Should I memorize my drum fills or improvise?

Gvdadrummasum said:
the word "fill" is way overused on this forum

as soon as you start thinking of drumming as "beats" and "fills" you run into things like the topic of this thread and the countless other threads about "fills" around here

it is just drumming ....it should all flow

as soon as you start separating them in your mind .....they sound separate

if you are playing a tune and feel a transition , a built, or a decay just react accordingly ..

if that reaction is some voicings around the kit ....then let it be that ..... whether those reactions are set in stone or improvised.....does not matter

if you free yourself from separating the two all of these problems that come up on this forum concerning "fills" will disappear


"fill" is my least favorite term in music

this "beats" and "fills" mind state is more times than not the reason for all the inappropriate over playing that goes on...
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Great advice, thanks. I appreciate your keep-it-simple outlook on drumming by the way!

Otto said:
No right or wrong in art - though it is the choice of the person cutting the check/investing their time to establish parameters for the use of their resources(that includes you AND your bandmates).

Sounds like there is a difference in the vision of the project between you and your bandmates.

Such a difference does not evaporate...work it out or disolve the current project lineup and move on...or decide the money is worth the compromise and adjust.

I would rather make money elsewhere than not be satisfied with my music.
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This is true, I will talk about it today.

Chris Perra said:
It's not bad practice, knowing as many different ways to play something is ideal..however there's a time and place for everything.. I once played in a Journey tribute act.. Not a good place to express myself haha..

Have your band given a reason as to why they are so specific? Are they all trying to play everything note for note or are they just trying to control what you play?

I don't think anybody has ever cared what fills I chose to play as long as they didn't fight with the band subdivision wise..
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At first I felt like they were giving me all this advice because they know nothing about drumming, then again they have more experience than I do so I figured I could be wrong.
 
pxavier said:
That's exactly what I do, but I'm not playing arenas yet so I'm wondering if it's bad practice. Thanks man!
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It's certainly not bad practice, that's exactly how I practice. Unless I'm bad at practicing....

But the reason I take that method is to record actually, I've only ever actually played live once behind drums, and that was at my church. Unfortunately I had taken that same practice approach and found many complicated beats and interesting grooves for the songs, at home, but found myself playing none due to the church kit sounding like-a-poopy and the band leader told me I was playing too much everytime I added one note to the shitty-ass-flying-hunk-of-boringess drum beat that was recorded.

sorry, needed to get that out lol, I guess what you can take from that is it does depend on what kind of music you play, and not just what you think is appropriate for the situation but what the band mates also think is appropriate for the situation.
 
Lunar Satellite Brian said:
It's certainly not bad practice, that's exactly how I practice. Unless I'm bad at practicing....

But the reason I take that method is to record actually, I've only ever actually played live once behind drums, and that was at my church. Unfortunately I had taken that same practice approach and found many complicated beats and interesting grooves for the songs, at home, but found myself playing none due to the church kit sounding like-a-poopy and the band leader told me I was playing too much everytime I added one note to the shitty-ass-flying-hunk-of-boringess drum beat that was recorded.

sorry, needed to get that out lol, I guess what you can take from that is it does depend on what kind of music you play, and not just what you think is appropriate for the situation but what the band mates also think is appropriate for the situation.
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Very true. I will keep this in mind when talking to them.
 
A drummers best friend should be the bassist, then you both can conspire to make a "fill" memorable, and the non-musician frontman singer only has nothing to say, and the lead axe is quiet anyways during the "Phil" Ryerson, just ask Bill Murray................lol

Just kidding, but, there are interviews where Peart states he varies them.

I say, go with the flow, or get a backtrack of the same old "fill" and smoke a Cig, have a beer while the machine plays the "Phil"

oh.............just kidding
 
pxavier said:
And no, I'm talking about the lesser drum fills, not important ones that are part of the groove.
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A little confused by this statement. Unless you're playing well organized linear parts, most fills disrupt the groove. There are signature breaks like the Collins part, and signature hits like the hat sloshes in What Is Hip, but fills are transitional breaks in the groove.

Some folks in bands use a particular fill as a cue or waypost for where they are in the song. So if you start changing up that fill, they will lose their way. This is one reason that simple consistent drummers get the gigs. They make it easier on the other players, not harder. There are times, and with monster players, where being creative is a real plus. But for the most part, the band is not about the drummer. Other than the drummer creating the groove that everyone else stands on, and the audience responds to.
 
If your band wants some consistency in their songs that they feel like they're not getting, I don't see why asking you to play the same fills is a strange request. If the music dictates it, then that's what you should try to do. I know it doesn't sound as fun as improvising, but the structure that it adds will likely allow you to do a little improvising once you've locked yourself in to what they want.
In Hanson Brothers, I play a total of 2 fills: one to open the show, and one completely obvious "here's the drummer's fill" fill towards the end of the set. When I first joined the band I wasn't sure I could handle the rigid structure. It was so locked in that I had to remember where there were closed-hat 8ths, ride 8ths, floor tom 8ths....all marks were required to be hit. Turns out to be a lot of fun, and it has allowed me to really focus on my beats, rhythm and time.
Yeah.....2 fills the entire show.

In the band I play bass in, our drummer is wildly inconsistent with fills. I've spoken to him time and time again about it. He tries fills that he has to wedge into spots, and then doesn't realize what he's doing to the rhythm, much less that he's not consistently back on the 1. When he hits a good fill, I stop the song and tell him "do THAT fill every time". He forgets it by the next time and it's lost. Takes forever for the band to get locked down with a drummer who approaches his playing like that.

Emo has structure. They're probably just looking for some familiarity with their songs that they feel is not coming through on the drums. There are other forms of music where you have more freedom to spread your wings. Maybe you should consider looking into some of them if this doesn't work out for you.
 
Gvdadrummasum said:
the word "fill" is way overused on this forum

as soon as you start thinking of drumming as "beats" and "fills" you run into things like the topic of this thread and the countless other threads about "fills" around here

it is just drumming ....it should all flow

as soon as you start separating them in your mind .....they sound separate

if you are playing a tune and feel a transition , a built, or a decay just react accordingly ..

if that reaction is some voicings around the kit ....then let it be that ..... whether those reactions are set in stone or improvised.....does not matter

if you free yourself from separating the two all of these problems that come up on this forum concerning "fills" will disappear


"fill" is my least favorite term in music

this "beats" and "fills" mind state is more times than not the reason for all the inappropriate over playing that goes on...
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I view it as well. Has served me well playing in bands for years in various genres.
 
I think there is room for both approaches. As Bermuda says, consistency is good and if you are driving the band, then they need to know what's likely to happen next. In my band, I tend to use the fills I play to dictate what happens next and keep everyone together. There are also tunes where this isn't either necessary or desirable and this gives me a bit of a chance to stretch out. I also tend to find that if we record something, the recorded version tends to become definative and we don't really stray from that from that moment, possibly because we hear it so often when recording parts and mixing it.

Don't be afraid of consistency.
 
mikeyhanson said:
If your band wants some consistency in their songs that they feel like they're not getting, I don't see why asking you to play the same fills is a strange request. If the music dictates it, then that's what you should try to do. I know it doesn't sound as fun as improvising, but the structure that it adds will likely allow you to do a little improvising once you've locked yourself in to what they want.
In Hanson Brothers, I play a total of 2 fills: one to open the show, and one completely obvious "here's the drummer's fill" fill towards the end of the set. When I first joined the band I wasn't sure I could handle the rigid structure. It was so locked in that I had to remember where there were closed-hat 8ths, ride 8ths, floor tom 8ths....all marks were required to be hit. Turns out to be a lot of fun, and it has allowed me to really focus on my beats, rhythm and time.
Yeah.....2 fills the entire show.

In the band I play bass in, our drummer is wildly inconsistent with fills. I've spoken to him time and time again about it. He tries fills that he has to wedge into spots, and then doesn't realize what he's doing to the rhythm, much less that he's not consistently back on the 1. When he hits a good fill, I stop the song and tell him "do THAT fill every time". He forgets it by the next time and it's lost. Takes forever for the band to get locked down with a drummer who approaches his playing like that.

Emo has structure. They're probably just looking for some familiarity with their songs that they feel is not coming through on the drums. There are other forms of music where you have more freedom to spread your wings. Maybe you should consider looking into some of them if this doesn't work out for you.
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Dude you hit it right on the spot man,SO well said... I'm good with timing and stuff but I have never had to be so rigid before. I feel like a stallion being tamed right now to the point where after practice I just wanna drum solo haha. I can relate to your story for the most part. Thanks so much!

bigiainw said:
I think there is room for both approaches. As Bermuda says, consistency is good and if you are driving the band, then they need to know what's likely to happen next. In my band, I tend to use the fills I play to dictate what happens next and keep everyone together. There are also tunes where this isn't either necessary or desirable and this gives me a bit of a chance to stretch out. I also tend to find that if we record something, the recorded version tends to become definative and we don't really stray from that from that moment, possibly because we hear it so often when recording parts and mixing it.

Don't be afraid of consistency.
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Yeah I'll have to remember that last bit about not being afraid of consistency. I also have to get over not being creative or trying to get the best possible beat out of the song, since it seems this genre is not about that.

Aeolian said:
A little confused by this statement. Unless you're playing well organized linear parts, most fills disrupt the groove. There are signature breaks like the Collins part, and signature hits like the hat sloshes in What Is Hip, but fills are transitional breaks in the groove.

Some folks in bands use a particular fill as a cue or waypost for where they are in the song. So if you start changing up that fill, they will lose their way. This is one reason that simple consistent drummers get the gigs. They make it easier on the other players, not harder. There are times, and with monster players, where being creative is a real plus. But for the most part, the band is not about the drummer. Other than the drummer creating the groove that everyone else stands on, and the audience responds to.
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I'm too used to just joining a band and having fun with whatever drum parts I write but it seems that this is not supposed to be the case this time; according to the responses I am getting from both you guys and the band it seems that I am just more of a point of reference, since "everyone follows (me)" according to my bandmates. I am used to everyone following everyone. So I'll change my ways up for 'em. No biggie
 
topgun2021 said:
In your situation, I think it would be really funny to only play all eight notes during fills, on one instrument at a time.
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Why is that funny? It worked for Everclear.

Here's how I see it: Improvisation is a great tool for expression or for composition. Often times when I was in rock bands, I would improvise fills, and if I did a fill that just seemed "right", I would do that same fill every time. Kind of like a riff or a lick. But, when you get into a live situation, the excitement of playing live can override the need to play everything "as rehearsed".

As a drummer for your band, your job is to know when to play what parts, remembering it's not all about the drummer. I've seen plenty of bands that have a great drummer with a lot of interesting ideas/fills, but it detracted from the songs. Not everyone can be Mitch Mitchell or Keith Moon all the time...
 
caddywumpus said:
Why is that funny? It worked for Everclear.

Here's how I see it: Improvisation is a great tool for expression or for composition. Often times when I was in rock bands, I would improvise fills, and if I did a fill that just seemed "right", I would do that same fill every time. Kind of like a riff or a lick. But, when you get into a live situation, the excitement of playing live can override the need to play everything "as rehearsed".

As a drummer for your band, your job is to know when to play what parts, remembering it's not all about the drummer. I've seen plenty of bands that have a great drummer with a lot of interesting ideas/fills, but it detracted from the songs. Not everyone can be Mitch Mitchell or Keith Moon all the time...
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I only play for the song when I fill.

I think some of you guys are getting the wrong impression of me. I'm not obnoxiously playing fourths over a song in 3/4, I'm not doing fills at the end of every phrase, I barely have any fills at all. And I'm fine with that. I'm fine being the background guy. I'm talking about having the fills I DO perform be based off an idea and playing what feels best based off of that idea, versus playing the same fill each time with no change whatsoever.
 
pxavier said:
No, because personally I consider that part of the groove.
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which was the point to my long winded post earlier in the thread

your "fills" should be part of your groove

as soon as they are not they completely disrupt the tune

check out my earlier post again
 
I'm assuming we're talking about a rock/pop band playing normal rock & roll songs? The way you find out which things are worth playing every time is by fooling around and improvising, so your bandmates should kind of get out of your face and let you play. For your part, you should constantly be refining your thing, making your playing better serve the music, which will often mean playing the same basic thing at the key places. Through trial and error you find out what works, and then you continue doing what works. But it's fun to play good stuff, so that should not feel like work to you. Playing the same sort-of-OK thing every time just for the sake of sameness, yes, will feel arbitrary/boring.
 
Gvdadrummasum said:
which was the point to my long winded post earlier in the thread

your "fills" should be part of your groove

as soon as they are not they completely disrupt the tune

check out my earlier post again
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I still think you are misunderstanding me, or I am not communicating clearly enough. Check out the links I posted if you have to.

toddbishop said:
I'm assuming we're talking about a rock/pop band playing normal rock & roll songs? The way you find out which things are worth playing every time is by fooling around and improvising, so your bandmates should kind of get out of your face and let you play. For your part, you should constantly be refining your thing, making your playing better serve the music, which will often mean playing the same basic thing at the key places. Through trial and error you find out what works, and then you continue doing what works. But it's fun to play good stuff, so that should not feel like work to you. Playing the same sort-of-OK thing every time just for the sake of sameness, yes, will feel arbitrary/boring.
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Amen to that, that's how I feel. And yes, I do refine as I go like I have in all of the other bands I've been in, but this one is much more rigid, which brought me to this forum wondering if I've been doing it wrong.
 
pxavier said:
I still think you are misunderstanding me, or I am not communicating clearly enough. Check out the links I posted if you have to.
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not misunderstanding you at all

bands don't always play things exactly the same live.... especially bands like Zeppelin and the Who

some bands do because they know the fans want to hear what they hear on the record

the first one that comes to mind is RUSH

if you check them out live and they play ....say....Tom Sawyer ....Neil knows that to his fans those drum parts are iconic and thousands of them will be air drumming along

he plays it very close to the record every time

Danny Carey is another that keeps his drumming really close to the record

use your discretion and play for the tune

if your band is going for a really tight situation that runs like a clock and the guys know what to expect every time you play the tune.....then have some set fills

if you guys are more explorative and take some chances and challenge each other while playing.....then wing some things

or better yet.....mix the two trains of thought together ....which is what I usually do in most of the outfits I play with
 
Gvdadrummasum said:
not misunderstanding you at all

bands don't always play things exactly the same live.... especially bands like Zeppelin and the Who

some bands do because they know the fans want to hear what they hear on the record

the first one that comes to mind is RUSH

if you check them out live and they play ....say....Tom Sawyer ....Neil knows that to his fans those drum parts are iconic and thousands of them will be air drumming along

he plays it very close to the record every time

Danny Carey is another that keeps his drumming really close to the record

use your discretion and play for the tune

if your band is going for a really tight situation that runs like a clock and the guys know what to expect every time you play the tune.....then have some set fills

if you guys are more explorative and take some chances and challenge each other while playing.....then wing some things

or better yet.....mix the two trains of thought together ....which is what I usually do in most of the outfits I play with
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Yeah man that's what I'm saying. I guess the answer is that it depends on the situation you are in. My other bands let me fill whenever and they can all keep up with it. When I don't fill and play based off of the energy I see in the audience, they can tell and usually ask me why I wasn't more active. So this band is very peculiar to me. I understand now though.
 
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