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  #41  
Old 04-07-2014, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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Originally Posted by PDL View Post
4/4 would give a completley different feel, there are no groups of three in 4/4.
...A triplet played in 4/4 can be a group of 3 per beat...so yes...there CAN be groups of 3 in a 4/4 timing.

Remember that time signature does not describe the music...it describes how to commonly describe the music...and the time signature given to ANY music is arbitrary...and intended for communication purposes.(one persons 4/4 is anothers 2/4...or 5/4 that finds a common "1" every 20 beats...depending on the musical phrase described, of course)

The descriptive charactaristic of "time signature" is ARBITRARY.

You can play something noted in 4/4 with a "3" feel.

You can play something written in 6/8 with a rigid "2" feel.

Of course, both are ruled by the accents and additional charactaristics of the written music...such as ties and even hand written notes in the margin from the writer.


A time signature is not music...it is part of an arbitrary set of conventions to describe music. Western Notation gives us infinite ways to describe one specific musical moment.



disclaimer: I only call myself professional when I accept money...so please feel free to ignore me ; )
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  #42  
Old 04-18-2014, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

Triplets can be played in 4/4, you shouldn't be counting your bass notes as quarter notes at 250 bpm. You're getting confused because your counting six, which we refer to as 3/4. Even if 6/8 repeats at 12 measures, that's no where near what you described. 6/8, oddmeter or polyrhythm, is not even relevant to this. All in all your both wrong it's 2/4, ride on 1, snare on two, eight note triplet bass.
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  #43  
Old 04-18-2014, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

I take it that in the full face of adversity, the OP has legged it outta here?

Way to bury your head in the sand.
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  #44  
Old 04-18-2014, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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Originally Posted by Dodeska View Post
I'm confused.
What's a time signature? I just hit stuff rhythmically so that it sounds good to me AND the rest of the band.
I think you're onto something... :)
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  #45  
Old 04-18-2014, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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I take it that in the full face of adversity, the OP has legged it outta here?

Way to bury your head in the sand.
The OP hasn't been here since 4/4/14 Jules.I guess he tried other forums, where he thought he'd get the answer he was looking for,be it truth or fiction.:)

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  #46  
Old 04-18-2014, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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I'm confused.
What's a time signature? I just hit stuff rhythmically so that it sounds good to me AND the rest of the band.

I'm not confused.
And you have a perfect solution !

.
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  #47  
Old 04-18-2014, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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I'm not confused.
And you have a perfect solution !

.
Kind of makes me happy that I am blissfully ignorant about all of this time signature debate! I am with him, I just sit down and hit things; most times it works out pretty well!
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  #48  
Old 04-18-2014, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

There are several ways to drum for a song, your way is one of them, Keith Moons way is another way.
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  #49  
Old 04-18-2014, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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I take it that in the full face of adversity, the OP has legged it outta here?

Way to bury your head in the sand.
Have to say I miss these 'kinds' of exchanges on here from time to time....whether its time sigs, Ringo, coated vs. clear, Evans vs. Remo

They help exercise ones' conflict resolution skills.
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  #50  
Old 04-18-2014, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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There are several ways to drum for a song, your way is one of them, Keith Moons way is another way.
And this has something to do with this thread... how?

I propose a new law of this forum: Tharakan's Law.

There are several ways of posting in a thread. My way is one way, Tharakan's way is another way.
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  #51  
Old 04-18-2014, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

I once had the same problem when a song went into a sort of half-time shuffle feel for the bridge, the keyboardist didn't understand. And god help me if I counted off "one-n-two-n-THREE-n-four-n".

Anyway...I feel your pain.
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  #52  
Old 04-18-2014, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Have to say I miss these 'kinds' of exchanges on here from time to time....whether its time sigs, Ringo, coated vs. clear, Evans vs. Remo

They help exercise ones' conflict resolution skills.

This one has been particularly bloody hilarious, hasn't it. A most excellent giggle.

Although it's difficult to resolve conflict when you're too busy running away from the fight you just picked. :-)


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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
There are several ways of posting in a thread. My way is one way, Tharakan's way is another way.
There are those who post "by the book" and those who are just so damned unique, they can afford to throw out said book.

You my friend, are a "book" poster. And you're in real danger of sounding just like all the other "book" posters on the forum. Throw the damned thing away and let your inner Pachik-Moon shine!! :-)
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  #53  
Old 04-19-2014, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

Book? If it were a book, it'd be by the Marquis de Sade and Sartre...

Hell's own collaboration.
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  #54  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:04 PM
Nour Ayasso Nour Ayasso is offline
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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Originally Posted by Dodeska View Post
I'm confused.
What's a time signature? I just hit stuff rhythmically so that it sounds good to me AND the rest of the band.
And as laid back as that is, music theory is here for a reason, to correctly structure and organize music. You wouldn't even be able to rhythmically hit anything if you didn't understand the simplest theories of rhythm.
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  #55  
Old 04-21-2014, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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And as laid back as that is, music theory is here for a reason, to correctly structure and organize music. You wouldn't even be able to rhythmically hit anything if you didn't understand the simplest theories of rhythm.
My two-year-old can sing and play the drums, piano, guitar and bass rhythmically, and I'm quite certain that she hasn't a clue about the "theories of rhythm".
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  #56  
Old 04-21-2014, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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You wouldn't even be able to rhythmically hit anything if you didn't understand the simplest theories of rhythm.
this is false on so many levels
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  #57  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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Originally Posted by Nour Ayasso View Post
And as laid back as that is, music theory is here for a reason, to correctly structure and organize music. You wouldn't even be able to rhythmically hit anything if you didn't understand the simplest theories of rhythm.
Rubbish. You don't need to study or understand music theory to play in time, and you certainly don't need to know a time signature to play a rhythm.
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  #58  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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this is false on so many levels
It really isn't. Even if it's subconscious and/or innate, you still must have an understanding of rhythm in order to execute it. If you don't, you're just flailing and hoping.

Having a theoretical understanding of what you're doing makes playing music - or indeed any activity - infinitely less of a struggle. You don't have to know that what you just played is a paradiddle, but it helps.

As others have noted, notation is merely another language in which music can be expressed. It is portable - you can carry the score to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in your briefcase, but if you need to "learn it by ear" you need 80 people, their instruments, and a concert hall. It is also universal - an eighth note on the G line on the first beat of a measure in 4/4 time at 120 beats per minute is not subjective, whether you're in Des Moines or Prague. It has a specific note in frequency and duration in time. (NB: If it's marked "piano", yes, that's subjective. But dynamics are in my experience the only way in which noted music is subjective.) It's the same if you speak English or Czech or Somali. It's a way for me to express a practice regime to a student without relying on the student's memory for the patterns I've assigned her to practice.

Those who deride musical theory are as unwise (and douchey) as those who deride musicians who have no theory.
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  #59  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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Rubbish. You don't need to study or understand music theory to play in time, and you certainly don't need to know a time signature to play a rhythm.
Do you need theory? No. Does it help? Definitely and infinitely.

I confess I don't really understand why any musician would refuse to learn theory. It's just another tool in your toolbox, another part of the whole mosaic that is music.

To deliberately shun theory is as baffling as deliberately shunning, say, brushes. Or a crash cymbal. Or playing with one arm only. Can you do it? Sure. Ask wossname from Def Leppard. :) My question is "Why would you if you don't have to?"

That's enough philosophizing for me for today. Y'all have fun! :D
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  #60  
Old 04-21-2014, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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It really isn't. Even if it's subconscious and/or innate, you still must have an understanding of rhythm in order to execute it. If you don't, you're just flailing and hoping.

Having a theoretical understanding of what you're doing makes playing music - or indeed any activity - infinitely less of a struggle. You don't have to know that what you just played is a paradiddle, but it helps.

As others have noted, notation is merely another language in which music can be expressed. It is portable - you can carry the score to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in your briefcase, but if you need to "learn it by ear" you need 80 people, their instruments, and a concert hall. It is also universal - an eighth note on the G line on the first beat of a measure in 4/4 time at 120 beats per minute is not subjective, whether you're in Des Moines or Prague. It has a specific note in frequency and duration in time. (NB: If it's marked "piano", yes, that's subjective. But dynamics are in my experience the only way in which noted music is subjective.) It's the same if you speak English or Czech or Somali. It's a way for me to express a practice regime to a student without relying on the student's memory for the patterns I've assigned her to practice.

Those who deride musical theory are as unwise (and douchey) as those who deride musicians who have no theory.
so when my 10 month old daughter repeats a rhythm that I tap on the table perfectly back to me she has an understanding of theory ?

false... 100%

she is repeating what she hears exactly ... nothing more

when a song she likes is on she can tap along in time for the entire song and barely has and understanding what the words she can say mean let alone music theory

rhythm is primal my friend and has absolutely nothing to do with music theory

music theory was created to scientifically break down rhythms and tones .... but rhythm is not theory .... rhythm is as natural as the blood in our veins

....and as a player and fully educated musician with a degree who makes his living solely by playing and teaching music .... I can confidently say that theory is not 100% necessary to make a living

where I am an advocate of having a solid understanding of theory ..... a drummer easily make a living knowing the basics that he learned in public school if he/she is a player of substance

in its origins rhythm meant.... bring the rains for our crops .... the buffalo are dead.....war.......new life was born.....time to hunt .....etc etc

were they handing out charts in the tribes of Africa ?.... or were they just repeating what they heard since birth...... yeah the latter

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  #61  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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so when my 10 month old daughter repeats a rhythm that I tap on the table perfectly back to me she has an understanding of theory ?
If I understood Bob correctly what he is saying Tony is that your ten month old has a subconscious understanding of rhythm in order to play back the taps that you play for her in a rhythmic way - if she did not play back what you tapped for her or if she was way off in replicating what you did she would not have that subconscious understanding. I think I buy that....

MM
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  #62  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:27 PM
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If I understood Bob correctly what he is saying Tony is that your ten month old has a subconscious understanding of rhythm in order to play back the taps that you play for her in a rhythmic way - if she did not play back what you tapped for her or if she was way off in replicating what you did she would not have that subconscious understanding. I think I buy that....

MM
there is no subconscious understanding of rhythm for a 10 month old..... it is simply repeating what you hear.... like words

she repeats words.... does that mean she has a subconscious understanding of the english language ?

rhythm is primal and there is absolutely zero need to understand anything about it before being able to produce it..... zero

just like vocalizing is primal.....if you put a bunch of newborns on an island with no contact with any sort of education .... they eventually would find rhythm and they would find a means of communication through vocalizing
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:28 PM
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there is no subconscious understanding of rhythm for a 10 month old..... it is simply repeating what you hear.... like words

she repeats words.... does that mean she has a subconscious understanding of the english language ?

rhythm is primal and there is absolutely zero need to understand anything about it before being able to produce it..... zero
We will agree to disagree :-) I stand down sir.
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:37 PM
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Those who deride musical theory are as unwise (and douchey) as those who deride musicians who have no theory.
???? I don't think anybody on DW derides theory, and that wasn't the debate at all. You've got it all twisted.

You've turned it sour, now a sort of low brow name-calling, by wrongly referring to debaters as a former application for feminine hygiene.

People are a basically just saying you can know and play a rhythm naturally.

Have a read of Levitins' This is Your Brain on Music".
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  #65  
Old 04-21-2014, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Argument with Guitarist over time signature

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Originally Posted by Mike_In_KC View Post
If I understood Bob correctly what he is saying Tony is that your ten month old has a subconscious understanding of rhythm in order to play back the taps that you play for her in a rhythmic way - if she did not play back what you tapped for her or if she was way off in replicating what you did she would not have that subconscious understanding. I think I buy that....

MM
Nah. Tony's 10 month old daughter is in the mimic stage. All children do this, it is how they learn. Try to teach a toddler colors and shapes and you will see what I mean. They learn to say red. You show them blue, orange, and green. To the child, it is just a color. They are all red, because the child does not understand the difference in the colors, only that it is a color, and red is a color, so all colors must be red. They don't start to differentiate the difference in colors until they fully understand what color really is. This is why toddlers are so entertaining, they do something that they saw someone else do, and it gets a response, so they repeat it. They don't start to properly use what they have learned until they understand its meaning. Toddlers don't know what rhythm is, they just know they like it because they see their parents enjoying it.
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  #66  
Old 04-21-2014, 07:51 PM
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As others have noted, notation is merely another language in which music can be expressed. It is portable - you can carry the score to Beethoven's Ninth Symphony in your briefcase, but if you need to "learn it by ear" you need 80 people, their instruments, and a concert hall. It is also universal - an eighth note on the G line on the first beat of a measure in 4/4 time at 120 beats per minute is not subjective, whether you're in Des Moines or Prague. It has a specific note in frequency and duration in time. (NB: If it's marked "piano", yes, that's subjective. But dynamics are in my experience the only way in which noted music is subjective.) It's the same if you speak English or Czech or Somali. It's a way for me to express a practice regime to a student without relying on the student's memory for the patterns I've assigned her to practice.
Damn, Tony... You just got totally schooled on music notation! Always good to learn new stuff, right?
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  #67  
Old 04-21-2014, 07:53 PM
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Nah. Tony's 10 month old daughter is in the mimic stage. All children do this, it is how they learn. Try to teach a toddler colors and shapes and you will see what I mean. They learn to say red. You show them blue, orange, and green. To the child, it is just a color. They are all red, because the child does not understand the difference in the colors, only that it is a color, and red is a color, so all colors must be red. They don't start to differentiate the difference in colors until they fully understand what color really is. This is why toddlers are so entertaining, they do something that they saw someone else do, and it gets a response, so they repeat it. They don't start to properly use what they have learned until they understand its meaning.
I'm so teaching my kids that every color is red. That just sounds like a fun half hour till their mom whacks me over the head.

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Toddlers don't know what rhythm is, they just know they like it because they see their parents enjoying it.
This I'll be a tad more serious about. I disagree. Rhythm is a fundamental part of the universe. It's in all of us, it's part of life, and it's completely built-into all living things. From our heart-beat to the natural rhythms of ourselves, the animals and elements around us, it's not something we can escape. If it were simply a learned behavior, I just don't think that music and musical rhythm would be a part of literally every human civilization ever discovered, and even some other species.
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:56 PM
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I'm so teaching my kids that every color is red. That just sounds like a fun half hour till their mom whacks me over the head.
My mom used to tell my brother and I that smoke stacks were cloud factories....
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:11 PM
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This I'll be a tad more serious about. I disagree. Rhythm is a fundamental part of the universe. It's in all of us, it's part of life, and it's completely built-into all living things. From our heart-beat to the natural rhythms of ourselves, the animals and elements around us, it's not something we can escape. If it were simply a learned behavior, I just don't think that music and musical rhythm would be a part of literally every human civilization ever discovered, and even some other species.
I agree with what you are saying completely about rhythm being everywhere, an intrinsic part of the universe if you will. But a toddler does not know or understand that, they just know what they see others doing. Being completely surrounded by something does not give one a complete understanding. It is through learning that we understand how rhythm encompasses just about everything, from our heartbeat, to crickets chirping, to my washing machine. Only then can we theorize about it. My nephew can pound out a 4/4 beat all day long, but if you were to ask him what he just did he will reply "play drums", because no one has taught him otherwise.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:58 PM
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Damn, Tony... You just got totally schooled on music notation! Always good to learn new stuff, right?
if not for that post or I would be wandering aimlessly through life
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:28 PM
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"Semantic Fights - April 2014"
2 drummers enter...one drummer leaves...

Subconcious
Inate
Theory
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<<ding>>
FIGHT!!!
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  #72  
Old 04-21-2014, 10:09 PM
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I agree with what you are saying completely about rhythm being everywhere, an intrinsic part of the universe if you will. But a toddler does not know or understand that, they just know what they see others doing.
The solar system doesn't understand that the rhythms of it's workings dictate our sense of time and relativity on earth, it just is. For that matter, there's a lot of people walking around right now on the street who don't really "understand" the concept of the rhythm in their step. Without it, we'd fall hopelessly... But to them, it's just a matter of a sequence of events ending in forward movement. Doesn't matter. It's a part of us. There's rhythms dictating our existence in the womb, and for that matter, probably some marvin gaye dictating our placement in said womb.

I love music because it engages every part of my person and brain. Babies who have no concept of "dancing", or even music as a concept are easily swayed, lulled, or excited by music. We are creatures of habit, pattern, and repetition. We typically feel most comfortable in the presence of order and pattern. I still think it's built right in. If not from the start, over time.
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  #73  
Old 04-22-2014, 02:42 AM
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The solar system doesn't understand that the rhythms of it's workings dictate our sense of time and relativity on earth, it just is. For that matter, there's a lot of people walking around right now on the street who don't really "understand" the concept of the rhythm in their step. Without it, we'd fall hopelessly... But to them, it's just a matter of a sequence of events ending in forward movement. Doesn't matter. It's a part of us. There's rhythms dictating our existence in the womb, and for that matter, probably some marvin gaye dictating our placement in said womb.

I love music because it engages every part of my person and brain. Babies who have no concept of "dancing", or even music as a concept are easily swayed, lulled, or excited by music. We are creatures of habit, pattern, and repetition. We typically feel most comfortable in the presence of order and pattern. I still think it's built right in. If not from the start, over time.
I think we are talking about two different things here. I don't know anyone who doesn't like music, but most of the people I know don't understand it from a technical standpoint. They don't have to in order to be able to enjoy it. But in order to get more out of it than from just listening alone, one must have some form of musical knowledge.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:31 AM
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I think we are talking about two different things here. I don't know anyone who doesn't like music, but most of the people I know don't understand it from a technical standpoint. They don't have to in order to be able to enjoy it. But in order to get more out of it than from just listening alone, one must have some form of musical knowledge.
You're right. I thought you were talking about the inherent ability or lack thereof for music in people.

Wouldn't listening alone create musical knowledge, though? I know it does for me. Not exactly sure what the measuring stick for "get more out of it" is, though...
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:07 AM
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You're right. I thought you were talking about the inherent ability or lack thereof for music in people.

Wouldn't listening alone create musical knowledge, though? I know it does for me. Not exactly sure what the measuring stick for "get more out of it" is, though...
I think listening does create musical knowledge for sure. I know I have picked up some things through listening that I probably would have never figured out on my own.

The measuring stick may be short, but I think the difference is between people who say "I like that part in that song" versus the people who say "I like how they added a sweep in that part of the song", or something along those lines. It might not mean much to most people, but it sure means something to me. I appreciate the little nuances that musicians do that gets lost in the shuffle for the average listener.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:03 PM
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Ok, clearly I wasn't directing what I said towards babies or animals or nature. I'm not going to get in a debate about a babies psychological comprehension of rhythm. Yes, they're born with heart beats meaning they know rhythm, and they mimic everything around them. Not my point so I'm not going to argue over it, my point was directed towards drummers and the need of simple theory. You don't just sit down and "jam" without even understanding a 4/4 time whether you know it or not. What are you gonna do? Sit there and hit things hoping everything turns out well? Non musicians know 4/4, you all know 4/4, the guitarists know 4/4 subconsciously or not everyone knows "feels" or understands 4/4. Simple Theory. But really my main point was about the use of theory. "And as laid back as that is, music theory is here for a reason, to correctly structure and organize music." Obviously I was just pointing out that theory is a useful tool of knowledge. You're all treating theory how religious people treat science.
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:08 PM
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Ok, clearly I wasn't directing what I said towards babies or animals or nature. I'm not going to get in a debate about a babies psychological comprehension of rhythm. Yes, they're born with heart beats meaning they know rhythm, and they mimic everything around them. Not my point so I'm not going to argue over it, my point was directed towards drummers and the need of simple theory. You don't just sit down and "jam" without even understanding a 4/4 time whether you know it or not. What are you gonna do? Sit there and hit things hoping everything turns out well? Non musicians know 4/4, you all know 4/4, the guitarists know 4/4 subconsciously or not everyone knows "feels" or understands 4/4. Simple Theory. But really my main point was about the use of theory. "And as laid back as that is, music theory is here for a reason, to correctly structure and organize music." Obviously I was just pointing out that theory is a useful tool of knowledge. You're all treating theory how religious people treat science.
So then before someone actually sat down and figured out theory, songs had no structure?

People do things all the time with out knowing what they are doing. I use AutoCAD and REVIT. Do I have any idea what the computer is doing? No. I sure can design you a building or whatever you want though. People can fire a gun and hit their target without knowing anything about ballistics. People drive cars, yet how many understand the physics behind why the car works and is able to move? Knowledge can be gained by doing. We don't have to break everything down to its simplest form and gain an understanding of why it is things work like they do. Theory is useful, but not mandatory.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:02 PM
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If it's a binary system, that would be 8th/16th etc., if it's ternary - the triplet version.
I believe binary is a system of 0's and 1's. For computers which processes it as either on or off.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:06 AM
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she is repeating what she hears exactly ... nothing more
That's not what I said.

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rhythm is primal my friend and has absolutely nothing to do with music theory
I put it to you that right there is a false statement. ;) Rhythm may be innate, primal, and communicated by someone who, like your toddler, knows precisely bupkus about theory. But "absolutely nothing to do with" is categorically false. Rhythm can be, and often is, communicated by notation (for which theory is necessary) and analyzed using theoretical means. Necessary? Nope. But hardly "absolutely nothing to do with".

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music theory was created to scientifically break down rhythms and tones .... but rhythm is not theory .... rhythm is as natural as the blood in our veins

....and as a player and fully educated musician with a degree who makes his living solely by playing and teaching music .... I can confidently say that theory is not 100% necessary to make a living
Herein is the crux of the argument. It appears that every art form/medium has various camps: Those who advocate one approach or another war with those of the other camp(s). In the media with which I am most familiar - music and fiction writing - the camps can be loosely delineated into the "seat of the pants" crowd and the "scientific" crowd. Sadly, dedicated adherents of either camp presume the approaches are mutually exclusive.

I'm not accusing you of that, necessarily. As I wrote above, you can make outstanding music with no theoretical background whatever. What I am saying is that having a grounding in theory is an advantage, another part of your instrument.


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were they handing out charts in the tribes of Africa ?.... or were they just repeating what they heard since birth...... yeah the latter
Such mutual exclusivity is arbitrary and needless.

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???? I don't think anybody on DW derides theory, and that wasn't the debate at all. You've got it all twisted.
Clearly, I read it differently. Perception is subjective. You read it one way, I read it another.

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You've turned it sour, now a sort of low brow name-calling, by wrongly referring to debaters as a former application for feminine hygiene.
I didn't call anyone anything. I gave a behavior a name, because I think certain behaviors should be condemned. [shrug] I also stated that deliberately discarding things that are part of music is stupid. Because it is stupid - it's cutting off your nose to spite your face. To insist that others do so is a move which can easily be described with the hygienic pejorative above referenced. (NB: I well note no one in this thread has actually done that; therefore no name-calling took place.)

Finally, if a thing or behavior is demonstrably stupid, there is in my opinion no moral imperative to avoid calling it out as such. There is in fact a duty to call it out. To pretend otherwise is folly, even to spare feelings. Since you were kind enough to refer to me a book - which I shall seriously investigate - I return the favor in this context: The Emperor's New Clothes. =)

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People are a basically just saying you can know and play a rhythm naturally.
With which I have clearly and wholeheartedly agreed.

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Damn, Tony... You just got totally schooled on music notation! Always good to learn new stuff, right?
Sarcasm noted. =) Seriously, if I've given offense, I'm truly sorry. I was trying to explain my stance on the subject as clearly and succinctly as possible. If that was wrong, or I slipped into Pedant Mode (which often happens), I apologize.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:41 AM
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Clearly, I read it differently. Perception is subjective. You read it one way, I read it another.


I didn't call anyone anything. I gave a behavior a name, because I think certain behaviors should be condemned.
Referring to 'those who' as 'douchey' (your words) means in a sense you ARE naming THEM as 'douches'. It's just not a decent way to get on with people.
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