Bad gig, good learning experience.

Larry

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
So we did an outdoor little 2 hour mini concert on the porch of a mansion overlooking the Delaware River last evening, the weather was gorgeous. Anyway I asked should I bring my mics and was told no. To make a long story short, I thought I had to play harder to fill up the spacious property that was laid out before me. I'm not used to playing my stuff any louder than I like to, but I thought I had to last night.

That was a mistake. The music lost the feel. I couldn't get settled. I was inconsistent, some parts were too loud and others were OK . And I was dead wrong about having to play harder, I projected just fine. It would have been much better if I had just played like I do in the small rooms. Someone should have put blinders on me lol.

So lesson learned, the feel I get when I play normally.... gets lost when I try and just play the same exact stuff only louder. I can go softer no problem, but louder than normal doesn't work at all with me. Strange. This is why I record stuff, so I can make sure that never happens again.

Other things happened that helped make it not the best thing we've done too, bad PA sound, no good bass tone, and the bass player was really off in his own world.

Normally my bandleader runs the PA but not last night, hence the issues.
 
Oh yea, it was just perfect weather last night, low humidity, and a gentle river breeze. And we got more than a few nice compliments, but sheesh I wish I could get a do-over.
 
Yeah playing outdoors can create several challenges.
Most common is that the whole band begins to play louder because they can't hear themselves the way they are used to. And sometimes a player can not hear their bandmate on the other side of the stage.

The best solution I have found is to set up the band in a semi circle.


.
 
Our fill in bass player got us the gig, he provided the PA and set the mix. Not too good. Our regular bass player got his index fretting finger mangled between a bicycle chain and the sprocket.

I was even given a dedicated monitor....so I could hear the looper. Yea buddy, there's no way I'm losing it tonight!

NOT!

I couldn't pick out the low volume rhythm figure over the thick slide guitar tone, the rhythm figure was totally masked, the bass player doesn't hear the loop and he's pulling me along...

After 3 songs he just gave up trying to use it, it was worse than not having a monitor.

Plus I was using 5B acorn tipped sticks and I am not used to them. A little extra force make too much volume compared to my other stick, closer to a 5A.

The acorn tips sounded really harsh last night too. It was one of my crappiest nights, but the one's I learn the most from.
 
A beautiful outdoor gig in the first days of summer sounds like everyone must have had a good time even though you thought you were banging prehistoric.

My gig last night was odd too. I put Canopus leather washers on my hammered bronze snare and they sucked the ring out of it. I didn't play it before the gig and while playing I kept grabbing the tuning key to tighten the drum, but the ring was elusive, and consequently, I favored the rimshot, to the detriment of my civilities.
 
Larry, it looks to me like the biggest problem was not having somebody who has an idea of what you want to sound like to go out front and either tweak the mix or signal/tell you how to play different.
 
The thing about hearing is this- You should hear the song internally in your head and play to that, all the while allowing your notes to mesh with the other players. Sometimes you can't hear as deep into the music as you normally are used to, so you need to train yourself to feel it.

So many situations I get in where I can't hear everything so I just listen to the "points" on the line rather than giving mindspace to reaching for something I can't get at that moment. You have to "interpolate" those bits.
 
larryace said:
Our fill in bass player got us the gig, he provided the PA and set the mix. Not too good. Our regular bass player got his index fretting finger mangled between a bicycle chain and the sprocket.

I was even given a dedicated monitor....so I could hear the looper. Yea buddy, there's no way I'm losing it tonight!

NOT!

I couldn't pick out the low volume rhythm figure over the thick slide guitar tone, the rhythm figure was totally masked, the bass player doesn't hear the loop and he's pulling me along...

After 3 songs he just gave up trying to use it, it was worse than not having a monitor.

Plus I was using 5B acorn tipped sticks and I am not used to them. A little extra force make too much volume compared to my other stick, closer to a 5A.

The acorn tips sounded really harsh last night too. It was one of my crappiest nights, but the one's I learn the most from.
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Thats the most important lesson right there. Dont try anything new, equipment wise, at a gig. Stick with what you know and are comfortable with. If you want to change something do it during practice at home, or at least at band practice to see if it works for you and only gig it when you are sure it works.

I have done it before and spent the whole gig fretting about how something is not right and it just distracts you from playing and enjoying the music.
 
Larry, as near bottom feeder drummers, we live in mud sometimes. Sure, everything's fine when you're playing in an environment where there's a room balance, but in my world at least, that's the exception rather than the rule. Certainly, back in the day, all I frequently heard was mud. That "soup" of reflected sound coming from the rear of the FOH stacks mixed with rear line howl is all I mostly had to work with. As Bill said, you pick up the changes, then "auto pilot" the rest such that your parts are satisfying to you. Hitting harder to balance your perception of the mix leaves you chasing your own tail.
 
I'd cross this off as one to forget and one for "Character Building" lol

Frustrating they happen but we all have a bad gig at times, down to many different fators and most out of our hands, which it sounds like in this case.

One of those ones. Onto the next one.
 
I'm trying to figure out exactly what you learned there Larry. It sounds to me like you are saying you should only play gigs where the situation is perfect and you can play in the same dynamic ranges you always play in. I hope that's not what you are saying, because that's really not a lesson at all.

We play shows in large halls with great sound systems and tiny bars where only the vocals are miced. We rarely get sound checks, and I think I have had a dedicated monitor twice in the last dozen shows. You have to adapt to the situation, usually on the fly, and play your show.
 
Thanks for the support guys. It's not that I couldn't hear. I almost don't need to hear to do my parts. It was the fact that I thought I had to play harder than I normally do, because I was unmiced, and there was this huge expansive lawn in front of me.. I was in no way even close to slamming the drums. I felt I had to play probably 25% harder than normal, which was all wrong. I am just amazed at how the feel was altered from OK to not OK with an increase in how hard I hit.

Never again. If I need more volume (which I didn't this time) I'm micing from now on.

This is what I get for playing the same 3 rooms all the time.
 
I had something similar at our last gig funny enough come to think of it.

In the bands studio that afternoon I cranked my snare up real tight (normally play mid tension with this band) and it felt so great that I played like that for the next 4 hours or so for the remainder. Felt really relaxed/confident about my playing that evening.- my mind was ready for it.

Cue a couple hours later at the venue it came our turn to soundcheck. Got up on stage and the snare tuning that felt great earlier didn’t feel right at all, and felt like it was throwing me all off balance. I was all over the shop, I was making basic mistakes..etc

My playing at soundcheck was awful, so much so my nerves were in a mess- although I put some of it down to tiredness too and kept trying to tell myself to chill. Didnt help the tuning really didnt suit the venue also, there was no projection even with the mics.

As we took the stage as visons of a nightmare gig/dropped sticks had gone through my mind in the couple hours since where pre show nerves/adrenaline had kicked in so decided to quickly tune the snare down again while the guitarists got themselves ready/singer introduced us, it then felt and sounded instantly great, my nerves completely disappeared was a great, great show where all the band played really well- compliments were given by the audience- hell we even sold some CD's!

Funny how these things happen. I'm normally very relaxed and we've played this venue lots of times now but I let my mind run havoc on me.

Funny old business is gigging/our own minds in terms of our projections of our own playing.
 
At least you were able to correct things. It is funny that a tuning that works in one room plain out sucks in another room. It's like wha? huh?
 
As I said in my last post. Comfort zone is the key. We all have to play in "Wrong" situations or venues, or stages where we cant hear what the other musicians are playing. Thats why we need to stick to what we know and use the gear, sticks and tunings we are comfortable with. Cut out as many variables and unknowns as possible then its just up to our tried and tested playing to get through a difficult gig. Control what you can control, the rest is out of your hands.

Larry, If you had used your usual sticks and played at your usual volume would the gig have been ok?
 
Sitting behind the drums, it's hard to know what the audience hears. We're the one instrumentalist who can't walk out front and hear the band from the audience perspective.

We had a rehearsal in the band-leader's garage this week (outdoor rehearsals and gigs are the best part of summer) and I was holding back a bit on the volume. The band-leader walked out on the lawn about 30 yards back and said it was amazing how hard it was to hear the drums out there, while inside the garage they sounded plenty loud. Acoustics are a funny thing.

I have to say, I welcome an excuse to slam the hell out of my drums. I don't get to do that as often as I like. I like getting a full windup on my backbeats and just laying into the drums for a bit. Maybe not for 2 1/2 hours straight, but I like a chance to do it now and then. That's one of the nice things about outdoor shows; we can dial back the drums in the mix and I can wail away.
 
mikel said:
Larry, If you had used your usual sticks and played at your usual volume would the gig have been ok?
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Oh most definitely. I think I was the biggest factor into making it not feel right.

The PA wasn't that bad, it was me who was making everything too drum heavy, and missing the loops (hits forehead with heel of palm) Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!

I was just mad at myself for not realizing it while it was happening, that's the real crime. Never again man. I play at the volume I normally do... or softer....but definitely not louder than normal.

STXBob it was Shipman's Mansion in Edgewater Park NJ. The Red Dragon Canoe Club paid for the event if you recognize that.
 
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