's also one of the first drummers to record unaccompanied, "Talking drums and drum solos" came out in 51 if I remember correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
There's always somebody who gets the credit. People say Papa Jo moved the time from the snare to the hats, but people had been doing it, and using the ride. You just have to look in Advanced Techniques for a long list of drummers that were using these bop techniques, a long list of people who are mostly forgotten. But Max recorded so much music that he is the man who becomes identified with the style, even more so perhaps than Kenny Clarke who many historians say originated it.

I think that bottom line is that Max Roach is identified with the history of bop, the history of jazz and the history of music in a way that most will never come close to, so it may make you feel better and more important to dis him, but his legacy lives on. These guys like Max, Roy Haynes and Art Blakey embody the history of jazz. they lived it. Thankfully some of these greats are still alive: Hank Jones, Brubeck, Chico Hamilton, Roy Haynes. Getting the chance to see these guys and/or listen to them talk is a great experience.
__________________
A disquiet mind at therapy with the music.
  #204  
Old 04-29-2010, 02:42 AM
Deltadrummer's Avatar
Deltadrummer Deltadrummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 2,681
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost View Post
Dodds did a lot of work with Louie Armstrong in the 20's and was one of the really influential drummers of the pre-big band era, well before bop which was in the late 40's. From the historical accounts I know he was one of the first drummers to start doing flourishes and accents and not just playing on the beat. He's also one of the first drummers to record unaccompanied, "Talking drums and drum solos" came out in 51 if I remember correctly.

Back in the early days, you couldn't record the drums very well. I remember reading that Dodds was responsible for popularizing the high hat, which he first used in 1929.
__________________
Ken Marino Drum Teacher "It's not worth keeping score. You win some. You lose some, you let it go"
  #205  
Old 04-25-2016, 01:28 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,897
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alandrums90 View Post
Does anybody else here feel that jazz drummers get way too much credit? Somebody recommended that I check out a guy named Max Roach. They said he was one of the greatest jazz drummers. Well, I looked him up on You Tube and I was hardly impressed. If this guy is one of the greatest I don't see how he could be anywhere near any of the great metal drummers. How is jazz harder to play than metal? How many jazz drummers could even come close to handling the speed that most metal songs are played? I just don't see what the big deal is when it comes to jazz drummers.
I think Mr. 1-post Alandrums is trolling and got lucky.

buuuuut, just for fun, let one of those metal guys sit in on a bop gig, big band gig or play a nice slow jazz ballad and see how well they do. :-)

All styles are demanding in their own way and if you didn't grow up with it you might have to educate yourself and condition yourself a bit to appreciate it.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
  #206  
Old 04-25-2016, 06:35 PM
4815162342 4815162342 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 96
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

I don't understand the jazz vs metal competition. I think jazz drummers get more credit simply because jazz came first and thus the pioneers of drumset playing were all jazz players. After that, it's a matter of taste.
  #207  
Old 04-26-2016, 01:29 PM
Dutch Dutch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 459
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

Hey Gruntersdad,
You can lock this thread now as you suggested back in 2010...
Dutch
  #208  
Old 04-26-2016, 01:49 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,374
Default Re: Are Jazz Drummers Overrated?

Let's see three posts after a six year break, OK. Locked it is.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com