The smaller bass drum

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I wanted to throw this out and get some opinions. As some of you know, I did a review of my Sonor Bop kit and love it. What I didn't expect was how much I liked that little 18" bass drum once it was mic'd up and recorded. Most of my life has been spent with 22" and 24" bass drums, and I've settled in on the 20" with my pro kit. But this affordable little kit with the 18" bass drum (being used in a rock context no less) has me thinking maybe I could live with smaller.

I love Bernard Purdie's sound on all the hits, and Peter Erskine played an 18" bass drum with the Jaco Pastorius big band on the live album, Invitation years ago that I just loved. And all that great playing Will Kennedy did with the Yellowjackets I believe was when he went small with his Sonors back in the day. Sometimes I wonder if fate has been staring me in the face and I've just been ignoring it? I do love moving alot of air with the bigger bass drums, and it's nice to hear other things rattle when I slam my big bass drums, but I did notice that on a recording, I really couldn't hear a difference between the little 18" and a bigger drum. If I'm at the point now where I go out and mostly mic up all the time anyway, do you guys think it makes sense to carry a larger bass drum just because?

This is, of course, a theoretical debate designed to go on and on, but I'm seriously considering just jettisoning the idea of the larger bass drum on my next high-end kit and trying it. I suppose I could always just add a bigger bass drum later if I'm not happy with it, but I've never played, say, a Sonor SQ2 18" bass drum. Or other high-end little drums. Maybe it's time I found out why Bernard Purdie always played the 18. What do you guys think?
 
I have a kit with a 24"

I have 2 kits with 22" s

and one with an 18"

I use the 18" kick kit more than any kit recently

I get a great sound out of it

you can see the kit here.

a little clip from a cool gig I played on Sat. in one of the coolest rooms ive ever played.

a very intimate atmosphere surrounded by hundreds of violins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOPOqHYr2XQ&feature=player_embedded
 
I didn't know Purdie played (or recorded) an 18? Where does that info come from? I've seen pics of him but with larger drums.
I drag my drums out of house almost weekly to a practice studio for my band. To keep things simple, and easy on door jambs and me, I went from a 22, to an 18 (18 x 16 Taye Studio Maple). I have to say, I loved that kick, once I found the right heads and tuning for it. I don't mic, but realized if I did this little thing could pack a punch in any club. Its note was pure. But it could only be tuned so low, and that was one limitation. Like you, I eventually settled on a 20 (Slingerland). That size is perfect for me now, both to lug around, and the punch it gives.
Like all drums, the 18 is fine depending on your application, and even the superior choice in many apps. I definitely see how it works so well for jazz music.
 
You know, I've never played a kit that didn't have a 22" bass drum. !4, 16, and now 18" depths, but always the same diameter.

This makes me wonder what I'm missing. I've thought about getting a 24" for my main kit, and considered a 16" or 18" for a coffeehouse kit, but I've never done more than think about it...
 
My 18x14 (Gretsch New Classic) has absolutely no trouble standing up to anything. Then again, we may play very different styles of music. I play mainly lightly amplified jazz/funk/fusion and it can be as quiet or loud with more than enough headroom remaining.

I would have absolutely no troubles considering taking it on a wedding / corporate gig kind of thing either. There's plenty of tuning range on that particular drum to go up or down in tone. If I changed the heads to something more along the lines of a Superkick, I'd be more than willing to bet it's capable of delivering a solid punch if need be.

I'll be getting another 18x14 Gretsch USA Custom within the next several weeks and have no hesitations that it'll be just as killer for my situation as well.

Just my experience anyways...
 
I didn't know Purdie played (or recorded) an 18? Where does that info come from? I've seen pics of him but with larger drums.
I drag my drums out of house almost weekly to a practice studio for my band. To keep things simple, and easy on door jambs and me, I went from a 22, to an 18 (18 x 16 Taye Studio Maple). I have to say, I loved that kick, once I found the right heads and tuning for it. I don't mic, but realized if I did this little thing could pack a punch in any club. Its note was pure. But it could only be tuned so low, and that was one limitation. Like you, I eventually settled on a 20 (Slingerland). That size is perfect for me now, both to lug around, and the punch it gives.
Like all drums, the 18 is fine depending on your application, and even the superior choice in many apps. I definitely see how it works so well for jazz music.

Most of the old photos I've seen with him have him playing old Sonor drums with an 18" bass drum - this would even be during the Aretha years, I'm assuming. But his great instructional DVD has him playing a Sonor kit with an 18" bass drum. And on the Steely Dan DVD about the recording of Aja, Bernard was the drummer they used for the live 'band now' segments and he was playing a DW kit with an 18" bass drum. I keep looking at how I enjoy playing with a band these days and I seriously just love to sit there and groove and not show off as much as I used to when I was in my teens. And over time I've gotten to the point where I'm even carrying my own PA to mic up the drums (Gary Chester advice from his book The New Breed).
 
The only trouble I had w/my 18" was me not hearing it if it wasn't mic'd. My band mates could hear it though. With a mic there's no problem.
There's a wide range of what sounds good and I think you can find that w/an 18". So for me it's all up to the mic.
And yeah, if I have to hump my gear I go w/ less and smaller and less.
 
I don't even own a 22 inch bass drum anymore.
I have a kit with a 16 x 20, a kit with a16 x 16, and two kits with a 14 x 18 inch bass.
I was thinking about ordering an 18 x 22 for my Mapex Saturn kit that currently has a 14 x 18. I was going to use it as an optional bass drum but I thought about it and I said "Nah"
 
...I am taking my 18,14,12 jazz kit over to a buddys house for what will be our weekly jam.

My 18 is the bass drum that I like the least, but it is perfect for a leave it set up at the jam space kit. This will be another wrists and brushes with a couple of "WoooWoooWooooos" thrown in, lower volume "Honey can you keep it down, Glee is on" thing.

I would much prefer to create a thunderstorm with the big classics.

Barry
 
Funny what's happening with bass drums. More people are starting to use smaller diameters, but manufacturers are making them deeper.

AFAIK, 14" used to be the standard depth in a 22 or 24 inch BD. But 14" depth is getting real hard to find, while smaller diameters are getting easier to find.
I would have preferred a 20x14, but settled for a 20x17 on my recent kit..

My older 18" bass drum is 15" deep, but I think most of the 18's available nowadays are deeper than that.
My 18's set up to give a nice thump/thwack. But overall, the 20's got a greater range.

I've got a 22 that I've been working on, but I'm less and less inclined to finish it, because I know I probably won't use it. If I do finish it, It'll most likely go up for sale.


EDIT: my 18 inch BD is 14" deep, not 15 - they've even got me brainwashed now - ha ha.
 
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Amazing how the Ludwig Club Date really hit the nail on the head with the 12, 14, and 20 configuration. I think the 20 would be the obvious better choice because then I can move enough air and the 14 inch depth would keep it a manageable size. Too bad Sonor won't make a 14x20 unless it's an SQ2 drum. But they do have 14x18's as part of the Prolite series.

But then again, there are a few shops that can get a new Ludwig Club Date for alot less, eh? If I had saved up for a Prolite or an SQ2, I'd have enough left over to add a Black Beauty to it ;)

The 18 still intrigues me though. I was able to have the 12 rack tom on my Bop kit right in the most comfortable position which put the head just about two inches above my snare.
 
Another thing that may be the issue is, as has already been mentioned, the depth of the bass drum. Is it really the diameter of the drum we're going after or just the fact that you don't feel as "part of the band" when you're pushed behind the set even farther away because the bass drum is so deep?

John Bonham and Buddy Rich with their 14x26 bass drums probably didn't take up as much floor space as a guy with an 18x22, or 18x20 bass drum, right? It's a shame that not everybody makes the good ol' 14" deep bass drums anymore. They're always a special order or you're getting it from Ludwig ;)
 
Amazing how the Ludwig Club Date really hit the nail on the head with the 12, 14, and 20 configuration. I think the 20 would be the obvious better choice because then I can move enough air and the 14 inch depth would keep it a manageable size. Too bad Sonor won't make a 14x20 unless it's an SQ2 drum. But they do have 14x18's as part of the Prolite series.

But then again, there are a few shops that can get a new Ludwig Club Date for alot less, eh? If I had saved up for a Prolite or an SQ2, I'd have enough left over to add a Black Beauty to it ;)

The 18 still intrigues me though. I was able to have the 12 rack tom on my Bop kit right in the most comfortable position which put the head just about two inches above my snare.

thats about exactly where my rack tom sits

and being a shorter guy the 18 is very comfortable, even with the lift so I catch the sweet spot
 
One other advantage for us small guys, Matt: It's more proportional without terribly affecting the sound. A kit I play at church has power toms over a 22" kick, and those things feel like I'm playing with my arms over my head compared to my 20". I'm also really intrigued by the idea of an 18" for some of the places in this smaller town I live in. Maybe I'll pick up an 18" in addition to the 20" on the next kit I buy, to have the flexibility.

I loved your video with the Sonors, btw... nice work.
 
This thread is sort of timely for me. I just moved my maple kit with a 22bd,10,12,16,18 out of our rehearsal/jam space and put in my Gretsch Cat Jazz.

The room is 30'x36' with word floors and high ceilings. That little kit fills the room beautifully and I love the quick punch of the smaller bass drum.

I'm all mic'd up but to be honest, if I just lean into it a bit more I don't even need the sound reinforcement in a 1,100 sq. ft. room. When we get really loud, I just add a bit to the mix through the PA and it sounds great.

Nobody's ever said that my bass drum has been lost in the mix. I love not just the size and convenience of the smaller kit, but I really like the sound.

When I was stomping on my 22"BD in that room before it always dominated the feel and most times as the night wore on, everyone would just get louder and louder.

Guitar players.. haha
 
Drum kit 'fit' is something not talked about much, but I've been thinking about it recently.

Your thighs should be almost parallel to the floor when playing. Any higher and you start approaching a 'standing' position. With your thighs close to parallel to the floor, and your arms bent at 90 degrees at the elbows and parallel with the floor, your snare should be below the hand position.

When sitting in that position with your arms extended straight out, your toms should be below your hands, and you should be able to reach them comfortably while still maintaining a bend in your elbows (not locked straight out).

With some kits I've played, my arms had to be quite a bit above parallel to the floor to play the toms. I can do it, and do it well, but I never realized that I wasn't in my 'physical comfort zone' until I moved to a smaller bass drum, dropped the toms down, and started analyzing the new positions and how much more comfortable they are.

Another benefit is that my snare and toms can be at close to the same height, and I can move between them much quicker without having to have my sticks 'jump the gap' between heights. I like a close, tight, setup, with the snare and all toms almost touching, and I can get that with a smaller bass drum. I still have a small drop to the floor tom, but it's much less than it was.

Rambling thoughts, I know, but I thought they might be worth throwing out there.



.
 
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This thread is sort of timely for me. I just moved my maple kit with a 22bd,10,12,16,18 out of our rehearsal/jam space and put in my Gretsch Cat Jazz.

The room is 30'x36' with word floors and high ceilings. That little kit fills the room beautifully and I love the quick punch of the smaller bass drum.

I'm all mic'd up but to be honest, if I just lean into it a bit more I don't even need the sound reinforcement in a 1,100 sq. ft. room. When we get really loud, I just add a bit to the mix through the PA and it sounds great.

Nobody's ever said that my bass drum has been lost in the mix. I love not just the size and convenience of the smaller kit, but I really like the sound.

When I was stomping on my 22"BD in that room before it always dominated the feel and most times as the night wore on, everyone would just get louder and louder.

Guitar players.. haha

So true! There's this lick I always do where I'll hit the tom at the same time while I hit the bass drum (like a double stop between hand and foot), and even with the 20", the bass drum sort of obliterates the tom note when I hear it on the play back. Apparently, the way I play bass drum really makes it like it's not part of the same drum set sometimes. I think Jack DeJohnette was onto something when he came on the scene with his little 16" bass drum. It really was like an extension of his other drums. When he went to 18s, the effect was the same, just a bit deeper.

And then the concept of 'dropping bombs' really got out of control. And when rock n roll hit it was no longer about being felt, but rather bludgeoned to death!
 
ok this thread seem appropriate for this question

as I stated in an earlier post im a shorter cat, 5' 5" with shoes on.

I dont have a kit with a 20" kick

just 24" which is lent to a friend in LA

an 18" that is a Catalina that I use a bunch on lighter gigs

and a Pearl Masters with a 22" that I use for louder rock gigs

heres my question.

on the Pearl I use 2 up 2 down, 10 and 12 mounted each on a cymbal stand meeting in the middle over a virgin kick drum

I like my toms pretty flat ( Carlock-ish set up) and over the 22" kick they feel slightly high and I have to put my seat just a touch higher than I like it to be when playing that kit.


so my question is will the 20 make much of a difference?

where's my short drum brothers at?

I'm tempted to put in the order with my guy at Pearl but want to run it by you guys first
 
...

Totally there with you on this one, Bo. Same mindset ( except that I dont have one yet ) .

I think if you use your foot a lot, as I do, then a 22" doesnt work nearly as well as an 18" or even a 16". My friend Ranjit who plays with McLaughlin's 4th Dimension is playing a 16" and thats a powerhouse band.

...
 
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