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  #1  
Old 01-19-2010, 09:16 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default The development of taste

...

Since I was born long ago ( back when men were men and the sheep were nervous ), I've seen my musical and indeed drumming tastes change/grow/evolve from Don Brewer of Grand Funk Railroad via Cobham to Jack De Johnette to Paul Motian ( for example ). Not that I dont like Don anymore but you know what I mean..

I think I share this trait with a lot of others as well. People who's tastes mature over time but the stuff they grow up on and explore along the way also finds a warm & fuzzy place in their heart.

But I also meet people who still love, surprisingly with the same intensity, the same things they did when they were 16, and reject everything else they were exposed to post the wonders years. This is coming from a recent experience where I shared a bill with a 45 year old rock drummer for whom Ian Paice and classic rock is where that road dead ended long time ago. Everything else was a poor imitation..

Got me thinking... what makes that happen? guess we're all different in more ways than we expect.

...

Last edited by aydee; 01-19-2010 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing. I'm 29, and quite a few of my friends seem to be stuck with the exact bands (and sometimes even albums) they listened to in their teens: Others have kept discovering new music, but generally prefer to keep themselves within the same general style (e.g. rock, pop, rap, etc), while a few have completely changed their taste in music, and now listen to completely different stuff compared to their younger selves.

I find myself in the second category, keeping my tastes within the same general area, and I don't imagine I'll ever turn away from being a rock guy. I find enjoyment in many genres and styles, but my heart has always been in rock and hard rock. My tastes have definitely matured though (for lack of a better word; I'm not implying that the music I used to listen to is inferior in any way). When I was in my teens, I mostly listened to aggressive hard rock and metal (as teens tend to do). I then found moderns progressive music, with bands like Dream Theater, Symphony X and Spock's Beard in my early twenties, and listened to little else for a couple of years. Beyond that, I started to get a deep appreciation for the deep grooves of more straight rock and hard rock, and my favourite bands and drummers these days definitely reflect that.

Like you said though, the love for those old favourites never goes away, and I still discover and enjoy artists in genres and styles that I don't listen to all that much any more.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

Rather like travelling I think. The difference in perception is moulded by exposure, sometimes at a subliminal level. We've all met guys who've never moved away from the area of their upbringing. They're fiercely patriotic, overly defensive and usually fail to take an wholistic view. In stark contrast, those who've travelled extensively tend to take on a wider perspective, be more inclusive and open to seeing the weaknesses of their place of origin. Those who travel tend also to see through the stereo typical image of something "foreign" and form their own opinion based on what they see & feel. They see beauty in what is often maligned by popular opinion.

I can only hypothesize that those who passionately embrace the music genre of their youth at the exclusion of other genres have suffered from a lack of journey. I fully understand any player gravitating towards the genre that sits in their comfort zone. I'm a rock player to the core, but have not only an appreciation, but a deep respect for many forms of music. Just because I can't play it, doesn't mean I don't like it. I've lost count of how many times I've been dragged to a gig I believed I would hate, only to find I've had an eye opening experience.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:55 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

Your views (about the whole world) are shaped by what you experience...after experiencing a new musical experience it is up to whether you like/appreciate/understand the experience if you will develop your taste from that experience...

...so, if someone wants to develop their taste, keep an open mind and be willing to listen to something very different from what you have already listened to.
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2010, 10:00 AM
wy yung
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Default Re: The development of taste

I have known many people who have remained stuck in the past. I think this is why Wolfmother has an audience in 2010????

I hate it and only want to move forward. I do not own a single album I listened to 10 years ago. I suppose some people are of a mindset that is ever onward, while others are ever backward.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

Human beings remember songs, but not only songs, we remember the emotional state we were in when we heard the song for the first time, or most of the times we listened to it. That goes with playing drums too btw, so you should try to play in most emotional states.

If we realize that this topic becomes much more simpler. Some people have great deal of nostalgia, and not without reason! They had great stuff happening and they listened to great songs. Of course they want to visit those feelings once again now that they are older. The songs are like a family album but without the pictures. Some of us don't have such warm memories and the meaning of the memories also change. The song I heard on the day I went to first meet my first girlfriend, it was a special song for a long time, now it has this bitter color all over it.

Maybe it's just me, but this is how I understand listening to music after the first time I have heard a song. But like Wy, I always move on, try to find more pictures to attach emotions to. Life goes on, so does music.

But then again, of course there are just plain bad songs. But even they may get really good if the context is right, like a great night with friends having fun and then laughing our ass off to some lame song we heard. The song can then form in to a classic. =P
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:30 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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The songs are like a family album but without the pictures.
Great line & perception.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

On more thing on the subject. How does one choose what to listen to next. I for example see different genres as a huge map. There are certain roads inside the genres where I can easily take a train or a buss from band to band. Some times I don't anymore get anything new about a certain little genre and I have to take a plane to something completely different. But the thing with planes is that you might end up with a nasty surprise too. You might know nothing about your destination, the plane might crash during the flight. =P But that's exactly the excitement of it all.

For example more classic jazz. I tried to use the roads from prog to fusion but that didn't get me close enough, so eventually I just had to take the plain and jump right in to it. Couple of weeks it was just weird, I didn't understand what is happening, which is day and which is night, where do I get my luch, where do I sleep. Then it all started to look clearer after a while. =)

Yeah, I like the traveling analog.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

JPW, first of all, sorry to get on your case last week. Unjustified! I had a couple and was just beligerent. No excuse. I am sorry.

You had trouble with fusion and older jazz? My friend always follow the Miles Davis method. Listen to his early albums, then to the people who played with him and then them and eventually you will discover the entire world of jazz! :-)

But you're already there so just remember the method for others. ;-)

How does one choose where to go? I believe the music made the choices for me. I used the MDM for other styles and people and it just worked. I listen to really different stuff to what I did just 5 years ago. Find out who were the groundbreakers in any style, listen to those they worked with and there you have it.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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Originally Posted by JPW View Post
On more thing on the subject. How does one choose what to listen to next. I for example see different genres as a huge map. There are certain roads inside the genres where I can easily take a train or a buss from band to band. Some times I don't anymore get anything new about a certain little genre and I have to take a plane to something completely different. But the thing with planes is that you might end up with a nasty surprise too. You might know nothing about your destination, the plane might crash during the flight. =P But that's exactly the excitement of it all.
I tend to follow musicians (often drummers) when discovering new bands or styles. I might discover a drummer after a performance on YouTube or a performance on a drum festival, and then go and listen to bands he's played with. Another way is that I find that a musician in a band I already listen to has played with other bands in the past. This will usually trigger a big search for music by those bands, which again might bring up new musicians who have played in other bands, etc. These trips will often transcend genres and styles, but since I'm holding on to that common link (the musician I'm following at the time), I often find these other bands enjoyable regardless.

I also find that I usually find my first meeting with a new band or style more enjoyable if I watch them play live (either in person or a recorded performance), so if I hear about a band and I want to check them out, I often seek out a live performance on YouTube if I can.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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JPW, first of all, sorry to get on your case last week. Unjustified! I had a couple and was just beligerent. No excuse. I am sorry.
No worries, I'm used to it on the internet. =) And it got me thinking too which is never a bad thing.

To find new bands to listen to last.fm is a great site to do it. Have gotten some great finds there. Lately drummerworld of course has been a great source of new bands (to me) with great drummers.
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:46 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: The development of taste

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
I can only hypothesize that those who passionately embrace the music genre of their youth at the exclusion of other genres have suffered from a lack of journey. .
I agree, Andy.
Tao did say " dont tell me how much you have studied, tell me where all you have travelled", and I get that. But what about simply the natural evolution of your taste buds. From Candyfloss to Spinach or hotdogs to anchovies..? That does happen without traveling, right?

....
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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I shared a bill with a 45 year old rock drummer for whom Ian Paice and classic rock is where that road dead ended long time ago. Everything else was a poor imitation.... what makes that happen?
It sounds tribal to me. I wonder if he still hangs around with his old buds from the old days?

Or ... perhaps he's had a youthful epiphany that he found was effective in keeping his demons at bay and ended up being really Zen about his music, quickly deciding on the limitations that define his focus (ie. Ian P) and moving full steam ahead without even a hint of a doubt entering his mind?

A life without doubts, embarrassment or hesitation - it must be amazing ... in a "give me a bucket" kinda way. There were a few national leaders in a noughties of that ilk and their modus operandi seemed highly successful for them, even if at the expense of many,

Then there's the other kind of person who is more sensitive and vulnerable - without the hard shell - and they have enough doubts to have some kind of mid-life crisis or at least midlife epiphany and start doing what THEY want, not what the world wants from them. They open up and let themselves grow. That happens when one's comfort zone stops being comfortable.

Musically, that means that you grow tired of listening to Ian Paice on a loop and want to hear other drumming voices. Maybe it depends on how old you were when you had your big epiphany?


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We've all met guys who've never moved away from the area of their upbringing. They're fiercely patriotic, overly defensive and usually fail to take an wholistic view. In stark contrast, those who've travelled extensively tend to take on a wider perspective, be more inclusive and open to seeing the weaknesses of their place of origin.
I wonder if that's a guy thing?

I've hardly travelled at all and the best I managed was moving from the salubrious and leafy north shore to the grimy, urban and cosmopolitan inner west - a much better place for old hippies to live :) Yet I'm not patriotic, I'm pretty open and I seek out (and sometimes find) holistic views. So I enjoy music of all sorts of genres, although I admit a bias to old favourites.

Just got back from seeing Le Carnaval Spirituel in a hall just a walk away - an extravaganza of Indian and middle Asian drums, music and dance. Fabulous and inspiring - you'd never see that on Sydney's leafy north shore!

Didn't John Lennon say something to the effect that the further you travel the more you stay in the same place? That's probably too harsh. It's more that there are different ways of travelling.
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  #14  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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I agree, Andy.
Tao did say " dont tell me how much you have studied, tell me where all you have travelled", and I get that. But what about simply the natural evolution of your taste buds. From Candyfloss to Spinach or hotdogs to anchovies..? That does happen without traveling, right?

....
Hmmm, valid point, that said, there are those who will never like anchovies, spinach, etc because they're not prepared to try them. I think willingness to widen your perspective and welcome experiences is a key component here. Ok, to be pedantic, food taste evolution does have some basis in science. Chemical process changes through youth to adulthood is quite well documented, but I get your analogy.

I also believe context has much to do with appreciation. JPW touched on that, & it's a powerful enjoyment filter. How you feel at the moment of first exposure to a new band, song, whatever dictates whether it's stored under "enjoy", "admire", "oh shit", etc depending on strength of association. After many years of scaring sheep, you tend to look back on a certain piece of music out of context therefore the flaws are laid bare. On the other hand, a powerful association may take you straight back to the moment and your impression of that track is the same as the first imprinted experience.

I'm maybe half way to an answer. I'll have to think some more.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:07 PM
JPW JPW is offline
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Default Re: The development of taste

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Hmmm, valid point, that said, there are those who will never like anchovies, spinach, etc because they're not prepared to try them. I think willingness to widen your perspective and welcome experiences is a key component here. Ok, to be pedantic, food taste evolution does have some basis in science. Chemical process changes through youth to adulthood is quite well documented, but I get your analogy.

I also believe context has much to do with appreciation. JPW touched on that, & it's a powerful enjoyment filter. How you feel at the moment of first exposure to a new band, song, whatever dictates whether it's stored under "enjoy", "admire", "oh shit", etc depending on strength of association. After many years of scaring sheep, you tend to look back on a certain piece of music out of context therefore the flaws are laid bare. On the other hand, a powerful association may take you straight back to the moment and your impression of that track is the same as the first imprinted experience.

I'm maybe half way to an answer. I'll have to think some more.
Yes, to give a personal negative example, I haven't really gotten in to rap music ever. To me it seems too monotonous and musically/emotionally hollow. But then again in light of this discussion I have to say maybe it isn't the true reason, it's just selfdeception to feel better about myself. The truth is that I really haven't ever heard any rap song in a positive environment in a positive mindset. Mostly because of my family and friends who don't listen to it so there never was a change to be exposed to it. And now at this age I still don't have the motivation or reason to give it even a slightest a try. I had this one time about a month ago where I almost found a decent rapper but after I got his CD I must say I was again dissapointed and still didn't get any emotions out of it or attach any emotion to it.

I really can see how the same can happen with jazz for example with most people. But my family and friends have been into jazz all my life so it wasn't such a terrible struggle to be able to start enjoy it.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

I like the traveling analogy, but it isn't so much the physical traveling that needs to happen. It's deeper than that. Pollyanna hasn't moved around much and she gets it. I've traveled quite a bit while in the Navy and touring with a band and have seen people from both situations not get it - where you can almost see the brain doors slamming shut.

The mind is only receptive to so much new stuff, and to what degree varies a lot from person to person. Some people are more inquisitive or curious, while others like to stay in their comfort zones more.

The physical traveling is nurture. The 'other' traveling is nature (or both?).
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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We've all met guys who've never moved away from the area of their upbringing. They're fiercely patriotic, overly defensive and usually fail to take an wholistic view.
Or is it the case that these types like to stay at home because there they feel safe?
Quote:
In stark contrast, those who've travelled extensively tend to take on a wider perspective, be more inclusive and open to seeing the weaknesses of their place of origin. Those who travel tend also to see through the stereo typical image of something "foreign" and form their own opinion based on what they see & feel. They see beauty in what is often maligned by popular opinion.
And these types are just drawn to travel for the experience and novelty?

I've noticed this phenomenon, too, but it can get circular. I don't know if you can draw any conclusions from it.

Great post, by the way.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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I haven't really gotten in to rap music ever. To me it seems too monotonous and musically/emotionally hollow.
Not a huge rap fan myself, but a few years ago I was really into Eminem. I've actually thought that he'd have made a really great drummer with his over-the-bar-line phrases all over the place. I put on "The Eminem Show" and drum along to his vocals. He's really good - if you can get past 90% of the subject matter.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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I haven't really gotten in to rap music ever. To me it seems too monotonous and musically/emotionally hollow. ... I really haven't ever heard any rap song in a positive environment in a positive mindset. ... And now at this age I still don't have the motivation or reason to give it even a slightest a try. I had this one time about a month ago where I almost found a decent rapper but after I got his CD I must say I was again dissapointed and still didn't get any emotions out of it or attach any emotion to it.

I really can see how the same can happen with jazz for example with most people. But my family and friends have been into jazz all my life so it wasn't such a terrible struggle to be able to start enjoy it.
It depends, doesn't it? I thought that Grandmaster Flash's The Message in the 80s was outstanding. What about songs with rap influence - the Chilli Peppers, RATM, even Blondie's Rapture? I like Eminem's "Loose Yourself". Perhaps like any good white person we want raw new black music to be distilled through white sensibilities? :)

Personally, I struggle with most rap because 1) I can rarely make out the words, 2) when I do it's usually misogynist, homophobic or even downright misanthropic and 3) there's not much musically going on. From there, you'll probably see why I mentioned those acts in the previous paragraph.

In most rap I can appreciate the skill required to remember all those words and to spit them out rhythmically without stumbling but it doesn't float my boat any more than machine gun metal or very bland middle-of-the-road. Same with the drum solo "debate". The skills required for any of these genres are obvious, just that they don't touch me.

Nicely put, Mike - brain doors slamming shut. It would be a good name for a band too :)
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

So funny, I remember doing rap gigs way back in the 80's with groups such as Mighty big crime. It was fun because I got to play funk. Not easy to play funk in Australia in the 80's!
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

My tastes have changed, but I never get tired of the old stuff either.

I still get as much pleasure listening to an old Rush album or an early U2 album now as I did when I was a teen. From Pink Floyd and The Who to Triumph and Aldo Nova, I have the past well represented, and I still listen to it all.

But my CD collection is constantly growing and expanding.

A few years back, I added Linkin Park (and yes, I'm way to old for them).
I'm always looking for well made obscure darkwave bands, (Tear Wave anyone?)

Lately, I have been exploring and buying albums from European metal bands like Dead Soul Tribe, Katatonia, Within Temptation, Leave's Eye, Before the Dawn, and such.

I can't imagine just staying put and just listening to the same thing over and over again. I need a constant flow of new inspiration. But at the same time, I can't toss aside a great album just because it's old.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: The development of taste

I'll listen to anything that doesn't need a video to gain interest......if my ears like it, thats good enough.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

I'm still a pretty young dude, 15, and my taste grows and develops all the time. It's not that I'm becoming more narrow-minded, but the very opposite! I discover new bands within a matter of weeks and I ingest as much as I can! I've always thought that a maturing taste in music is healthy for any musician. I mean what good is it to like the same kind of music and bands for ten years?
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: The development of taste

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I'm still a pretty young dude, 15, and my taste grows and develops all the time. It's not that I'm becoming more narrow-minded, but the very opposite! I discover new bands within a matter of weeks and I ingest as much as I can! I've always thought that a maturing taste in music is healthy for any musician. I mean what good is it to like the same kind of music and bands for ten years?

Sounds like you have a great perspective. If you're hoping to become a working drummer, listen to, practice and master as many musical styles as you can. You're right; its very healthy and will make you much more well-rounded musician. As a drummer, its easy to slip into different situations, if you have a wide musical base and can authentically cop many styles.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:25 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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listen to, practice and master as many musical styles as you can. You're right; its very healthy and will make you much more well-rounded musician. As a drummer, its easy to slip into different situations, if you have a wide musical base and can authentically cop many styles.
well said.. and often these different styles come together in your playing that makes your playing very uniquely yours.

as someone dead & famous said " dont be a second rate tony williams/bonham/peart/weckl/colauita.

be a first rate you.


....
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:49 AM
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well said.. and often these different styles come together in your playing that makes your playing very uniquely yours.

as someone dead & famous said " dont be a second rate tony williams/bonham/peart/weckl/colauita.

be a first rate you.
Of course, you're right. Even in my case where a very limited palate of styles converge to create a sound that's uniquely the same as everyone else's!
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:07 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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LOL! Andy, not you, but that happens too, I suppose. Cookie cutter drummers - They've all cranked out the same exercises, worked the same books, liked the same drummers and sometimes sound very uniquely, like everyone else : ).. Its a copycat mindset, I think..


Fingerprints, snowflakes, thats what we're looking for..
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