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  #41  
Old 08-10-2010, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

I see your point, KIS. I'm not a big fan of dressing up something to make it "look" like something else. I understand that some drummers use the kick AND trigger setup and if you weren't that it would look dumb having a pad under a bunch of toms, but as a drummer I like to see what other drummers are playing through.

Another avenue I like seeing traveled is using two kick drums instead of triggers to clean-up a busy bass sound. One of my favorite drummers is Danny Carey and he does exactly that. I've seen him do clinics as well as perform with Tool numerous times and he's never had a trigger anywhere on his kit. Sure he uses those e-pads for different sounds, but when he hits his kick, snare, or toms you know it's a drum. Again, I know it's all personal prefrence.
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  #42  
Old 08-10-2010, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

Brew, I agree. If my ears are happy I don't care.

Generally, I'm not into bands that could be convincingly dubbed in a concert - they tend to be dance shows, which are cool in their own way, but I prefer more music/less dance.
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  #43  
Old 08-10-2010, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

Wow, Andy. Witch hunt for triggers?

I'd love to hear your opinion on beat detecting / correcting software. :)
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  #44  
Old 08-10-2010, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Wow, Andy. Witch hunt for triggers?

I'd love to hear your opinion on beat detecting / correcting software. :)
Perhaps better than a trigger hunt for witches? :)

Let's hear it for the wonders of Pro Tools!
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  #45  
Old 08-10-2010, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Wow, Andy. Witch hunt for triggers?

I'd love to hear your opinion on beat detecting / correcting software. :)
No Jer, not a witch hunt, just a mini rant, & I've been suitably spanked accordingly.

But hey, whoah, hold on one minute, beat detecting/correcting software? Does that exist? (he types, knowing full well he's just made himself look even more out of touch) That sounds like something I could rant about, if I knew anything about it that is. Does that mean that a drummer who can't keep time, or hold down a groove, can be made to sound good? In real time? So maybe even at a gig?

This really is depressing. If all that's true, the only advantage I have left is my good looks, but they went 20 years ago, I just can't bring myself to admit it!
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  #46  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post

But hey, whoah, hold on one minute, beat detecting/correcting software? Does that exist? (he types, knowing full well he's just made himself look even more out of touch) That sounds like something I could rant about, if I knew anything about it that is. Does that mean that a drummer who can't keep time, or hold down a groove, can be made to sound good? In real time? So maybe even at a gig?

This really is depressing. If all that's true, the only advantage I have left is my good looks, but they went 20 years ago, I just can't bring myself to admit it!
Not real time, yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ZJKdM8bE8

It's a long video, but explains what's going on. Sorry to be the one to break this news to you.
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  #47  
Old 08-10-2010, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Not real time, yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ZJKdM8bE8

It's a long video, but explains what's going on. Sorry to be the one to break this news to you.
Phew! Great that it's not real time. But hey, surely that can only be one step away. As devils advocate, I can save a ton of cash on studio time. All I have to do is find a long flight of stairs, then push the kit off the top & record the resultant row. Tell the desk jockey what feel we want, then go to the pub! And while I'm at it, everyone can be a drummer, no skills or timing required whatsoever. Everyone's equal, how cool is that! Drumming goes communist, whoohoo! "Drummerworld" just becomes "World". "Show us your chops" just becomes "show us yours", & Matt becomes yet another American tourist in South Eastern Europe.

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  #48  
Old 08-10-2010, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Phew! Great that it's not real time. But hey, surely that can only be one step away. As devils advocate, I can save a ton of cash on studio time. All I have to do is find a long flight of stairs, then push the kit off the top & record the resultant row. Tell the desk jockey what feel we want, then go to the pub! ---
Well, that's pop music for the last 10-15 years in a nut shell....
Notice how many venues have DJ's now rather than bands?
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  #49  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Not real time, yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ZJKdM8bE8

It's a long video, but explains what's going on. Sorry to be the one to break this news to you.
More sad news: pitch correction is available in real time, and my buddies in the recording industry tell me that far more singers use it, both live and on record, than don't.

Now imagine going back to some of Jeff Porcaro's tracks and "fixing" them with pro-tools--taking that awful slightly-late backbeat and "correcting" it back where it belongs! Why, you could make it sound as sterile as most records do today! ;-)
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  #50  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:17 PM
BuddyBeaufordGaddNeil BuddyBeaufordGaddNeil is offline
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

Great drummers dont need triggers. Did Buddy Rich, Tony Williams, etc. need them? Does Steve Gadd, Carter Beauford, Neil Peart, Danny Carey, etc. need or use them??
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  #51  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by Pass.of.E.r.a. View Post
I wonder if guitarists ever get into this kind of disscussion, cause I mean triggers/e Kits are probably similar to the "Acuostic - Electric with lots of effect pedal" debate. If you think about it using triggers is very close to using an electric guitar to send a signal to an effect pedal, which then sends another signal to an amp with the distortion knob on10, which sounds very different than an acoustic bass dr- erm I mean guitar.
I can actually speak to this point, I've played guitar far longer that I've played drums. I'm primarily an electric player but I do classical and a little hippy acoustic.

I've only met a small handful or acoustic purists that actually turn their noses up at electric players and I think most of us will discount their view for what it is, snobbery. Even strange and wacky effects like loopers (remember the loop craze of the 90's) is generally accepted and operates in its own little niche. One of my favorite guitarists is Tom Morello from Rage Against the Machine, most players who don't even like him view his style as "something different/new" but just that it is not for them. They don't call what he does "cheating" or "miming"... although personally I love mimes.

My theory on this is because Electric guitars have been around much longer that electric drums. We as musicians and the adoring public have simply become accustomed to this while we're used to seeing acoustic kits on stage. People are visual, they expect a certain look from their musicians like the double bass kits that Polly mentioned.

Another point to mention here:

There's a great article in the newest Modern Drummer showing off Vinnie Paul's kit. He uses triggers ALONG with the miked sound of his kicks so he doesn't lose the low end in a large venue. I don't listen to Pantera but I know that he doesn't play at the speeds where he "need" them, it's just to improve his sound. Is this cheating? Personally I see it as just improving his sound just like he would with mics and effects.

...just my 2 cents
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  #52  
Old 08-11-2010, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by BuddyBeaufordGaddNeil View Post
Great drummers dont need triggers. Did Buddy Rich, Tony Williams, etc. need them? Does Steve Gadd, Carter Beauford, Neil Peart, Danny Carey, etc. need or use them??
None of those drummers ever played at 260bpm sixteenths though. The fact of the matter is, that in some styles of music triggers are a necessity due to the tempos involved, and the requirement that kick drum cuts through cleanly. When I play for my local county jazz band, I'd never dream of triggering my kick as I would lose my dynamics and it would not give me the desired sound. When I play Extreme Metal triggers are required, as no one can play 270 sixteenths and have a defined kick sounds, it just sounds like a iindistinguishable rumble, that doesn't allow the band to lock in.

Pretty much any album produced in the last couple of decades will have had the drums sound replaced anyway.
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  #53  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
Well, that's pop music for the last 10-15 years in a nut shell....
Notice how many venues have DJ's now rather than bands?
I was thinking that too ... plastic, plastic and more plastic.

Red, interesting thoughts. Back when Jimi was breaking down doors with his electric effects his partner in crime was an acoustic drummer ... just playing louder and with less inhibition than drummers beforehand. The mainstream e-drum shift happened in the 80s.

Now the charts have heaps of drum machines and not too many electric guitars.

For those of us who are middle aged, our time has passed. No matter how hip we thought we'd be, the young 'uns managed to find a way to piss us off, just as we did to our parents, as they annoyed their parents before them, etc. (Apart from DED, who's somehow managed to remain pretty hip :)

The mind boggles as to what our current kids' children will be listening to. How do you hurt the ears of people who are already enamoured with musical irritants like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRfARLi0wbc?


Maybe back to the future? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK3ZP6frAMc. That's pretty effin' annoying.

This would bug almost anyone ... haha ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGMs1rOAXDA


Like generations before I pin my hopes on the full-scale retro revival that never seems to happen ... I guess in 30 years time the kids will all be microchipped and plugged into Google anyway and speaking mind-to-mind through implanted wireless communications technology, so robot music will probably make sense.

This 'toon seems appropriate again ...

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  #54  
Old 08-11-2010, 06:07 AM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

The guitar effects vs. drum triggering "debate" is nothing of the sort and not something anyone acquainted with guitar effects would ever bring up.

Guitar effects require an adjustment of technique. You have to adjust depending on the guitar, amp and effects you are using. Input gain changes from using a pedal can require massive changes in the attack of the notes played.

I doubt any drum trigger setup requires finesse to use. You break the input threshold for triggering the trigger, you get the triggered sound. That's the whole point. To make the notes uniform.

You're making the drums sound better than you really are.

Call me a drum snob. I don't care.
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  #55  
Old 08-11-2010, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

I've always said that there is room for everyone in music. Whatever you want to do to create sounds, is OK. (short of hurting people and animals of course)
Personally, I prefer a real acoustic drum sound. If you're playing so fast that the bass drum loses attack, then your ability exceeds the instruments intended use. You can stop now lol.
You can't stop "progress". You can however further your own vision of what music "should" be.
Personally, I rate speed much much lower than musicality (which is very personal and totally subjective).
I have more respect for a drummer that can swing an acoustic set and drive a band over someone who can trigger a kick and play sterile perfectly uniform/no humanness16ths at 250 bpm.
But that's just my own personal tastes. There are people who are polar opposite who may think that my preferences are stuck in the past. Hey I like what I like, no crime there.
My point is you just have to accept everything.
You don't have to like it or use it, but you can't down it, because then you are downing the people who believe in whatever you don't like. (Or that is how it is taken)
There's something about a recorded natural sound that will always appeal to me. It's a real thing. Is it real? If so, I will like and respect it more. I'd rather hear human inconsistensies over studio perfection every day of the week. Music is losing it's humaness and we are slowly being conditioned to be more like machines, just my opinion. It's sad to me.

Human I can relate to, machine like precision leaves me yearning for human imperfection. I've never gotten a chill from speed metal bass drumming, but I'm sure others have.
There will always be a faction of people who are with you and against you. The only thing you can do is support the music that's in your heart, and let the rest of the world do what it will. It's not hurting anyone bottom line. Mankind is taking a certain path, and to me it seems like we will eventually become half human, half machine. The music is reflecting that.
I feel bad for the kids in the future who will grow up raised on completely quantitized music. How sad that is to me, but to those kids, they won't know any better. The world may be going to hell in a handbasket, but while I'm here, I'm gonna live life the way I see fit, and seek out and enjoy the things that appeal to me, and let others enjoy what they like.
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  #56  
Old 08-11-2010, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
More sad news: pitch correction is available in real time, and my buddies in the recording industry tell me that far more singers use it, both live and on record, than don't.
And if they aren't using an auto-tune live, they are just lip-syncing.

Speaking of lip-syncing, how many acts out there are simply miming to a recorded track? Happens all the time on live television, why not in the arena as well?

How often are drummers just there for show while the programmed drum part is being played by a sequencer?
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  #57  
Old 08-11-2010, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I was watching this info video from Tim http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPhswBjfZfw (no offense Tim, just by way of example) and it featured the use of a kick pedal trigger. As an incidental point, the upside down orientation changes the way a finely balanced pedal behaves, nevertheless, I think the kick sound is just horrible. Ok, maybe you want that sound, I can cope with that (just), but what's all this using a trigger then putting a perfectly good acoustic kick drum in front of it about? Come on, please. If you must use a trigger, have the guts to show so proudly. Please don't use the veil of a beautiful instrument as a vanity mask for your nasty little farting noise generators. I don't get the trigger thing anyhow. Why not just use an Ekit? I even think this trigger sound/acoustic costume thing is giving our beloved acoustic drums a bad name, it's certainly misrepresentation. It's as bad as miming, isn't it? It's just a pathetic attempt at painting some form of authenticity over an uninspiring sound generation device. Rant over.
The sound I chose is just one of the many from the roland Spd 20 YES this is an 80's Cheesy sound LOL
After a certain speed you need to trigger to cut through the wall of sound in a band
in this clip Im using th e Roand Spd20 plugged directly into my camera.
Live i use an accoustic kit with no triggers.
if i play in an extreme metal band and the speed requires it Ill trigger a sound or use an Electronic kit for definition and variety of sounds
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  #58  
Old 08-11-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddyBeaufordGaddNeil View Post
Great drummers dont need triggers. Did Buddy Rich, Tony Williams, etc. need them? Does Steve Gadd, Carter Beauford, Neil Peart, Danny Carey, etc. need or use them??
Neil Peart and Danny Carey are both big users of e-drums.
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  #59  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I've always said that there is room for everyone in music. Whatever you want to do to create sounds, is OK. (short of hurting people and animals of course)
Personally, I prefer a real acoustic drum sound. If you're playing so fast that the bass drum loses attack, then your ability exceeds the instruments intended use. You can stop now lol.
You can't stop "progress". You can however further your own vision of what music "should" be.
Personally, I rate speed much much lower than musicality (which is very personal and totally subjective).
I have more respect for a drummer that can swing an acoustic set and drive a band over someone who can trigger a kick and play sterile perfectly uniform/no humanness16ths at 250 bpm.
But that's just my own personal tastes. There are people who are polar opposite who may think that my preferences are stuck in the past. Hey I like what I like, no crime there.
My point is you just have to accept everything.
You don't have to like it or use it, but you can't down it, because then you are downing the people who believe in whatever you don't like. (Or that is how it is taken)
There's something about a recorded natural sound that will always appeal to me. It's a real thing. Is it real? If so, I will like and respect it more. I'd rather hear human inconsistensies over studio perfection every day of the week. Music is losing it's humaness and we are slowly being conditioned to be more like machines, just my opinion. It's sad to me.

Human I can relate to, machine like precision leaves me yearning for human imperfection. I've never gotten a chill from speed metal bass drumming, but I'm sure others have.
There will always be a faction of people who are with you and against you. The only thing you can do is support the music that's in your heart, and let the rest of the world do what it will. It's not hurting anyone bottom line. Mankind is taking a certain path, and to me it seems like we will eventually become half human, half machine. The music is reflecting that.
I feel bad for the kids in the future who will grow up raised on completely quantitized music. How sad that is to me, but to those kids, they won't know any better. The world may be going to hell in a handbasket, but while I'm here, I'm gonna live life the way I see fit, and seek out and enjoy the things that appeal to me, and let others enjoy what they like.
Nice post Larry, & I'm with you 99% of your post. The only caveat is I'll always find little things that get under my skin. My OP subject is one of them. Pathetic, I know, but I'm never perfect, nor all things to all men.
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  #60  
Old 08-12-2010, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I've always said that there is room for everyone in music. Whatever you want to do to create sounds, is OK. (short of hurting people and animals of course)
Personally, I prefer a real acoustic drum sound. If you're playing so fast that the bass drum loses attack, then your ability exceeds the instruments intended use. You can stop now lol.
You can't stop "progress". You can however further your own vision of what music "should" be.
Personally, I rate speed much much lower than musicality (which is very personal and totally subjective).
I have more respect for a drummer that can swing an acoustic set and drive a band over someone who can trigger a kick and play sterile perfectly uniform/no humanness16ths at 250 bpm.
But that's just my own personal tastes. There are people who are polar opposite who may think that my preferences are stuck in the past. Hey I like what I like, no crime there.
My point is you just have to accept everything.
You don't have to like it or use it, but you can't down it, because then you are downing the people who believe in whatever you don't like. (Or that is how it is taken)
There's something about a recorded natural sound that will always appeal to me. It's a real thing. Is it real? If so, I will like and respect it more. I'd rather hear human inconsistensies over studio perfection every day of the week. Music is losing it's humaness and we are slowly being conditioned to be more like machines, just my opinion. It's sad to me.

Human I can relate to, machine like precision leaves me yearning for human imperfection. I've never gotten a chill from speed metal bass drumming, but I'm sure others have.
There will always be a faction of people who are with you and against you. The only thing you can do is support the music that's in your heart, and let the rest of the world do what it will. It's not hurting anyone bottom line. Mankind is taking a certain path, and to me it seems like we will eventually become half human, half machine. The music is reflecting that.
I feel bad for the kids in the future who will grow up raised on completely quantitized music. How sad that is to me, but to those kids, they won't know any better. The world may be going to hell in a handbasket, but while I'm here, I'm gonna live life the way I see fit, and seek out and enjoy the things that appeal to me, and let others enjoy what they like.
Here, here! Epic response.
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  #61  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I'll always find little things that get under my skin. My OP subject is one of them. Pathetic, I know, but I'm never perfect, nor all things to all men.
Andy I hear ya. I get annoyed easily too. But I just keep it in it's place, and kinda reject it in my mind and instead try to imagine what wouldn't annoy me in that particular situation.

Fake handclap backbeats annoy me to no end, I'm thinking how could anyone OK that sound? I'll never get it, like the bar is being lowered and no one cares. Can't stop it, but I can counter it by keeping alive the traditions of real, minimally processed music made with traditional "analog" instruments.

Of the non musicians that listen to music, drums are the last thing they care about, IMO. It's more the singer, the song, not the chassis of the song. But to me it's a big deal, and if I roll over and go with that particular flow, (handclap backbeats) then I am not a man I am a spineless lump of jelly.

If I had to do a session where that sound was required...I'd bail. I wouldn't support that line of thought, or put my name on anything that repulses me. Luckily I don't need music for financial survival, because that sounds crazy turning down a recording session. But it's a personal integrity issue for me. I won't do canned handclap backbeats.
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  #62  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

Cheers Larry, I keep those little hates in check too. They don't impact my life in any way. However, I feel I can rant here from a point of pure bias, because I'm amongst my fellow Em8's (sorry, been texting with my teen daughter, lol), & enjoy getting flamed from time to time too!

Completely with you on the canned claps thang, double yuk! How about that other late 70's disco percussion craze, the double boo boooo electric tom effect, or early 80's wind chimes in every possible mellow rock refrain, or-------
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  #63  
Old 08-13-2010, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
For those of us who are middle aged, our time has passed. No matter how hip we thought we'd be, the young 'uns managed to find a way to piss us off, just as we did to our parents, as they annoyed their parents before them, etc. (Apart from DED, who's somehow managed to remain pretty hip :)
Who? Me?? Nah, can't be. I've never been hip.
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  #64  
Old 08-13-2010, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Who? Me?? Nah, can't be. I've never been hip.
I was "hip" back when it was "hep."

Not since then, however. ;-)
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  #65  
Old 08-14-2010, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

This leads me to the next great question (or debate?) What is Hip?

(please somebody get the reference...)

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  #66  
Old 08-14-2010, 03:12 PM
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This leads me to the next great question (or debate?) What is Hip?

(please somebody get the reference...)

-Jonathan
That's easy: an outstanding song by Tower of Power.

And, propos of the topic, it happens to contain the greatest one-note fill ever recorded. On the bass drum. Which was not triggered.
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  #67  
Old 08-14-2010, 05:30 PM
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Fiery Fiery is offline
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Phew! Great that it's not real time. But hey, surely that can only be one step away. As devils advocate, I can save a ton of cash on studio time. All I have to do is find a long flight of stairs, then push the kit off the top & record the resultant row. Tell the desk jockey what feel we want, then go to the pub! And while I'm at it, everyone can be a drummer, no skills or timing required whatsoever.
As an interesting side note, correction of takes was done with tape recordings too, decades ago. Sound engineers would actually cut the tape into pieces and re-attach them accordingly to splice together different takes and even to correct note placement.

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Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
Now imagine going back to some of Jeff Porcaro's tracks and "fixing" them with pro-tools--taking that awful slightly-late backbeat and "correcting" it back where it belongs! Why, you could make it sound as sterile as most records do today! ;-)
I read somewhere that the beat in "Africa" is just four best bars out of a take looped through the whole song. I guess studio tricks are as old as studios themselves.

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Music is losing it's humaness and we are slowly being conditioned to be more like machines, just my opinion.
Though one can usually see me defending new technology, I agree with this observation. The evenness and precision of time and dynamics expected in some genres of music is becoming impossible to achieve by any drummer, no matter how good. It's starting to lose any sense.

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Originally Posted by Ekim View Post
I doubt any drum trigger setup requires finesse to use. You break the input threshold for triggering the trigger, you get the triggered sound. That's the whole point. To make the notes uniform.

You're making the drums sound better than you really are.

Call me a drum snob. I don't care.
You're not a snob, but you are uninformed. Playing with triggers will even out the dynamics if you set them up that way, but it will also make any timing inaccuracies that much more obvious. There's no low rumble to hide behind, every misplaced stroke is heard with perfect clarity. Triggers also demand great cleanliness of strokes - if they're set up with high sensitivity, you have to make sure the beater touches the head once and only once for each stroke, and if the sensitivity is low you have to make sure each stroke is loud enough for the beater to register.

All in all, it's not as simple as plug in trigger - sound better.
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  #68  
Old 08-14-2010, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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As an interesting side note, correction of takes was done with tape recordings too, decades ago. Sound engineers would actually cut the tape into pieces and re-attach them accordingly to splice together different takes and even to correct note placement.
Completely true, but very time consuming, and nowhere near as easily applied. Isolating a single off time beat & correcting it was near impossible, due mainly to overspill from other mic sources & inability to separate tracks from a 2" multitrack tape. I spent many hours in studios decades ago, ahem, and observed most of the tricks available at that time. It's certainly true to say that higher end studios of the day used every trick possible to augment or correct the end result. I suppose the difference with the modern technology is that it's so flexible, accurate, easy to use, & available to the many. Time consuming & skill based tricks in "old times" were only available to the elite few who could afford it. Hell, when I was doing the circuit, virtually, only bands with deals could dream of 24 track time.

Now you've got me going down memory lane. Chinagraph pencils, the whole band riding the faders on mixdown, flying edits, making sure nobody bashed into the plate reverb unit (usually half the control room wall), ah well.

On a serious note though, am I right in saying that many are moving away from digital & going back to analogue? I remember my last (regretably budget) studio venture when the whole thing was mixed down digitally. No correction (no time), but digital representation of parametric EQ, etc. It was horrible. Just didn't get that feel vibe with the controls. I think it makes a difference. Not only to the sound, but also the mindset through greater human interaction. To me, there's something more organic & creative about twiddling knobs. Subjective & personal, I know, but it's real to me.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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That's easy: an outstanding song by Tower of Power.

And, propos of the topic, it happens to contain the greatest one-note fill ever recorded. On the bass drum. Which was not triggered.
Lol you are my hero!!

-Jonathan
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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On a serious note though, am I right in saying that many are moving away from digital & going back to analogue? I remember my last (regretably budget) studio venture when the whole thing was mixed down digitally. No correction (no time), but digital representation of parametric EQ, etc. It was horrible. Just didn't get that feel vibe with the controls. I think it makes a difference. Not only to the sound, but also the mindset through greater human interaction. To me, there's something more organic & creative about twiddling knobs. Subjective & personal, I know, but it's real to me.
KIS. One day I might send you some of my work that I'm doing at Uni. It's absolutely to do with the concept of the 'Post-Digital'. Kim Cascone has written some great articles about it (about ten years ago) I recommend you look them up.

It does make a difference on the tactile front. I like working 'In The Box' and do a lot of my editing using a mouse, but I do like sometimes having hardware. When I write bespoke software in Max/MSP (which I do a lot) I often program it to my Akai control surface just because it's easier to perform that way.

The work I'm currently doing is a sound installation that needs two tape playback machines. I'm trying to get use of two old reel-to-reels we have (and I'm about the only person under the age of thirty to know how, it would seem!) because I really like the imperfection of analogue systems. That said, I do most of my recording and editing digitally and then master to tape. The flexibility of digital editing is remarkable compared to what was possible even ten years ago. If I told somebody in the late 90's what Logic Pro could do then told them it cost me 120, I think they'd have a thrombosis.

I also write very challenging music that exploits digital audio glitches and errors to critique the inherent issues with digitalism in general. Couldn't do it without a computer!
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:26 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Please don't use the veil of a beautiful instrument as a vanity mask for your nasty little farting noise generators.
Awesome post. I wish everybody wrote like this- life would be so much more fun.
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  #72  
Old 01-07-2011, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Old fart rant over trigger fart kick drums.

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Awesome post. I wish everybody wrote like this- life would be so much more fun.
I wrote that? Really? I must have been having a good day. Still feel the same, even though I've been flamed for it, lol!
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