DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:16 AM
blade123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default I offer a challenge to the forum

Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:23 AM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,253
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
I don't think it's possible but I haven't given it a lot of thought. Do you think it's possible?

Rudiments evolved from the European battlefield use for drums to call out instructions but people have been playing drums for tens of thousands of years and the Western-style rudiments in some fashion for maybe a few hundred years. Paradiddles show up in African drumming and double-stroke rolls are the foundation for lots of African and Afro-Cuban music.

The real question to me is, are any of the rudiments original inventions, or are they just adapted from something else?
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-20-2008, 08:53 AM
oops's Avatar
oops oops is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 579
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Technically I guess you're right. By the mere fact that double strokes and single strokes are both rudiments, you cannot possible make any combination of notes without either of these, hence all drumming is rudimental by nature.

But I think the term rudimental conjures up a different mental image entirely: if you told me to play some thing 'rudimentally' or to involve rudiments in my playing I would be aiming for a certain feel: a tight, crisp regimented feel, rather than a Roy Haynes feel. (not saying that Roy Haynes' feel is at all neither tight or crisp, merely that you can see a vast difference in the way Roy and say, Steve Gadd play).

Re: Deathmetalconga.

I was under the impression that the modern rudiments were a method of standardizing all the different drummer's patterns, so that any drummer could play with any army and everyone would understand what was meant. So I'd say they're neither original inventions or adaptations, but merely standardizations or collections.

Am I rambling?
__________________
Wishing I was Stanton Moore...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-20-2008, 09:24 AM
The Colonel's Avatar
The Colonel The Colonel is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 504
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

This is very easy. You're not thinking outside the box.

After I get my gallery open and we have cameras/recording equipment/good-sounding-rooms I will submit my entry. Until then, I hope others put forth a musical effort.


Seriously - stop thinking like a drummer and play your instruments.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-20-2008, 09:32 AM
Latin Groover's Avatar
Latin Groover Latin Groover is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 900
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
This is very easy. You're not thinking outside the box.

After I get my gallery open and we have cameras/recording equipment/good-sounding-rooms I will submit my entry. Until then, I hope others put forth a musical effort.


Seriously - stop thinking like a drummer and play your instruments.
I agree i can think of a few ways i could record and you would think I was playing a drum, but that may be cheating.

or

Name this rudiment rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....direct me to a publication which has that as a rudiment..

or

Quote:
Seriously - stop thinking like a drummer and play your instruments.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-20-2008, 01:48 PM
jonescrusher's Avatar
jonescrusher jonescrusher is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Yes, as LG and others suggest, the cymbal ostinato rrrrrrrrr etc. would be hard to pin down. A moot point at best.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-20-2008, 02:14 PM
PQleyR's Avatar
PQleyR PQleyR is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Godalming, UK
Posts: 2,372
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Yeah. Quick, someone think of a name for it. Then you'll WIN!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-20-2008, 03:38 PM
Wavelength's Avatar
Wavelength Wavelength is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,082
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Drums: tacet
__________________
I play Kumu Drums. I also shoot videos.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-20-2008, 04:09 PM
PQleyR's Avatar
PQleyR PQleyR is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Godalming, UK
Posts: 2,372
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

No, that has a name, therefore it MUST be a rudiment.
Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2008, 04:25 PM
mattsmith
This message has been deleted by mattsmith.
  #10  
Old 11-20-2008, 05:29 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 9,127
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
It's a bit of trick proposition, isn't it. You could probably identify any grouping of notes as a rudiment (ie; a quick RL could be interpreted as a portion of a single stroke roll, or you could call a slightly non-precise kick-cymbal hit a flam.)

If your guideline is the written notation of rudiments as played on one drum - example: a single stroke roll must be at least RLRL, a triplet is indeed RLR, but RL is fair game as long as not played in quick enough succession to be a flam - then it's perfectly easy to contruct a drum part or a whole song without specific rudiments, and with fills.

Part of the conundrum seems to be that drum parts are necessarily complicated, and therefore must contain rudiments, intentional or otherwise. I suppose those kind of parts do. But overlooked is the fact that the vast majority of drum parts are pretty straight ahead. While they undoubtedly also contain rudiments, probably at least a single stroke roll in the form of a fill, it would be no problem to simply those fills and play a perfectly correct part without a rudiment. You also have to accept that a fill is not necessarily a full measure (although now that I think about it, if you want fills to last a full measure, that's no problem either!)

But if you stretch the concept - a lot - and suggest that, regardless of tempo, any sticking of RL or LR constitutes a flam... or that RL on the snare going into a right hand crash constitutes a triplet (RLR)... or that 2 kicks and a snare constitute a drag... I suppose you could pretend those are rudiments, even though playing those parts could never be interpreted that way by anyone who's expecting to hear rudiments. It wouldn't hold up in a court of law, either.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-20-2008, 05:37 PM
mind_drummer's Avatar
mind_drummer mind_drummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,410
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
Rick Allen of Def Leppard cant obviously use rudiment with his hands and he plays that damn kit :P
__________________
TAMA - DW - AQUARIAN - SABIAN - ZILDJIAN - ISTANBUL MEHMET - VATER

My Kit Latest Update
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-20-2008, 05:40 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,368
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Its been a while but I'm guessing if I play R L R L R L on the one and three of a 4/4 time signature that it would not be construed as a rudiment. To my thinking rudiments are a bit more complex than that. Tell me the wind up monkey beating L R on the metal toy drum is playing rudiments???? If we stick with the basic 40 now perscribed I don't think R L R L was listed as one of those.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-20-2008, 05:54 PM
Vipercussionist's Avatar
Vipercussionist Vipercussionist is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rhode Island (USA)
Posts: 742
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by mind_drummer View Post
Rick Allen of Def Leppard cant obviously use rudiment with his hands and he plays that damn kit :P
Of course he can play a single handed roll, probably quite good at this point!! No??


Lessee, a musical piece with no tie to rudiments . . .

ONE single hit to a snare drum. I wrote it AND copyrighted it, so don't try to STEAL it!!

Not being part of a pattern, it can't be part of a rudiment which by definition is a pattern of more than one note. AMIRITE???
.
.
.

__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
__________________
Things to share
Thanks are implied
You are welcome
Listen To BONHAM here!!
ViperFace
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-20-2008, 06:01 PM
mind_drummer's Avatar
mind_drummer mind_drummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,410
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipercussionist View Post
Of course he can play a single handed roll, probably quite good at this point!! No??

__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
The question is: Is the single handed roll is a rudiment ? From the P.A.S. rudiments sheet, single handed isn't a rudiment "yet".

Hey, thinking of it if we stroke all of our four limb at the same time on the kit, is this a rudiment ???
__________________
TAMA - DW - AQUARIAN - SABIAN - ZILDJIAN - ISTANBUL MEHMET - VATER

My Kit Latest Update
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:09 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 9,127
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by mind_drummer View Post
The question is: Is the single handed roll is a rudiment ?
Not at the moment. Rudiments are based on specific left and right hand sticking (along with accents therein.) So it is currently not possible to play a correct rudiment with one hand.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-20-2008, 07:48 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,368
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Triplets. Right hand tom, left hand snare, right foot bass. No rudiment there.
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-20-2008, 10:25 PM
king fail's Avatar
king fail king fail is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Leicester, England
Posts: 353
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments
Quote:
Triplets. Right hand tom, left hand snare, right foot bass. No rudiment there.
This is probably a stupid suggestion, my apologies in advance. But the strokes preceding the right foot bass could be perceived as a single stroke roll could they not? R L ........
__________________
-If Tony Williams played on the bottom of shoes, we would all get a pair and hope for the best!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-20-2008, 10:29 PM
mind_drummer's Avatar
mind_drummer mind_drummer is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,410
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Triplets. Right hand tom, left hand snare, right foot bass. No rudiment there.
But it's actually based on a rudiment which is triplet. I think the OP wanted to point out there's no possibility of playing drum if any kind of rudiment form isn't involved.
__________________
TAMA - DW - AQUARIAN - SABIAN - ZILDJIAN - ISTANBUL MEHMET - VATER

My Kit Latest Update
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-20-2008, 10:35 PM
The Parasprinter's Avatar
The Parasprinter The Parasprinter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 82
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
"you can't play something that's not a rudiment".
Yes you can. I've had some high school students who could play things that weren't even notes. :-)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-20-2008, 10:36 PM
Disco Stu's Avatar
Disco Stu Disco Stu is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boogie Wonderland
Posts: 446
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

How about brush strokes...dragging the brush on the snare head?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-20-2008, 10:46 PM
drumguyfromWI's Avatar
drumguyfromWI drumguyfromWI is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 288
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

bleh. I wish people would stop worrying about rudiments and just PLAY. music is already classified enough without classifying the notes themselves... often people forget that music is supposed to be fun, not science!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-20-2008, 11:46 PM
TheGroceryman TheGroceryman is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Posts: 641
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

buzz roll anyone? buzz roll has no set number of strokes that each hand has to play, you just gotta buzz the snare. pretty vague and im pretty sure it doesnt involve any of the 40 rudiments. not doubles, not singles, not triples, their just buzzes!
__________________
"Defeat is crowned by Success, Only if you Persist."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-21-2008, 12:01 AM
jangus's Avatar
jangus jangus is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Holly, MI USA
Posts: 644
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Ok. It was quite a challenge, but I conquered it. This took me hours.

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-21-2008, 12:45 AM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,368
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by mind_drummer View Post
But it's actually based on a rudiment which is triplet. I think the OP wanted to point out there's no possibility of playing drum if any kind of rudiment form isn't involved.
Here are the 40 rudiments from the Percussive Arts Society.

I see no Triplet listed as a rudiment!!!!!
Attached Images
  
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-21-2008, 12:52 AM
brittc89's Avatar
brittc89 brittc89 is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,489
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Triplets. Right hand tom, left hand snare, right foot bass. No rudiment there.
Wow, Im sorry, that is just incredibly dumb. Im not sure if you are kidding, but that is just 3 single strokes.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-21-2008, 12:53 AM
brittc89's Avatar
brittc89 brittc89 is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,489
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Here are the 40 rudiments from the Percussive Arts Society.

I see no Triplet listed as a rudiment!!!!!
Youre right, the triplet is not a rudiment. Neither is the 16th note or the quarter note. Think people.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-21-2008, 02:12 AM
blade123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latin Groover View Post

Name this rudiment rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....direct me to a publication which has that as a rudiment..
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr is a single stroke roll with the lefts being played as rests.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Triplets. Right hand tom, left hand snare, right foot bass. No rudiment there.
Again, single stroke roll with three hits.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
It's a bit of trick proposition, isn't it. You could probably identify any grouping of notes as a rudiment (ie; a quick RL could be interpreted as a portion of a single stroke roll, or you could call a slightly non-precise kick-cymbal hit a flam.)

If your guideline is the written notation of rudiments as played on one drum - example: a single stroke roll must be at least RLRL, a triplet is indeed RLR, but RL is fair game as long as not played in quick enough succession to be a flam - then it's perfectly easy to contruct a drum part or a whole song without specific rudiments, and with fills.

Part of the conundrum seems to be that drum parts are necessarily complicated, and therefore must contain rudiments, intentional or otherwise. I suppose those kind of parts do. But overlooked is the fact that the vast majority of drum parts are pretty straight ahead. While they undoubtedly also contain rudiments, probably at least a single stroke roll in the form of a fill, it would be no problem to simply those fills and play a perfectly correct part without a rudiment. You also have to accept that a fill is not necessarily a full measure (although now that I think about it, if you want fills to last a full measure, that's no problem either!)

But if you stretch the concept - a lot - and suggest that, regardless of tempo, any sticking of RL or LR constitutes a flam... or that RL on the snare going into a right hand crash constitutes a triplet (RLR)... or that 2 kicks and a snare constitute a drag... I suppose you could pretend those are rudiments, even though playing those parts could never be interpreted that way by anyone who's expecting to hear rudiments. It wouldn't hold up in a court of law, either.

Bermuda
It *IS* a trick proposition.
Seeing that singles, doubles, triples, and buzzes are all rudiments.
You can't play a drum without using one of those strokes.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-21-2008, 02:13 AM
blade123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jangus View Post
Ok. It was quite a challenge, but I conquered it. This took me hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
.................................................. ..........
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-21-2008, 02:14 AM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 22,368
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

I'm sorry but where in that list do you see singles as a rudiment.?
__________________
Johnny. Pictured left to right, Bermuda, Weird Al, Grunt.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-21-2008, 03:12 AM
jonescrusher's Avatar
jonescrusher jonescrusher is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr is a single stroke roll with the lefts being played as rests.



Now that is a stretch of the imagination.
Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2008, 03:14 AM
Tuxido
This message has been deleted by Tuxido.
  #31  
Old 11-21-2008, 04:25 AM
blade123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I'm sorry but where in that list do you see singles as a rudiment.?
The first one, a single stroke roll.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-21-2008, 04:26 AM
blade123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
Now that is a stretch of the imagination.
How so? Play a single stroke roll, now take your left hand out. You get rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-21-2008, 04:49 AM
stasz's Avatar
stasz stasz is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois, US
Posts: 2,183
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

I'm sorry but are you trying to prove a point? The way I see it and you must understand this I'm sure: rudiments are just arbitrary organizations of some things we play. There isn't any big secret as far as I'm concerned. You don't need to worry about if you're playing a rudiment or not. Do you want to impress other dudes because you "play rudimentally" or something? Play the drums. Please stop trying to ask some unanswerable mystery question of life, which this question is not.
__________________
"If you think you're more important than the drums, you've got another thing coming." -Tony Williams
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-21-2008, 04:55 AM
Deathmetalconga's Avatar
Deathmetalconga Deathmetalconga is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 7,253
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by youenjoy00myself View Post
I'm sorry but are you trying to prove a point? The way I see it and you must understand this I'm sure: rudiments are just arbitrary organizations of some things we play. There isn't any big secret as far as I'm concerned. You don't need to worry about if you're playing a rudiment or not. Do you want to impress other dudes because you "play rudimentally" or something? Play the drums. Please stop trying to ask some unanswerable mystery question of life, which this question is not.
It's a perfectly legitimate question from blade123, one that might force some people to approach playing in a different way, however briefly.

In theory, we should all be playing instead of posting here and suggesting people should not ask this or that. You are free to not respond to anything you see here.
__________________
Ironwood kit Tiki kit Openhanders Vids
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:04 AM
blade123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by youenjoy00myself View Post
I'm sorry but are you trying to prove a point? The way I see it and you must understand this I'm sure: rudiments are just arbitrary organizations of some things we play. There isn't any big secret as far as I'm concerned. You don't need to worry about if you're playing a rudiment or not. Do you want to impress other dudes because you "play rudimentally" or something? Play the drums. Please stop trying to ask some unanswerable mystery question of life, which this question is not.
A lot of people don't understand rudiments IMO. Rudiments are to drums as notes are to a trumpet or sax. Phrases like "practice rudiments" just reinforce that. Whenever you are practicing, you are practicing rudiments. You never hear a trumpet player say "I'm going to practice notes", it's "practice high notes" or "work on my tone (while playing notes, but that's implied)". To "practice rudiments" is redundant.



If you don't think there is any merit to this discussion, then leave it. I've never understood why people will reply with statements like "this discussion is a waste of time", didn't they just waste their time by replying that?
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:09 AM
stasz's Avatar
stasz stasz is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois, US
Posts: 2,183
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post

If you don't think there is any merit to this discussion, then leave it. I've never understood why people will reply with statements like "this discussion is a waste of time", didn't they just waste their time by replying that?
I understand, sorry if I sounded condescending but I legitimately didn't quite understand the question.

I do agree that all of our playing could be called rudiments, although I normally just call it drumming. Like you said, a trumpet player doesn't say "I'm going to practice notes".
__________________
"If you think you're more important than the drums, you've got another thing coming." -Tony Williams
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:14 AM
Latin Groover's Avatar
Latin Groover Latin Groover is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 900
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr is a single stroke roll with the lefts being played as rests.
Quote:
The first one, a single stroke roll.
No it's not. A single stroke roll is an ALTERNATING series of SINGLES. Not just one. It is just simply wrong, what you are saying.

Most people agree, that a large proportion of drumming is a mixture of singles and doubles, but not everything is a rudiment. Rudiments are exercises used to enhance control (clearly, among others uses), even including all of the Swiss rudiments etc there are only, i suspect, pushing 250 or so official rudiments.

Quote:
you can't play something that's not a rudiment
Quote:
a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments
That, besides being silly, is not what you said above. You say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment", now that is not true, this has been established; however "a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments," now your just being ridiculous... As seen here.
Quote:
Quote:
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr is a single stroke roll with the lefts being played as rests.
Now the eternal question. Can you play a rest? Or is it simply, a rest.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:19 AM
blade123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by youenjoy00myself View Post
I understand, sorry if I sounded condescending but I legitimately didn't quite understand the question.

I do agree that all of our playing could be called rudiments, although I normally just call it drumming. Like you said, a trumpet player doesn't say "I'm going to practice notes".
That's exactly my point. I think you're looking waaaaaay too deep into what I'm trying to say. Rudiments=drumming.
"I'm going to go practice (drumming)" means "I'm going to practice rudiments".
This spawned from another thread: "why are rudiments important?". That's like a trumpet player asking "why are notes important?". Notes/rudiments are what you play. You can't play a trumpet without playing notes (I guess you could hit it, but then it would be a percussion instrument and rudiments would take over), just like you can't play a drum without playing rudiments.

I think you think I'm trying to make rudiments this huge ordeal when I'm actually trying to do the exact opposite. I'm trying to reduce rudiments to their very base.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-21-2008, 05:31 AM
stasz's Avatar
stasz stasz is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois, US
Posts: 2,183
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
That's exactly my point. I think you're looking waaaaaay too deep into what I'm trying to say. Rudiments=drumming.
"I'm going to go practice (drumming)" means "I'm going to practice rudiments".
This spawned from another thread: "why are rudiments important?". That's like a trumpet player asking "why are notes important?". .
I disagree. Rudiments do NOT equal notes. If I had to name an equivalent for an instrument whose main purpose is to play definite pitch then I would say scales and chords. Rudiments are important because they organize your playing and allow you to simplify complex patterns into smaller chunks and understand them more easily. A stroke on a drum would be the same as a note for a trumpeter. In other words I was incorrect in my post before this one, I belive you can say "I'm going to practice rudiments" because that's what you do-- practice specific examples and exercises which you can utilize in your playing. You CAN call anything a rudiment but it's pointless because you should only practice what you're going to use. IF we did universally agree on something that is not a rudiment by any means, then that's pointless. I don't believe it matters however, because anything that you say can be named some rudiment whether legitimately or ridiculously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
I think you think I'm trying to make rudiments this huge ordeal when I'm actually trying to do the exact opposite. I'm trying to reduce rudiments to their very base.
That's funny, I was about to say the same thing to you. It seems that we fundamentally disagree on why drummers classify things as rudiments.

And I'll jump in on that single stroke roll deal too-- like latin groover said, RRRRRRRRRRRRR... is not a single stroke roll with the left hand resting. That's not how rudiments are constructed. Is a single stroke roll a double stroke roll with all the double strokes resting??? No.
__________________
"If you think you're more important than the drums, you've got another thing coming." -Tony Williams
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-21-2008, 07:46 AM
Wavelength's Avatar
Wavelength Wavelength is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,082
Default Re: I offer a challenge to the forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade123 View Post
RLF RLF, single stroke roll with three hits.
Single stroke roll isn't played RLL RLL or RLR RLR, let alone RLF RLF. I think you should spend some time working on your rudiments, pal... ;-)

Quote:
Seeing that singles, doubles, triples, and buzzes are all rudiments. You can't play a drum without using one of those strokes.
There's your problem -- you see it wrong. Singles, doubles and buzzes themselves are not rudiments. Single stroke roll, double stroke roll and buzz roll are rudiments. Single strokes, double strokes and buzzes are parts of rudiments.
__________________
I play Kumu Drums. I also shoot videos.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com