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  #121  
Old 04-23-2010, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Remember the Vic Firth "Dave Weckl" drumming shoes? I mean really?
This has got to be a winner.......I've never heard of 'drumming shoes'....Weckl or otherwise.

"Really?" indeed Muckster. If ever there was a thing that didn't need to be invented, let alone sold, we have just found it!
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  #122  
Old 04-23-2010, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Like Al, I have no idea what became of my rotos. I guess they went to the same place as missing pens, books and umbrellas.
I know where my Rotos went. I threw them into the metal recycle dumpster at work about two years ago after not having played them for about 25 years! I didn't even have the heart to sell them to anyone!
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  #123  
Old 04-23-2010, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

Regarding the "floor toms have to have legs" issue, I don't agree. For the past eighteen years I've been hanging my big tom from my ride cymbal stand and everything's fine. Why should it wobble or shake? Mine doesn't. Okay, it's just a 13" x 13" so maybe that's why. Probably it's only good for smaller drums. If you're using an 18" floor tom I guess it might be dodgy.

The thing that's good about it is that my drums are always set up exactly the same way every time. I just hook them together and there you are. Both of my toms are suspended with iso-mounts and they both hang from my cymbal stands. I take them out of their cases, hook them up and I'm done.

Memory locks, one of the greatest inventions in drums ever!

My vote for the worst idea still goes to the drum frame.
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  #124  
Old 04-23-2010, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Regarding the "floor toms have to have legs" issue, I don't agree. For the past eighteen years I've been hanging my big tom from my ride cymbal stand and everything's fine. Why should it wobble or shake? Mine doesn't. Okay, it's just a 13" x 13" so maybe that's why. Probably it's only good for smaller drums. If you're using an 18" floor tom I guess it might be dodgy.

The thing that's good about it is that my drums are always set up exactly the same way every time. I just hook them together and there you are. Both of my toms are suspended with iso-mounts and they both hang from my cymbal stands. I take them out of their cases, hook them up and I'm done.

Memory locks, one of the greatest inventions in drums ever!

My vote for the worst idea still goes to the drum frame.
Well Jay I'm pretty certain that a lot of drummers would tell you their experience of wobbling mounted floor toms. Even if it's not a big wobble they will still wobble as there is nothing cementing them to the ground directly other than the stand legs. Fair enough I believe that the way you have your cymbal stand set will affect it and you can probably eliminate most of the wobble but it will still never be as sturdy and rock solid as a stand alone floor tom.

Wow that really is a small floor tom too yeah I would say that is the reason. The more weight you add to a stand the more unstable it becomes It also comes down to how hard you hit. Because you're a jazz player you probably don't hit too hard as your music does not require it and therefore it won't bounce as much.

Now I do like the idea of mounted floor toms as you can position them closer to you without the feet getting in the way and they are usually a lot easier to pack as Polly stated.

If there was a really short version of a snare stand designed specifically for mounting mounted floor toms, now that may be worth a look.
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  #125  
Old 04-23-2010, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Now I do like the idea of mounted floor toms
Is a floor tom still a floor tom if it's not on the floor?

If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear what sound does it make?

Glasshopper, when you can answer these questions you will be ready, my son.

Still reeling from Bob's comment about his poor roto toms.
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  #126  
Old 04-23-2010, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Is a floor tom still a floor tom if it's not on the floor?

If a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody there to hear what sound does it make?

Glasshopper, when you can answer these questions you will be ready, my son.

Still reeling from Bob's comment about his poor roto toms.
Haha Poll is in philosophy mood. Yeah I actually said the exact same thing when I started posting about floor toms earlier in this thread.
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  #127  
Old 04-23-2010, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming



They also made BD and toms with tapered shells and two different sized heads.
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  #128  
Old 04-23-2010, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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They also made BD and toms with tapered shells and two different sized heads.


What's wrong with that bass drum? Is that a Salvador Dali painting?
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  #129  
Old 04-23-2010, 07:24 PM
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What's wrong with that bass drum? Is that a Salvador Dali painting?
OMG - I was thinking the exact same thing
somewhere between the "persistenc of memory" floppy clocks and "atmospheric skull sodomizing grand piano"
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  #130  
Old 04-23-2010, 08:25 PM
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Well Jay I'm pretty certain that a lot of drummers would tell you their experience of wobbling mounted floor toms. Even if it's not a big wobble they will still wobble as there is nothing cementing them to the ground directly other than the stand legs. Fair enough I believe that the way you have your cymbal stand set will affect it and you can probably eliminate most of the wobble but it will still never be as sturdy and rock solid as a stand alone floor tom.

Wow that really is a small floor tom too yeah I would say that is the reason. The more weight you add to a stand the more unstable it becomes It also comes down to how hard you hit. Because you're a jazz player you probably don't hit too hard as your music does not require it and therefore it won't bounce as much.

Now I do like the idea of mounted floor toms as you can position them closer to you without the feet getting in the way and they are usually a lot easier to pack as Polly stated.

If there was a really short version of a snare stand designed specifically for mounting mounted floor toms, now that may be worth a look.
My floor tom is 14 by 14, solid half-inch-thick ironwood and it is suspended with Gauger mounts. It weighs more than most bass drums so yes, it wobbles. My cymbals wobble a lot when I hit them, a lot more than my floor tom, and I managed to get used to it. Maybe some people can't stand their cymbals wobbling either. I am using DW 9000 hardware so there are no real concerns about failure. I also like having fewer points of contact on the floor.

I like my floor tom mounted high, as though it were a rack tom. I see no need to distinguish. Toms is toms. Plus as mentioned before, I like the exact positioning I get with the mounting hardware.
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  #131  
Old 04-23-2010, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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What's wrong with that bass drum? Is that a Salvador Dali painting?
There were two bass drum pedals, to take advantage of different tunings.

Trixon were far out drums and I would love to have a set. Those are highly collectible.
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  #132  
Old 04-23-2010, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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There were two bass drum pedals, to take advantage of different tunings.

Trixon were far out drums and I would love to have a set. Those are highly collectible.
I forgot about the side by side single bass pedals. So true. They are highly collectible and I was wondering if I should put them as a bad idea. I wonder how they sounded.

Although I love the guy, Neil Peart's playing butt-end of sticks come to mind. I admit, I played like that for a while, great response from the ride (sarcasm). I also write this to get a rise out of Michael Drums. He was noticibly absent from the last activity session at NP's thread.
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  #133  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Although I love the guy, Neil Peart's playing butt-end of sticks come to mind. I admit, I played like that for a while, great response from the ride (sarcasm).
Neil Peart wasn't the first or only drummer to play butt-ends as a matter of preference. I play butt-ends about half the time with 7As because I like having the weight out at the end of the stick and I think it helps with dynamic consistency - like timbale sticks.

You're right, though; you have to be careful with the ride cymbal because it can get out of hand in a hurry. You actually have to pick a ride cymbal with butt-end playing in mind (or just never leave the bell). I can play my 22" 2oo2 Ride anywhere from bell to edge of bow and keep it under control.

Not for everyone, but not high on my list of worst ideas. I think 18" and deeper bass drums are worse.
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  #134  
Old 04-23-2010, 11:55 PM
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Not for everyone, but not high on my list of worst ideas. I think 18" and deeper bass drums are worse.
Deep drum=deep sound.
Shallow drum=shallow sound.
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  #135  
Old 04-24-2010, 12:02 AM
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Deep drum=deep sound.
Shallow drum=shallow sound.
Yeah, I get that, and I was never a hater of deep toms (I actually like them except for their difficult placement), but I just had my 22x18 shortened by 4 inches a couple months ago and it's like a weight has been lifted. It's so much easier to hear it now.

If want a bigger sound, I'd rather go with a larger diameter than a longer tube. I think I might not like deep sounds on a kick.
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  #136  
Old 04-24-2010, 01:56 AM
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Neil Peart wasn't the first or only drummer to play butt-ends as a matter of preference. I play butt-ends about half the time with 7As because I like having the weight out at the end of the stick and I think it helps with dynamic consistency - like timbale sticks.

You're right, though; you have to be careful with the ride cymbal because it can get out of hand in a hurry. You actually have to pick a ride cymbal with butt-end playing in mind (or just never leave the bell). I can play my 22" 2oo2 Ride anywhere from bell to edge of bow and keep it under control.

Not for everyone, but not high on my list of worst ideas. I think 18" and deeper bass drums are worse.
In the 80s there were times when I had to use the butt end of 5Bs to get enough volume. I had a 22" 2oo2 ride as well, not for that purpose, just that I liked it. I still much prefer the stick tip sound but when the music is loud enough to warrant butt end playing it doesn't matter as much :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathmetalconga
My floor tom is 14 by 14, solid half-inch-thick ironwood and it is suspended with Gauger mounts. It weighs more than most bass drums so yes, it wobbles. My cymbals wobble a lot when I hit them, a lot more than my floor tom, and I managed to get used to it.
DMC, you know I love your kit but I agree with JT that a wobbling drum isn't ideal - in your words, it's something to get used to. Also, I find it impossible to imagine a musician as organised as you having fittings and stands that weren't high enough quality to cope with the drum's weight. And the cymbal analogy was a bit cheeky :)

I agree that the Trixons were cool things.
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  #137  
Old 04-24-2010, 02:16 AM
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how many millions are spent trying to create a better tom mount, but the poor bass drum - clamp a pedal on the wood hoop and drop it on the floor - we got to the moon, cant we think of a better way to attach the pedal to a bass drum???
There IS a better method, the Rogers Swivomatic (Buddy Rich's favorite) pedal and clamp, however no one has taken the idea to THIS century. so it remains a piece of history without interest to modern drumming.
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  #138  
Old 04-24-2010, 02:35 AM
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DMC, you know I love your kit but I agree with JT that a wobbling drum isn't ideal - in your words, it's something to get used to. Also, I find it impossible to imagine a musician as organised as you having fittings and stands that weren't high enough quality to cope with the drum's weight. And the cymbal analogy was a bit cheeky :)

I agree that the Trixons were cool things.
A drumset involves hitting things with sticks or your hands, sometimes hard. Wobble is part of it. All parts of the set wobble to some degree. If I played violin, any wobble above the microscopic level would be a problem. I have never, ever had a problem with cymbals or toms (rack or floor) wobbling, but they wobble within limits.

I just don't like a bunch of stands on the floor and I like faster setup and cleaner look of a suspended tom. If the compromise is a bit of wobble, that's not a problem, with me, at least. Having played both, I can say that suspending the floor tom provides many more mounting options and reduces creep. I also don't like boring holes in my drums and my bass drum doesn't even have spurs; it is suspended in a primitive way as well. Gauger has the Dyna-Mount which brings the benefits of suspension mounting to a traditional floor tom configuration.

Check out the mounting I have; the entire floor tom comes off of one DW 9000 ball arm holder. That is a very heavy-duty stand but these drums are mean-ass heavy.
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  #139  
Old 04-24-2010, 02:58 AM
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DMC, that's the thing ... "wobble within limits".

Your post prompted me to have another look at your kit. If I was the proud owner of a ravishing beauty drumkit like that I wouldn't care about wobbly bits either :)
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  #140  
Old 04-24-2010, 04:28 AM
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I've got DW Keller, 16" and 18" off a Pearl medium weight cymbal stand, and I generaly hit harder than your average WWE wrestler. Nay wobble troubles on my front, the microscopic amounts that they do (and i mean microscopic) I would say helps the shell resonance.

NAY WAY ARE HANGING TOMS THE WORST IDEA. (capitals over)
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  #141  
Old 04-24-2010, 05:13 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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If there was a really short version of a snare stand designed specifically for mounting mounted floor toms, now that may be worth a look.
More hardware to carry. Who wants that?
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  #142  
Old 04-26-2010, 05:53 AM
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Ahhh, the 6, 8, 10 rototom set! Those were really something! I would have bought a set of them back in my younger days, but I quickly realized that they just didn't blend well with real toms.

To wit: my impression of rotos "Binnnng, beeooom, beerooom". They were good for "Dark Side of the Moon" covers and for keeping the 6" head in existence.

That's not the worst, though. THAT prize goes to World's Fastest Drummer. What a pointless exercise in futility. It should be regarded as an athletic competition that happens to use drums. I think the world is starting to run out of ideas.
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  #143  
Old 04-26-2010, 06:08 AM
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My two cents: the difference between the wobble of a cymbal and a wobbling tom is like the difference between a vibrating guitar string and an entire vibrating guitar. If you clamp a cymbal in place, it doesn't make any noise. The drum head's vibrations are what makes noise, if the entire drum is moving it'd be like if your cymbal MOUNT moved around when you hit it.
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  #144  
Old 04-26-2010, 09:26 AM
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Both my gig and rehearsal kits have 14" mounted "floor" toms, one on a rack attached to the bottom end of the cymbal holder that my ride is on, the other mounted onto the ride cymbal tripod stand. Neither of them wobble any more than my rack toms, which is minimal. I don't understand why there's all the fuss about wobbling mounted floor toms but none about the rack toms. Is it only because there's no choice but for them to be suspended? And if you all have gotten used to that, then why is a slightly wobbling mounted floor tom such a big deal?
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  #145  
Old 04-26-2010, 09:50 AM
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My opinion is that if it isn't broken, why fix it? The floor toms we have now work fine, the sound isn't being improved by mounting them.

They also tend to be larger and heavier then rack toms so I understand where the extra wobble is coming from.
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  #146  
Old 04-26-2010, 11:42 AM
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Even though the Craigslist-worthy kits have slightly shallower toms, the cheapo mounting systems (that go through the shell of the drums) limit option of them being angled well...and well the Ironwood kit looks great, I don't hate squared tom kits, I just hate if they are uncomfortable.

Yes, definitely when you think of it WFD is a bunch of stupid male competition..up there with the worst of drumming "things"...although it interesting to know the speed drummers' approach to technique and how they musically apply it.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:45 PM
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Yep, the WFD concept is non musical but the abilities required to do it give the participants the technique a lot of freedom to play what they want to play when applied to musical settings. We have a number of WFDs on this forum and they're fine drummers.

This coming from someone who seriously dislikes competitiveness applied to the arts. Credit where credit's due.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:13 PM
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Do many of you guys use cymbal stands and bass drum mounts for your toms or do you use a rack?
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:29 PM
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The grand majority of 280-300+BPM blast metal.
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  #150  
Old 04-26-2010, 03:40 PM
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Both my gig and rehearsal kits have 14" mounted "floor" toms, one on a rack attached to the bottom end of the cymbal holder that my ride is on, the other mounted onto the ride cymbal tripod stand. Neither of them wobble any more than my rack toms, which is minimal. I don't understand why there's all the fuss about wobbling mounted floor toms but none about the rack toms. Is it only because there's no choice but for them to be suspended? And if you all have gotten used to that, then why is a slightly wobbling mounted floor tom such a big deal?
Looks bad, it's annoying? It's a big reason I put my mounted toms on a rack: they wobbled when I hit the kick before and it drove me bonkers.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:43 PM
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Looks bad, it's annoying? It's a big reason I put my mounted toms on a rack: they wobbled when I hit the kick before and it drove me bonkers.
Some kits will and others won't, I guess it just comes down to what kit you're playing, I've played a Tama kit with the toms mounted from the bass drum and their was only a healthy amount of give, you couldn't shift the toms with the sticks. I have also known the reverse
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:26 PM
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OOOH, cool thread. Off the top of my head- suspended floor toms. What the hell are those about!? I don't need 'em to ring that long, they bounce all over the place, I can't rest my sticks on them, and I need to attach them to a 70 pound cymbal stand so it doesn't tip over! Hate 'em, hate 'em, hate 'em.
Yep, I agree with that! I cannot stand those stupid things. I'm sure there are a lot of people that like all the stuff with no bits on it and want everything on it's own little stand but I can't believe those crazies! Man, when I'm lugging my crap around every single night and day to a different place to gig or rehearse I want it all as simple and light as possible. I want a tom to be just a tom with nothing extra on it. A stand to be just a simple, easy, light stand only solid enough to hold up my little cymbal, instead of some 200kg double braced, titanium plated, nuclear pulsed reinforced thing with nine arms on it.

I have this drummer friend who is right into the whole super drum thing. You know, every drum has it's own stand, they are all suspended from some thing to stop anything touching them and yet, my little kit which costs half of his insane DW, I can make sound ten times better with five minutes of tuning than his ever would. Even tuning his up, the sound difference is so minimal, and certainly not enough for the price difference and if they were the same price and mine still wasn't super mounted, it would sound as good. Pure gimmickry.

So, my beef is hardware. All the new heavy-duty rubbish that is included on drums now. You don't need double braced boom stands with weights on the end! Man, I have two tiny little Dixon stands that I got for about $40 (aus) each and they have lasted forever now without ever even moving slightly, tipping over or whatever. If I had to carry around a massive set of drums with huge heavy duty hardware bits and special tom mounts and suspending floor tom tings and all the rest, I would just give up. If I had to carry a bigger set than I do I would want it all lighter than even I have mine. But, I'm weird like that maybe.

I just can't wait to get rid of my Gibraltor bass pedal. It has this massive plate on the bottom, and all these little knobs and bits all over it, which is utterly pointless and weighs about nineteen tonnes. It's only a bass drum pedal! It doesn't need to knock down a building.

I wanna be out of the car, into the place with all my gear in no more two trips and set up within five minutes. Any longer is too long and any more trips is too many. I have a funny feeling I'm not nearly as obsessive about my stuff as most probably are. This is not a bad thing and not meant in a bad way at all. I just find myself bemused when people talk about marks where the bass drum pedal goes....I had never even thought about it until it was mentioned here. But then, I don't really care what it looks like or anything. As long as it's light and easy to take around and sounds great, it's all good.

Last edited by jazzin'; 04-26-2010 at 08:56 PM.
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  #153  
Old 04-27-2010, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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My two cents: the difference between the wobble of a cymbal and a wobbling tom is like the difference between a vibrating guitar string and an entire vibrating guitar. If you clamp a cymbal in place, it doesn't make any noise. The drum head's vibrations are what makes noise, if the entire drum is moving it'd be like if your cymbal MOUNT moved around when you hit it.
I don't understand the difference. Cymbals wobble much more than drums, yet if a cymbal wobbles that's okay, but if a drum wobbles, it's not. Go figure.

I don't play the guitar so I don't understand the analogy. Maybe if I played the guitar I wouldn't want a wobbly drum???
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  #154  
Old 04-27-2010, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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That's not the worst, though. THAT prize goes to World's Fastest Drummer. What a pointless exercise in futility. It should be regarded as an athletic competition that happens to use drums. I think the world is starting to run out of ideas.
And we have a winner folks......

And thanks to WFD, early every drum video on youtube is full of lame comments "oh, so-and-so can play that faster", without any regard to if said drummer was actually trying to play fast or not.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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I just can't wait to get rid of my Gibraltor bass pedal. It has this massive plate on the bottom, and all these little knobs and bits all over it, which is utterly pointless and weighs about nineteen tonnes. It's only a bass drum pedal! It doesn't need to knock down a building.
What type? Any pictures? I don't want to buy it but I want to see how it is.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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And we have a winner folks......

And thanks to WFD, early every drum video on youtube is full of lame comments "oh, so-and-so can play that faster", without any regard to if said drummer was actually trying to play fast or not.
I actually know Australia's fastest feet, he admits it's more of an athletic thing, it's like having shred guitar competitions, it's not pointless, it's just not musical but that isn't what it's about, it's about taking a skill (playing a drum) to the extremes to find the best of the best. It's macho if anything but no worse then weight lifting at the olympics.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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And we have a winner folks......

And thanks to WFD, early every drum video on youtube is full of lame comments "oh, so-and-so can play that faster", without any regard to if said drummer was actually trying to play fast or not.
The WFD didn't cause that, it's a manifestation of the problem. You think without the contest people wouldn't still be linking to Inferno/Hoglan/Kollias/Marco videos to compete over speed?
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

The usage of the words: overrated, versus (vs), underrated, undervalue.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

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Looks bad, it's annoying? It's a big reason I put my mounted toms on a rack: they wobbled when I hit the kick before and it drove me bonkers.
All 3 of my toms are mounted on a rack; the "floor" doesn't wobble any more than the rack toms. Maybe I just have good hardware...? Check out my setup. It looks like the cymbal holder that my 14" tom is attached to is resting on my Iron Cobra case, but it's not. I keep the pedal case there to put drinks on it. The cymbal holder isn't even hovering over it- it's actually closer to the camera than the pedal case. The camera angle makes it look odd.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Worst idea in Drumming

Seriously, all of you people complaining about the mounted floor tom, go play one that is mounted well! Again, mine sits on a light-weight stand, and I have no issue with it at all. I rest all sorts of things on it while playing musicals, and it never bounces...

...also to say that something like that, or WFD is one of the WORST ideas in drumming, compared to Drumming Shoes or light-up sticks that break the first time you use them is a bit of a joke...
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