Technical vs Musical Drumming

Ben Corbitt

Junior Member
To understand this range of playing I'm describing here,

imagine the most overplayed, technical drum work. Then, the most simplistic servitude towards the music.

How do YOU personally define each of these contrasts?

and once defined, do you believe there is a happy middle ground?



Inspiration for this subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM6bDkP37wA
 
If you're aware of the technicalities of the drumming, perhaps it's not so very musical?
 
I think you're either talking about playing to different styles of music, or playing incorrectly for the song if you think one side of the analogy is extreme.
 
Here we go again people.

In fairness, it has been about three weeks since the last groove vs chops thread. If anything, it's probably a couple of days overdue.

If my opinion is worth anything, then I agree with the definitive and unwavering consensus as concluded in all previous discussions.

Now, traditional vs matched grip anyone?
 
In fairness, it has been about three weeks since the last groove vs chops thread. If anything, it's probably a couple of days overdue.

If my opinion is worth anything, then I agree with the definitive and unwavering consensus as concluded in all previous discussions.

Now, traditional vs matched grip anyone?

Really?

I must have been missing them. It seems like ages since we've had chops vs. groove.

Have we ever discussed traditional grip vs. metal snares?
 
How about Good vs Bad drumming?

Lets just cut right to the chase. It always seems to me that the less "technically skilled" players put up these threads to make themselves feel good.

There's an old joke at Berklee. "Oh, you're a groove player. In other words you have no chops"

The bar today is set at lots of groove plus lots of chops. Today's top drummers have it all in spades.
 
How about Good vs Bad drumming?

Lets just cut right to the chase. It always seems to me that the less "technically skilled" players put up these threads to make themselves feel good.

There's an old joke at Berklee. "Oh, you're a groove player. In other words you have no chops"

The bar today is set at lots of groove plus lots of chops. Today's top drummers have it all in spades.

Then you argue "So you are a technician. In other words you have no feel or musicality" Its a none argument. To be realy cutting you could say "Thats right, I have taste, feel and originality, unlike the Berklee clones". Ouch.

Play for the music.
 
The problem is both arguments have some positive thinking and some negative thinking attached to them.

Groove/feel is a good thing but using 'groove/feel' as an excuse to avoid practicing and developing the craft of playing is a bit of a musical dead end.

Having loads of technique is good but not if the player fails to see the music, fails to put the song first.

Similarly, being competitive about your playing can push you on to practice more than someone who is more relaxed, but ultimately there needs to be some substance behind the playing.

I'm a bit of an advocate for trying to go against your natural instinct, at least a little bit.

I'm naturally very technical- I was as a guitarist, and I'll freely admit I sometimes failed to see the music.
Now I'm concentrating on being a drummer I am doing a lot of technical exercises to get my chops up.
I also put this next to the music stand to remind me that I'm playing a foundation instrument and sometimes 'what I want' is not what the music needs:

ry%3D480


I'd also suggest that the less technically oriented players try to get a bit more technique, to delve into the craft- it will only inform your playing and if your natural tendency is to not do this sort of thing then it isn't as though your base position will change overnight. Knowing some technique and having some chops won't invalidate your music.
 
The argument makes no sense.

There is plenty of technical drumming that is musical and non-technical drumming that isn't the least bit musical.

And plenty of what sounds like simple drumming requires technique to get it to sound just right.
 
Well, the title may be a bit off but I enjoyed the video clip.
DrumEatDrum and others as well say it best and that is it certainly makes a difference to have technique in order to play musically well.
Having said that I have made some changes recently in order to not overplay.
Many of the latest sessions I have had lately have been with song writers and believe me, when it is their song most do not like a busy drummer.
My technique lacks I guess I would say but I am told that my drumming is appreciated and when I compare recordings (home made) as I progress with the song I hear the difference and will cringe when I hear an errant cymbal crash or some fill I though was cool; not to mention dynamics.
It is interesting to find out that toning down can be a challenge;unless you have
the chops.
 
I've done the whole marching band thing and got my hands faster than the rest of the drumline, but then I had to learn how to do cheeses and various other hybrid rudiments - point being, there's not just "technique." There are whole separate worlds of techniques and knowing how and when to use them makes you a musician.

Somehow I came off of my Gene Hoglan binge and went straight to Sara Bareilles. Gene's parts are chops-fully difficult, but otherwise pretty straightforward, and I thought copping Brian McLeod's and Matt Chamberlain's feels were a lot more of a mental workout whereas with Gene it's more of a stamina thing, but both styles of playing are totally appropriate for their genres of music.
 
How about Good vs Bad drumming?

Lets just cut right to the chase. It always seems to me that the less "technically skilled" players put up these threads to make themselves feel good.

There's an old joke at Berklee. "Oh, you're a groove player. In other words you have no chops"

The bar today is set at lots of groove plus lots of chops. Today's top drummers have it all in spades.

>"Oh, you're a groove player. In other words you have no chops"

Two edged sword,Bernard Purdie is chops challenged,but has an ear that most drummers would kill for.
Noticed that about Krupa too.
 
Noticed that about Krupa too.

Krupa was a performing musician. He was neither groove nor chops. He was a guy with incredible charisma and stage presence. In the context of performing musicians, you only need enough musicality and technical ability in order to fool the audience into thinking that you're having a great time.
 
Where are our manners...

First of all Ben, welcome to the forum, I've seen you joined a little while ago so I'm guessing you've been lurking all this time :)

Yes, this topic has been discussed in many forms and in many threads, it does pay to search for similar threads and simply add your comments in those threads, having said that, I know it's easier to start a new one :)

Right, the topic :)

Technical vs Musical Drumming, while I understand what you meant (I think) I don't really like the term "technical drumming" or "technical music", it's all drumming and it's all music, in whichever form it's presented and there are many out there.

Has it has been said already in this thread, I think both extremes complete each other, it's the musical context that often dictate the patterns, rhythms, grooves and what's not... Listen to guys like Vinnie Colaiuta, Simon Phillips or Steve Gadd, these cats can play anything, from the money beat to the ultimate complex patterns, their choices of drumming are solely based on the music, not the technical aspect of it.

Technique, while an important aspect of any instruments, is only a tool we develop to convey our skills onto the instrument, nothing more, nothing less and granted, some possess more technique than others, but when you play with your band or an artist, only feel, musicality, creativity, taste, emotions, etc comes into play, it's never a question of technique.

Now that I defined what I think of these contrasts, my happy "middle ground" is to serve the music to the best of my abilities and keep learning.

Once again, welcome to the forum :)
 
Krupa was the best. He was outclassed by others in his era, but yeah, you're right, his charisma was top notch. I'd put him as probably the most charismatic drummer in history. Sing Sing Sing may be easy, but damn is it a better song than anything Buddy Rich did. Plus he was just so damn bombastic and fun to watch on the few film clips we have of him.

Sorry, bit of a Krupa fanboy here....
 
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