Better than the original??.....Noooooo!!!!!!

WhoIsTony?

Member
so I was having a discussion with a bass player at a gig last night and we got on the topic of the original versions of a song compared to other versions.... I guess some would call them "covers"..... but "cover" doesn't really apply in my opinion in this case

he insisted that you could never improve the original for the simple fact that it is the original.... and I strongly disagreed

in some cases he is correct.... but there are songs that destroy his theory....again..... in my opinion

these are some that came to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyhL0ioST_U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYbs_O_iMfU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLV4_xaYynY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiqjZznEXxo

of course me thinking these are better than the original is only my opinion...

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the topic
 
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In some cases I've heard the remake before the original and preferred the remake, so it could be a case of us liking whichever one we hear first. Or one version clearly has a better singer or arrangement. Or it could be that we prefer the traits of one musical era in favour of another.
 
All though those are "covers" there almost should be another term for what they are. I guess remake fits better but it doesn't describe it well enough. All the examples you listed are better than the originals but aside from Twist and Shout the originals aren't really as well known as the "remakes" in those cases. And since most people aren't familiar with the originals that makes the remakes the standard.
 
one could argue that they are more widely known because they are better versions

no?

It actually irritates me when people tell me that the Beatles wrote twist and shout.
 
which one is 'better' comes down to mostly opinion and taste.
whichever way you like it, most credit must go to the originator of the song. they wrote it. i agree though there are many examples of me not preferring the original (mr. tambourine man comes to mind, i will forever hear the byrds for that one)
 
There's certainly versions of songs that I prefer to the original, but better? Without getting into semantics, it depends on your definition & personal taste. If better is measured by success in terms of records sold, & mass appeal, then maybe it's easier to come to a popular/consensus opinion. Equally, I think it's wrong to claim you can "never" improve on the original. Even original artists have been known to prefer a later version of their own song by another artist.

Here's one that tests my "better" radar. This is the original. I love the wonderful dissonant brass, but hate the double pace of the drums in some parts - screws the vibe IMHO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0syRTFF0UbQ

Here's the better known/popular version. Seems rushed to me, but it's pace & drop in guitar parts were so typical of pop production of the day. I don't like the emphasis skew of relegating the chorus vocal to BV's, but I do like the coherent pace of the drums & B3 parts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DhRo8rRyow

Just thought I'd give an insight into my thinking, & thus, how a conclusion is so difficult to reach.
 
It actually irritates me when people tell me that the Beatles wrote twist and shout.

It's actually a compliment to the Beatles. Most, if not all, cover songs the Beatles recorded were much much better than the originals.

Even friggen "Til There Was You" from that lousy musical...
 
We are talking about two different things. The originator of the idea reigns supreme in one case. In another case the guy who "re-imagined" it has the followers (the Jimi and Dylan reference). But the originator knows the cover wouldn't be out there had it not been for his idea anyway.

There are people who just write songs and never perform them too.
 
WhoIsTony:

To support your theory, how about when the original artist plays the song differently live. Or re-records the song played differently?

Sometimes it is annoying when the original artist plays their song differently and it sounds worse than the original.



.
 
I would agree The Beatles Version of Twist and Shout is better than the original.
I like Otis singing Respect more than Aretha. I prefer the Sam Cooke Version of A Change Is Gonna Come, and Bobby D. Always wins the All Along the Watchtower battle for me.

All the Young Dudes. That is a hard one for me. I feel that both versions bring so much to the table.

I think it is up to the listener. I don't think there can ever be a definitive answer to the which is better Original or Cover Debate. I mean my favorite version of House of the Rising Sun is the Ledbelly Version. Not many people are going to agree with me.
 
I believe Bob Dylan is on record saying that he preferred Jimis rendition of Watchtower to his own original .... so much so that I believe he began performing the Hendrix version live

Bob Dylan is a genius song writer.
But Bob Dylan performing live........................ No comment !

.
 
No question in my mind that original versions can be surpassed.

To me, it's really simple; there are songwriters and there are performers. They can be one and the same, but the person who writes a tune is not necessarily going to be great at performing it. Look at the Great American Songbook; jazz artists have taken tunes written in a completely different genre and created definitive versions.

Does anyone prefer the The Threepenny Opera version of Moritat to Bobby Darin's Mack The Knife? Even Sinatra said Darin's version was the definitive one.

To my mind, there isn't even a strong argument to be made here for the other side!
 
I was having this conversation with my band mates the other week, they said about doing the green manalishi to which my eyes lit up, they then played me a Judas Priest cover of it and my heart just sank, I felt it lost all the feel of the song (I think sacrilege was the word I used) I then played them the fleetwood mac original, they didn't like it so we ended up shelving it and moving on to something else.
 
great point Matt

but I think we were more speaking of major to semi major artists who released their tune that was later remade

or at least thats what I was talking about :)

for the record I believe any one of these artists that have remade the song.... or at least for the most part ... had done so because they loved the tune and probably believe that they themselves could never even touch the original.

of course this is all subjective and will have anyone who discusses it chasing each others tails....


there is also the other side of the coin.

something like... Blinded By the Light

I personally cannot stand the version that became popular but love the Springsteen version

I have never heard the Springsteen version of that song. But I hear it's a good cover ;)
 
"Better" is always subjective.

And in history, which is the original and which is the cover gets obscured.

How many people walking down the street even know that Respect wasn't originally by Aretha?

In the early 60's, many artists were actively discouraged from writing too much original material, as record companies saw covers as less risky investment. Many artists weren't necessarily trying to make a song better or different, they were just working with in the parameters they had to work with.

And then of course, the 60's British bands covered many Americana blues tunes, with their fans really having no idea (nor care) that the song wasn't necessarily an original.

"Crossroads" is always an interesting one. I've read/heard so many articles/interviews/discussions attributing Crossroads as a Cream song. When in fact, it was originally written by Robert Johnson. Which amuses me when the discussion of "play it like the original record" comes up, because on the original recording, there are no drums!

And in some cases, you have a song writer who writes a song for someone else, and then later releases it on their own.

Andy brought "All the Young Dudes." The song was written by Bowie specifically for Mott the Hoople. Mott the Hoople recorded it and released it first. Bowie recorded his own version later. One could say Bowie's version is technically a cover of himself.

"Heart of a Lion" was written by Judas Priest, but not released. The song was given to Racer X to record, who released it in 1987. 15 years later, the Judas Priest version came out on a box set as part of "previously unreleased tracks". So who's version is really "the original"?

And examples go on and on of people who got their start writing songs for other people, and then later on, became known as singers/artists. It can become a bit muddled.
 
For me it depends on the context of the cover vs the original. Typically I don't care for covers when the song has been revamped to the point of not maintaining the heart of the original, but still remains somewhat similar to the original. Like the band thought they could make it better. Sweet Dreams fits this description. Manson made the song very similar, but left out a big part of the song and did lots of screaming on top of it all. This is not acceptable.

On the other side of the coin, sometimes a cover song is better to me when everything is abandoned and the song becomes "new". Rusty Cage is a perfect example of this for me. I prefer Johnny Cash's version to Soundgarden's original.

When a band tries to make an exact version of the song, all the way down to feel, it really doesn't do it for me. I appreciate the effort, but it still isn't the same. Very few bands can do this properly. Aerosmith's version of Come Together is an exception. They did it perfectly, to the point of when I listen to the song it isn't Aerosmith or the Beatles, it is Come Together.

Perhaps this is why I don't really dig cover bands.
 
The other weird thing is when a band puts out there first album, or perhaps the fist album of a new line up, inevitably, there are songs that came from prior bands members were in.

"Somebody to Love" is generally regarded as a song by the Jefferson Airplane. Technically, the song was written by Grace Slick's previous band. Although the previous version was never on any major label, and many people ever heard. No one really considers the Airplane's version a cover.

And there are tons of similar examples out there.
 
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