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  #41  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

The difference, between the way this person was treated on this forum and the typical Youtube experience, was night and day. Youtubers hold nothing back. They dislike things that sound pretty good just to post. We did well.
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  #42  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

So basically most of you not only told Jason he looked fat in that dress but that he was just fat to start off with. When in fact all he asked was ''do I look pretty in this dress?''
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  #43  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:30 PM
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I didn't see his post but I found the video pretty easily. After watching a minute and clearly seeing the issue, my response would have been encouragement at least. I saw some decent drumming skills that were just not being utilized well.

Was there an audio sync issue, perhaps?

I think with more in-depth listening to the source material, this guy would have nailed it pretty well. There was ability, just not application.
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  #44  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Blisco View Post
I didn't see his post but I found the video pretty easily. After watching a minute and clearly seeing the issue, my response would have been encouragement at least. I saw some decent drumming skills that were just not being utilized well.

Was there an audio sync issue, perhaps?

I think with more in-depth listening to the source material, this guy would have nailed it pretty well. There was ability, just not application.
I don't know which video it was and audio sync was something that struck me too, however the video I watched had him coming in and out of time. If he's been off by the same amount the whole time then I would have given the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think it's a sync issue.
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  #45  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

I could tell right away that was out and out denial. He is so delusional that he really wasn't hearing what his playing sounded like. Rose colored head-phones I guess. I found the whole thing fascinating. How can you get to a level of multi-instrument playing, being able to basically replicate songs and patterns, but have no sense of the timing or pulse of the song?

I think there's a 1% chance that he was trolling us like John said, but much more likely he's just the completely clueless "ima let you finish" type who puts his own delusional reality above the reality everyone else sees. It seems like it would be physically impossible to listen to that cream cover and not hear that you were all over the place and it sounded nothing like the original.
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  #46  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

If anybody watched some of his other vids, he's fairly cheeky, pretty insulting Nick Jonas (who I've never listened to but I think qualifies as a 'pro'). So folks, no more losing sleep over this. He will lick his wounds and learn, as we all would. Send him a 'like' if you feel really bad.
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  #47  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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Originally Posted by Salty Dog View Post
So basically most of you not only told Jason he looked fat in that dress but that he was just fat to start off with. When in fact all he asked was ''do I look pretty in this dress?''
With apologies for the sexism, guys would rather "fix the problem" than spare the ego. Ultimately it's for the greater good. On an internet forum it is much easier to not care as much about bruising egos, if the purpose behind it is actually intended for the benefit of the person.

With women, you lie about certain things like outward appearance to make them feel good. With men, we don't like to play that game.
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  #48  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:46 PM
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With women, you lie about certain things like outward appearance to make them feel good. With men, we don't like to play that game.
Ah Larry, Pandora's box.....opened!
I really must remember the quote "medicine tastes bad for a reason"
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  #49  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:48 PM
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the video I watched had him coming in and out of time. If he's been off by the same amount the whole time then I would have given the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think it's a sync issue.
My thoughts too.

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With women, you lie about certain things like outward appearance to make them feel good.
Oh behave, Larry! Mr Madge tells me (unasked, too!) if I'm wearing something that doesn't really suit me. And because he's on my side, in the way that forum members are when they watch drumming videos, I take his opinion seriously. He never says it nastily, and I really would rather know.

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With men, we don't like to play that game.
So I'm a man now, am I? Haga!
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  #50  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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My thoughts too.


Oh behave, Larry! Mr Madge tells me (unasked, too!) if I'm wearing something that doesn't really suit me. And because he's on my side, in the way that forum members are when they watch drumming videos, I take his opinion seriously. He never says it nastily, and I really would rather know.



So I'm a man now, am I? Haga!
Behaving is for children lol. I call them like I see them. And yes, not every woman needs to be lied to I mean have her feelings protected.

Did Glen express any negative things about your clothing when you were dating? Didn't think so. After you've been married a while...it's easier to be honest.

And you are completely feminine in every respect. And I'm not protecting you either!
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  #51  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:12 PM
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Did Glen express any negative things about your clothing when you were dating?
So long ago I can't remember. Probably not, and if that's so then it would probably be because in those days he didn't know I could take it on the chin!

ETA Yes, he did. I do remember. A red dress, in 1987.

Back to the original topic: When you play drums to a backing track, there's really nowhere to hide. If you post videos of your band playing, there's the whole vibe and performance, as well as other people's inaccuracies rather than just your own. When there are little mistakes, the viewer just raises an eyebrow and then forgets about it, because there's usually so much more to enjoy. The whole is a lot bigger than the sum of its parts.
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2016, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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Originally Posted by Blisco View Post
I didn't see his post but I found the video pretty easily. After watching a minute and clearly seeing the issue, my response would have been encouragement at least. I saw some decent drumming skills that were just not being utilized well.

Was there an audio sync issue, perhaps?

I think with more in-depth listening to the source material, this guy would have nailed it pretty well. There was ability, just not application.
Your post above fairly accurately describes how I first replied. I asked James if he had a monitoring issue, pointed out he had some nice ideas going on, & highlighting the need for good timing to allow those ideas to sit well in the track. Really, it couldn't have been more balanced / encouraging.

He replied by stating he could hear the track just fine, stated he "wasn't hearing it" with respect to whole song timing issues, asking if I was confused by the snare being on the "1", & requesting 2nd / 3rd opinions. When those opinions came (most respectfully delivered), he bailed. Shame :(
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2016, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

Not being funny but... as a new drummer, watching the link provided is absolutely TERRIFYING! How do you know you DONīT sound like that?!
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  #54  
Old 04-20-2016, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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Not being funny but... as a new drummer, watching the link provided is absolutely TERRIFYING! How do you know you DONīT sound like that?!
Well, you heard enough and recognized it was bad enough to feel terrified. I'd say you're on your way to being able to hear that in your own playing, too.
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  #55  
Old 04-20-2016, 10:55 PM
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Well, you heard enough and recognized it was bad enough to feel terrified. I'd say you're on your way to being able to hear that in your own playing, too.
BUT maybe itīs like one of those phenomena where you canīt really hear your own voice? I mean I have been recording practice jam sessions with friends and think "oh god, that was bad!" But then listened to playback and have been pleasantly surprised at my playing. But again, that could just be dreaded delusional thinking that has been brought up in this thread.

I think itīs pretty cringeworthy cos anyone could be "that guy". Not necessarily in drumming but with anything we do...
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  #56  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:04 PM
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BUT maybe itīs like one of those phenomena where you canīt really hear your own voice? I mean I have been recording practice jam sessions with friends and think "oh god, that was bad!" But then listened to playback and have been pleasantly surprised at my playing. But again, that could just be dreaded delusional thinking that has been brought up in this thread.

I think itīs pretty cringeworthy cos anyone could be "that guy". Not necessarily in drumming but with anything we do...
I guess that could happen, but wouldn't you want someone to tactfully let you know if you really were delusional about your playing?

It's great that you are pleasantly surprised, BTW. I've occasionally had the opposite experience, lol. Even that is a learning opportunity, though, if we use it that way.
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  #57  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:15 PM
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I guess that could happen, but wouldn't you want someone to tactfully let you know if you really were delusional about your playing?

It's great that you are pleasantly surprised, BTW. I've occasionally had the opposite experience, lol. Even that is a learning opportunity, though, if we use it that way.
How exactly do you tactfully let someone know that they are delusional? :D

Oh I have had the opposite too! When playing has felt great but then listened to playback and Iīm all over the shop. Gross.

But yeah I guess I would want to know the cold truth if I sucked. Although unless heīs in a band getting paid to work with other musicians, his feelings will be spared. People in the real world tend to be too wrapped up in their own insecure bubbles to really give a shiitake mushroom to be truthful and have to deal with the consequences of their words.

Itīs on the internet that people are most brazen and thatīs the risk we take when we put ourselves out there for praise or critique.
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  #58  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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Not being funny but... as a new drummer, watching the link provided is absolutely TERRIFYING! How do you know you DONīT sound like that?!
Post a video, ;) If you are looking for an honest opinion.
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  #59  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:18 PM
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Post a video, ;) If you are looking for an honest opinion.
hahahahahaha are you here all week?
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  #60  
Old 04-20-2016, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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Originally Posted by Blisco View Post
I didn't see his post but I found the video pretty easily. After watching a minute and clearly seeing the issue, my response would have been encouragement at least. I saw some decent drumming skills that were just not being utilized well.

Was there an audio sync issue, perhaps?

I think with more in-depth listening to the source material, this guy would have nailed it pretty well. There was ability, just not application.
I read this whole thread before watching the video (Sunshine). I was hoping this might be the case, for his sake.

As it proceeded, I thought it might indeed be possible. But then he was on time (mostly) during the choruses, and I went "awww man".

The guy in me that champions the underdog and the beginner feels bad for him. But it was his choice to put the videos on YouTube, and further bring it here for critique. By all accounts, folks here were respectful, which isnt surprising.

I'd be extremely, extremely nervous about putting a video of my playing out there, and in particular bringing it here. Not for fear of how I'd be treated, because I think most folks here are pretty reasonable. Just self-conscious about my playing, I suppose. When I'm on stage with my guys, I'm comfortable and relaxed for the most part. But video, on the web? Nah :)
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  #61  
Old 04-21-2016, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
Not being funny but... as a new drummer, watching the link provided is absolutely TERRIFYING! How do you know you DONīT sound like that?!

If you can hear other people's tempo variations, you will be able to hear yours.

Just keep recording and listening. The more you do, the more you will hear, good and bad.
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  #62  
Old 04-21-2016, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

I managed to get through 10 seconds of one of his covers.
Guys, it's not worth our attention...
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2016, 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by running View Post
Had the same q myself, but then I started to consider the possibility that this fellow is differently ableas.
I'd say, based on the weird way he hits the cymbals, that he is probably at least mildly autistic. Doesn't mean he doesn't need to hear the truth, but...I'm kind of surprised that more people haven't noticed it. He's not neurotypical, that's pretty much a certainty. I'd have said nothing at all to him, other than suggesting tricks for practicing with a metronome, or practicing in front of a mirror, or postural suggestions (his posture is pretty bad). Guys like him have usually dealt with a lot of verbal abuse from other males during their lives.
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2016, 02:30 AM
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I'd say, based on the weird way he hits the cymbals, that he is probably at least mildly autistic. Doesn't mean he doesn't need to hear the truth, but...I'm kind of surprised that more people haven't noticed it. He's not neurotypical, that's pretty much a certainty. I'd have said nothing at all to him, other than suggesting tricks for practicing with a metronome, or practicing in front of a mirror, or postural suggestions (his posture is pretty bad). Guys like him have usually dealt with a lot of verbal abuse from other males during their lives.
You're offering a medical opinion and subsequent psychological evaluation from the way he hits his cymbals?

That's a very long bow old mate.
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  #65  
Old 04-21-2016, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
You're offering a medical opinion and subsequent psychological evaluation from the way he hits his cymbals?

That's a very long bow old mate.
Get out of here with your reasonable and pointed responses. This forum is for snark and unqualified statements. I can tell by the way larry hits his cymbals that he's a communist who likes k-pop more than blues. Can't argue with that.
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  #66  
Old 04-21-2016, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

I'm a little late to the party, but I just watched a couple of the vids, and my first reaction was simply "Oh dear."

I didn't see the original thread, but I really don't think anybody here is at all malicious in their criticisms. To put it simply, it was just bad. However, that isn't instructive or helpful; the comments offered here were.
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  #67  
Old 04-21-2016, 03:36 AM
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You're offering a medical opinion and subsequent psychological evaluation from the way he hits his cymbals?

That's a very long bow old mate.
Non-neurotypical people rarely have totally normal posture and movement, especially if they suffer from sensory processing disorder or proprioceptive problems, which have EXTREMELY high co-morbidity with autism spectrum disorders.

IOW, people that move weird ARE weird, unless suffering froma physical injury that they're compensating for. That's a little bit of a broad brush, but it holds pretty true. I'm a student of human posture and movement, I notice posture and movement a LOT more than most people.

If you think I'm srong about him, message him and ask if he's been diagnosed with any autism spectrum or related disorders. And don't call me mate, please. I find it offensive.
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  #68  
Old 04-21-2016, 05:44 AM
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Non-neurotypical people rarely have totally normal posture and movement, especially if they suffer from sensory processing disorder or proprioceptive problems, which have EXTREMELY high co-morbidity with autism spectrum disorders.

IOW, people that move weird ARE weird, unless suffering froma physical injury that they're compensating for. That's a little bit of a broad brush, but it holds pretty true. I'm a student of human posture and movement, I notice posture and movement a LOT more than most people.

If you think I'm srong about him, message him and ask if he's been diagnosed with any autism spectrum or related disorders. And don't call me mate, please. I find it offensive.
You find "mate" offensive? There's a new one. I suggest you never visit Oz, the UK or New Zealand then pal/buddy/compadre/friend. You'd be offended to the point of insanity. I call everyone mate. Man, woman and child. As do the vast majority of my countrymen. I'll try to remember your sheer sensitivity to matters relating to the outright trivial, but it is an ingrained habit developed over more than 40 years of being an Aussie, so please forgive me if I forget in the future.

That aside, I'm glad you've clarified that you are a student of posture and movement. It's always been my observation that there tends to be no greater experts on any topic, than the student. But I'm hesitant to speak too authoritatively on the matter. I'd probably need to see you hit a cymbal before I could say for certain.
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  #69  
Old 04-21-2016, 05:53 AM
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I'd say, based on the weird way he hits the cymbals, that he is probably at least mildly autistic.
And his guitar playing? Doesn't look at all 'different' to me. He's got pretty good dexterity there.
And back to the original question, how much honesty?
There can never be enough honesty.
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Old 04-21-2016, 06:59 AM
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You're offering a medical opinion and subsequent psychological evaluation from the way he hits his cymbals?

That's a very long bow old mate.
In push-pull's defense, my first thought was the same as theirs (Autism Spectrum Disorder, ASD), and I tried to tacitly mention it upthread to encourage people to think twice about piling on. I have experience with this population and once you know what you're looking for it can be fairly easy to spot.

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  #71  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:01 AM
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And his guitar playing? Doesn't look at all 'different' to me. He's got pretty good dexterity there.
And back to the original question, how much honesty?
There can never be enough honesty.
First, ASD comes in many, many flavors and everyone has different physical and mental responses. There are a couple classic tropes that dominate our societal understanding, but there are actually a handful of very successful musicians with ASD out there.

Second, with regard to your specific example, grip/finger dexterity actually doesn't tell us much.

For a more extreme example, watch this boy's arms at 3:09, and then see what happens when he finds the keys and begins to play the piano. From floppy to dextrous. A good part of the population with ASD actually look their most "normal" and have the greatest amount of control over their bodies when playing instruments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oZaCrkCxu8&t=3m09
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  #72  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:16 AM
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In push-pull's defense, my first thought was the same as his (Autism Spectrum Disorder, ASD), and I tried to tacitly mention it upthread to encourage people to think twice about piling on. I have experience with this population and once you know what you're looking for it can be fairly easy to spot.
I wouldn't be so bold to suggest that you're emphatically wrong. But similarly, nor would I be so bold to suggest that "that he is probably at least mildly autistic" and then making the huge leap to "guys like him have usually dealt with a lot of verbal abuse from other males during their lives" all gleaned from a humble swipe at a cymbal, either.

I have no real dog in this fight either way. But in the interest of common sense and sound reason, I just think it's a stretch to think nothing of a student offering a pretty bloody sophisticated medical diagnoses via internet, after little more than a passing glance of a cymbal strike on a youtube clip of Sunshine Of Your Love, is all. He may well be right, but I can't think of too many actual medical experts who'd stake their career and reputations by offering a diagnosis using the same limited criteria as laid out in this thread. Can you?
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  #73  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:18 AM
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You find "mate" offensive? There's a new one. I suggest you never visit Oz, the UK or New Zealand then pal/buddy/compadre/friend. You'd be offended to the point of insanity. I call everyone mate. Man, woman and child. As do the vast majority of my countrymen. I'll try to remember your sheer sensitivity to matters relating to the outright trivial, but it is an ingrained habit developed over more than 40 years of being an Aussie, so please forgive me if I forget in the future.

That aside, I'm glad you've clarified that you are a student of posture and movement. It's always been my observation that there tends to be no greater experts on any topic, than the student. But I'm hesitant to speak too authoritatively on the matter. I'd probably need to see you hit a cymbal before I could say for certain.
Honestly..Shit Hot Mate....!!!!!!...
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  #74  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:31 AM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

It’s so nice to know that this forum can provide me with help on my drumming along with analysis on my emotional, and physiological health.
What a great place this is.


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  #75  
Old 04-21-2016, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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Originally Posted by Hollywood Jim View Post
It’s so nice to know that this forum can provide me with help on my drumming along with analysis on my emotional, and physiological health.
What a great place this is.


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Well, I've seen video of you playing, Jim, and I didn't really want to say anything, but...
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:35 AM
running running is offline
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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He may well be right, but I can't think of too many actual medical experts who'd stake their career and reputations by offering a diagnosis using the same limited criteria as laid out in this thread. Can you?
No one is staking their career/reputation on this (I feel comfortable speaking for push-pull here), so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that.

The point I (and I believe push-pull) were trying to make was that it may be worth it to consider that this particular individual comes from a different cognitive background than many of the posters on this board, and perhaps in light of this potential, members may also consider respecting his desire to become anonymous to DW after the interaction he had here and temper their critiques accordingly, given that potential. Folks are obviously free to disagree, say whatever they like, etc. Just food for thought.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

Some guy posts a video of his playing asking for opinions.
Based on where this thread has gone, I think we have finally discovered how much honesty is too much.


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Well, I've seen video of you playing, Jim, and I didn't really want to say anything, but...
HA ! Good one....


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Old 04-21-2016, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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HA ! Good one....
;) You know me - when the going gets rough, it's time to crack a joke.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:51 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

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Originally Posted by running View Post
No one is staking their career/reputation on this (I feel comfortable speaking for push-pull here), so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that.

The point I (and I believe push-pull) were trying to make was that it may be worth it to consider that this particular individual comes from a different cognitive background than many of the posters on this board, and perhaps in light of this potential, members may also consider respecting his desire to become anonymous to DW after the interaction he had here and temper their critiques accordingly, given that potential. Folks are obviously free to disagree, say whatever they like, etc. Just food for thought.
If I'm honest, I didn't see too much gentle prompting for mere "consideration" contained within that first post. But nonetheless, my point wasn't that it isn't even worthy of thought. More that a youtube clip presented on a drum forum is a pretty limited criteria to base a hypothesis of some guy's entire medical background on.

But anyway, it's certainly more juicy and exciting than my diagnosis that the guy just had shitty timing and could do with listening to the advice he initially sought out rather than pick up his bat and ball and going home when he didn't hear the raucous accolades he was expecting to hear. Your's and Push's has been far more interesting.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:00 AM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: How Much Honesty is Too Much?

Looking at his other vids, he has just enough ability to make me think his youtube chan is a parody/gag, like Rational Funk. (Which I find hilarious BTW).

Then I saw a couple other of his videos and... If it is a parody/gag, he's certainly committed to it.
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