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  #41  
Old 04-12-2013, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldrockdrummer View Post
Emerson Lake and Palmer. Tarkus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJINce7l3P4
+1. If you discount the over-arrangement and overplaying, the ugly bits and goofy nerd robot fighting theme Tarkus has some fabulous riffs, melodies, passages, musical ideas and musicianship that I still love - with no embarrassment.

There ya go - out and proud! :)
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  #42  
Old 04-12-2013, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
+1. If you discount the over-arrangement and overplaying, the ugly bits and goofy nerd robot fighting theme Tarkus has some fabulous riffs, melodies, passages, musical ideas and musicianship that I still love - with no embarrassment.

There ya go - out and proud! :)
I'm not sure we can be friends any more!
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  #43  
Old 04-12-2013, 06:56 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

...

Hmmmm.. not sure how i feel about the premise of this thread....

Maybe I've got this wrong, but the subtext here seems to want to put all music through some kind of filteration system and fit a broad format that suggests, song- melody-oriented structures which are simple enough to be absorbed and enjoyed by as many people as possible.

It implies that anything outside of that is self indulgent. ( playing for yourself, playing for a small group of serious listeners/other musicians )

Personally I couldnt care for smooth jazz but I think there is a role for 'all' music that ever been made and most of it is beyond judgement, if it moved even one listener to feel something special at the time.

A lot of music like jazz, prog, fusion and possibly other genres that Im not familiar with are tapping into a very basic & primal human need to push boundaries. Climb Everest - Explore outer space- Play a diminished scale riff with 3/8/11/4,6/8..!!! To choke that musical urge is to put limits on innovation.

Admitted, not much of this will fill a night club and it doesnt - but I've seen OZ Noy play at the Bitter End a few times, and I see people who go up to him after the gig have tears in their eyes.. I've seen moms who I'm certain didnt get a bar of what he played that night, tell him " My son has stopped playing the guitar... I wish he could have heard you tonight.."

Does that music withstand the test of time? Perhaps not - you wont hear it on the radio or too many other places, but then does everything need to be on the radio? Fill night clubs? Be successful or viable commerically?

I remember an interview on CNN way back, with the Queen of the little Island nation of Tonga - a very elegant lady who probably weighed 350 pounds. Wolf Blitzer asked her what she did with her time and she said....." I just be."

....

To answer your question: Jeff Lorber, Water Sign. Jeff did a lot of Porno tracks back in the 80s too. Cant stand the stuff now, but man, I remember how long I waited to borrow that album from my friend and wore out his cassette tape...remember those ; )

...

PS- I just walked out of an elevater that was playing hey Jude.

Last edited by aydee; 04-12-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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  #44  
Old 04-12-2013, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Originally Posted by BacteriumFendYoke View Post
I'm not sure we can be friends any more!
Oh come on, D, even you have to admit that some of the passages in Tarkus are great! :)

You may have little patience for bombastic rock wankery in the same way as Kim Jong Un has little patience for the US but at least it's not "Baby, I love you" or "Baby, you're leaving me" or "Baby, I wanna do it" or "Baby, it's over" or "Baby, you're/I'm/it's sexy" or "Babe, you're a bad person" or "Baby, you have lovely eyes" or "Babe, let's get down and boogie" or ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Personally I couldnt care for smooth jazz but I think there is a role for 'all' music that ever been made and most of it is beyond judgement, if it moved even one listener to feel something special at the time.
Yup. We can just pick what we want from the musical smorgasbord. I'm not one to judge someone who chose the pickled herring (much) ... it's a dirty job but ...
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  #45  
Old 04-12-2013, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...

Hmmmm.. not sure how i feel about the premise of this thread....

Maybe I've got this wrong, but the subtext here seems to want to put all music through some kind of filteration system and fit a broad format that suggests, song- melody-oriented structures which are simple enough to be absorbed and enjoyed by as many people as possible.

It implies that anything outside of that is self indulgent. ( playing for yourself, playing for a small group of serious listeners/other musicians )

Personally I couldnt care for smooth jazz but I think there is a role for 'all' music that ever been made and most of it is beyond judgement, if it moved even one listener to feel something special at the time.

A lot of music like jazz, prog, fusion and possibly other genres that Im not familiar with are tapping into a very basic & primal human need to push boundaries. Climb Everest - Explore outer space- Play a diminished scale riff with 3/8/11/4,6/8..!!! To choke that musical urge is to put limits on innovation.

Admitted, not much of this will fill a night club and it doesnt - but I've seen OZ Noy play at the Bitter End a few times, and I see people who go up to him after the gig have tears in their eyes.. I've seen moms who I'm certain didnt get a bar of what he played that night, tell him " My son has stopped playing the guitar... I wish he could have heard you tonight.."

Does that music withstand the test of time? Perhaps not - you wont hear it on the radio or too many other places, but then does everything need to be on the radio? Fill night clubs? Be successful or viable commerically?

I remember an interview on CNN way back, with the Queen of the little Island nation of Tonga - a very elegant lady who probably weighed 350 pounds. Wolf Blitzer asked her what she did with her time and she said....." I just be."

....

To answer your question: Jeff Lorber Water Sign. Jeff did a lot of Porno tracks back in the 80s too. Cant stand the stuff now, but man, I remember how long I waited to borrow that album from my friend and wore out his cassette tape...remember those ; )

...

PS- I just walked out of an elevater that was playing hey Jude.
I'm being controversial ;)

...............................................
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  #46  
Old 04-12-2013, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
... at least it's not "Baby, I love you" or "Baby, you're leaving me" or "Baby, I wanna do it" or "Baby, it's over" or "Baby, you're/I'm/it's sexy" or "Babe, you're a bad person" or "Baby, you have lovely eyes" or "Babe, let's get down and boogie" or ...
.
or just baby-baby-baby-b-baby, b-b-b- baby, baby, baby ba-ba-babay.......
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  #47  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...

Hmmmm.. not sure how i feel about the premise of this thread....

Maybe I've got this wrong, but the subtext here seems to want to put all music through some kind of filteration system and fit a broad format that suggests, song- melody-oriented structures which are simple enough to be absorbed and enjoyed by as many people as possible.

It implies that anything outside of that is self indulgent. ( playing for yourself, playing for a small group of serious listeners/other musicians )

Personally I couldnt care for smooth jazz but I think there is a role for 'all' music that ever been made and most of it is beyond judgement, if it moved even one listener to feel something special at the time.

A lot of music like jazz, prog, fusion and possibly other genres that Im not familiar with are tapping into a very basic & primal human need to push boundaries. Climb Everest - Explore outer space- Play a diminished scale riff with 3/8/11/4,6/8..!!! To choke that musical urge is to put limits on innovation.

Admitted, not much of this will fill a night club and it doesnt - but I've seen OZ Noy play at the Bitter End a few times, and I see people who go up to him after the gig have tears in their eyes.. I've seen moms who I'm certain didnt get a bar of what he played that night, tell him " My son has stopped playing the guitar... I wish he could have heard you tonight.."

Does that music withstand the test of time? Perhaps not - you wont hear it on the radio or too many other places, but then does everything need to be on the radio? Fill night clubs? Be successful or viable commerically?

I remember an interview on CNN way back, with the Queen of the little Island nation of Tonga - a very elegant lady who probably weighed 350 pounds. Wolf Blitzer asked her what she did with her time and she said....." I just be."

....

To answer your question: Jeff Lorber, Water Sign. Jeff did a lot of Porno tracks back in the 80s too. Cant stand the stuff now, but man, I remember how long I waited to borrow that album from my friend and wore out his cassette tape...remember those ; )

...

PS- I just walked out of an elevater that was playing hey Jude.
Agreed...

Since none of us are remotely capable of playing at the level of the majority being dissed (and I'm talking pocket) i.e. - Weckl, GRP, etc.... I take nothing stated seriously anyways.

It's all about different strokes for different folks. If you don't dig a certain style of music or player - don't. We all have our likes and dislikes. We can all coexist.

Last edited by dmacc; 04-12-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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  #48  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Prog/fusion stuff I admit I still like today:

Jeff Beck - Blow By Blow & Wired

Al Di Meola- Elegant Gypsy

Jean Luc Ponty- Cosmic Messenger

Crack The Sky - Safety In Numbers

Triumvirat - Illusions On A Double Dimple

Nektar - Down To Earth

Tony Williams Lifetime - Emergency

Stanley Clarke - School Days

Does all of this make me a bad person? Or, perhaps just old as dirt? :-)
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  #49  
Old 04-12-2013, 11:58 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

...


Just read through all the posts and what seems to be emerging as a theme, is that instrumental music is lesser music somehow.
Songs ( sung ) that are hummable, memorable are more meaningful and have longer lasting value in our psyches.

This might be true in some ways because most instruments do try and mimic the voice, but speaking from my personal experience, the first time I heard Donna Lee, it blew my mind for a lifetime - and I couldnt hum the first 3 notes if I tried,...

... or Giant Steps or Miles' Bitches Brew, or Weather Report's Black Market.. all of it a maze of complex harmonies and polyrhythms with little chance of hummable recall.

These were all life changing moments in quite the same way for me as the Bealtes' Come Together or the Allman Bros' Whipping Post etc etc..

Like dmacc said, different strokes ( or a horse of a different feather )...

Btw, its Herbie Hancock's birthday today and heres is cool quote from the man:

"I don't look at music from the standpoint of being a musician; I look at it from the standpoint of being a human being."

Herbie Hancock


I

Last edited by aydee; 04-12-2013 at 12:22 PM.
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  #50  
Old 04-12-2013, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Just read through all the posts and what seems to be emerging as a theme, is that instrumental music is lesser music somehow.
I disagree. I read through it and feel that a lot of us are connected in that we have a strange love for instrumental, self-aggrandizing, hum-free music. But, a little too much of anything will surely drive one batty...
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  #51  
Old 04-12-2013, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Originally Posted by StickIt View Post
I disagree. I read through it and feel that a lot of us are connected in that we have a strange love for instrumental, self-aggrandizing, hum-free music. But, a little too much of anything will surely drive one batty...
We do have this strange love as you put it, but I dont understand why we beat ourselves up about it, and put up this thing called 'song' up on a pedestal like its a template to be followed. Anything outside of that is a forbidden or cheesy pleasure ..like going on a rendezvous with Monica Lewinsky.... to be denied in case anybody asks...

DIsagree with the self aggrandizment accusation. That could happen in any kind of music. Can think of examples in all genres actually...

Anyhow, I guess this thread is like music itself.. different people see things differently at different times.

...

Last edited by aydee; 04-12-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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  #52  
Old 04-12-2013, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
or just baby-baby-baby-b-baby, b-b-b- baby, baby, baby ba-ba-babay.......
Thanks Abe. Forgot that one.

D, I sympathise with this: "none of us are remotely capable of playing at the level of the majority being dissed". As I bought more and more mostly dull recordings from following the threads of my favourite drummers it got me wondering about the disctinct skills of facility - being able to execute whatever part you want - and creativity ... thinking of interesting and original things to execute.

I found it odd that musicians who could play almost anything would choose to write album material that was all head-solos-head, and the heads didn't even have much charm, melodic or harmonic invention or interest and seemed to just be a device for launching flashy solos. It seems to me that they made better sidemen than band leaders, like highly talented operatives who were less effective when promoted to management.

Which reminds me, Larry Carlton was another one :) though there's one track on the album I still like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHk6YhTS8kY
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  #53  
Old 04-12-2013, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

I think, in most ways, this discussion is about two distinct parts of the brain and the way we process information. Music is fundamentally a form of communication. As humans, we process things on many levels, from the higher-reasoning cerebral cortex to the old-brain limbic system. Now, I'm not an expert on much of anything, but it seems the different types of music being discussed create responses or are processed in different ways.

Hummable, memorable tunes are that way for a reason - they use familiar sounds, melodic structures and rhythms. I suspect that is a combination of genetic response and cultural learning. Music that has to be interpreted at a higher level probably doesn't resonate with the same type of emotion as the more common stuff, unless we have become familiar with it and emotionally involved somehow.

I kind of think one stimulates us emotionally and viscerally while the other stimulates us intellectually. I don't make any kind of judgement about which is better. I have no problem with either. It all depends on what role music plays for us as individuals.

Oh, and I guess I have sinned a little bit - I like Rush and Yes. ;-)
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  #54  
Old 04-12-2013, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Thanks Abe. Forgot that one.

D, I sympathise with this: "none of us are remotely capable of playing at the level of the majority being dissed". As I bought more and more mostly dull recordings from following the threads of my favourite drummers it got me wondering about the disctinct skills of facility - being able to execute whatever part you want - and creativity ... thinking of interesting and original things to execute.

I found it odd that musicians who could play almost anything would choose to write album material that was all head-solos-head, and the heads didn't even have much charm, melodic or harmonic invention or interest and seemed to just be a device for launching flashy solos. It seems to me that they made better sidemen than band leaders, like highly talented operatives who were less effective when promoted to management.

Which reminds me, Larry Carlton was another one :) though there's one track on the album I still like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHk6YhTS8kY
Good point, G. Raises a whole new debate on writing versus playing..and the skills required thereof.

Agree, a lot of Cheezo Jazz was written as a poor excuse to launch into blazing solos. Got tiring real quick. But then so did some much- too- long &overgrooved R&B, Gospel's vocal acrobatics, Metal's obssession with speed for the sake of speed, Sinatra's golden voice talking us through upteen songs...


...


Quote:
Originally Posted by digibird View Post
Prog/fusion stuff I admit I still like today....Does all of this make me a bad person
Yes it does!
And now you need to whip yourself with a guitar strap every tuesday and listen to Fleetwood Mac everyday for the rest of this month.

...

Last edited by aydee; 04-12-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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  #55  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...

Hmmmm.. not sure how i feel about the premise of this thread....

Maybe I've got this wrong, but the subtext here seems to want to put all music through some kind of filteration system and fit a broad format that suggests, song- melody-oriented structures which are simple enough to be absorbed and enjoyed by as many people as possible.

It implies that anything outside of that is self indulgent. ( playing for yourself, playing for a small group of serious listeners/other musicians )

Personally I couldnt care for smooth jazz but I think there is a role for 'all' music that ever been made and most of it is beyond judgement, if it moved even one listener to feel something special at the time.

A lot of music like jazz, prog, fusion and possibly other genres that Im not familiar with are tapping into a very basic & primal human need to push boundaries. Climb Everest - Explore outer space- Play a diminished scale riff with 3/8/11/4,6/8..!!! To choke that musical urge is to put limits on innovation.

.
I didn't take it that way.

Many of may favorite bands play complex music with a high level of musicianship.

The premise was not all complex music = bad..

The premise was getting suckered into buying albums ONLY because of the players involved and not because of the music itself.
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  #56  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
I didn't take it that way. The premise was getting suckered into buying albums ONLY because of the players involved and not because of the music itself.
I guess I got it wrong, then.

( I'd buy an album just to hear what a favorite player of mine was into at the time. And wouldnt that apply to all music/albums? )


...

Last edited by aydee; 04-12-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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  #57  
Old 04-12-2013, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Good point, G. Raises a whole new debate on writing versus playing..and the skills required thereof.
Some sidemen should remain sidemen :)

Some drummers have taken the "solo" career or made a "solo" album with strong writing skills and produced amazing music, Billy Cobham, Tony Williams or Phil Collins comes to my mind.

But others "big" names shouldn't have bothered at all IMO, I remember being all excited about Vinnie Colaiuta's solo effort, but I was hugely disappointed at the exception of one track, same for Omar Hakim.

Dave Weckl did some too, a fest of chops and licks nicely laid down, but musically, it's pretty empty, once you listen to the flashy playing, you'll probably never listen to the CD again.

I have to say, back then Billy Cobham blew me away with "Spectrum" (minus the awful solo intros), I still listen to this iconic album nowadays, Red Baron and Stratus are still among my favorite fusion pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Yes it does!
And now you need to whip yourself with a guitar strap every tuesday and listen to Fleetwood Mac everyday for the rest of this month.
We don't talk a lot about Mick Fleetwood on the forum, a damn fine drummer...
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  #58  
Old 04-12-2013, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post

I have to say, back then Billy Cobham blew me away with "Spectrum" (minus the awful solo intros), I still listen to this iconic album nowadays, Red Baron and Stratus are still among my favorite fusion pieces.



We don't talk a lot about Mick Fleetwood on the forum, a damn fine drummer...
Those are two tunes on our current set list, Henri. ( thankfully for all involved, I play a 4 bar solo at the end of stratus... )

Yeah, Mick was probably the pre coursor to the Steve Jordan/Abe Laboriel school of drumming. Killer time n' feel.
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  #59  
Old 04-12-2013, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad About Drums View Post
Some sidemen should remain sidemen :)
................
But others "big" names shouldn't have bothered at all IMO, I remember being all excited about Vinnie Colaiuta's solo effort, but I was hugely disappointed at the exception of one track, same for Omar Hakim.......
...
I never heard Omar's but I tend to agree with you on Vinnie's. Left me wondering why....

Gadd's stuff was all about laying it down though many people hated it that I've come into contact with.
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  #60  
Old 04-13-2013, 01:24 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

You know, I apologize for instigating the prattle, but I think some of us are feeling better now. In fact, if we let this thread progress, it will be very much a "song vs chops" argument sooner or later.

I, for one, am going to play some Beatles tunes on my guitar for a while (badly) and focus on the music ;)
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  #61  
Old 04-13-2013, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
+1. If you discount the over-arrangement and overplaying, the ugly bits and goofy nerd robot fighting theme Tarkus has some fabulous riffs, melodies, passages, musical ideas and musicianship that I still love - with no embarrassment.

There ya go - out and proud! :)
I admit I still get that cd out and listen to it now and then.
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  #62  
Old 04-13-2013, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

I still enjoy my Elektric Band and Weckl albums so I admit to nothing!
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  #63  
Old 04-13-2013, 02:01 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

" Yesterday,
my love of Prog. Rock was, I think it's safe to say:
a little secret that I'd tucked away;
Oh, how I long for yesterday".

Breaks into 10 minute drum solo.
Back into the song,[ though not the one we started ],
Decides it's time for pan pipes.
Hmm, just got time to re-introduce the theme with the grand orchestral sweeps of that ruddy great orchestra we hired, [who, by the way were looking pretty bored up until now].
Time for one more drum solo?
Guitarists and keyboard players are starting to look mutinous..........
All right lads, 5 minutes each.And not a second longer.
Now where the hell did I put whoping great big mallet...............
Ah, there it is.
We are going to climax. J.Arthur Rank style.

Wow.
Was that as good for you as it was for me? [ I don't really care, by the way] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #64  
Old 04-13-2013, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by digibird View Post
Prog/fusion stuff I admit I still like today:

Jeff Beck - Blow By Blow & Wired

Al Di Meola- Elegant Gypsy

Jean Luc Ponty- Cosmic Messenger

Crack The Sky - Safety In Numbers

Triumvirat - Illusions On A Double Dimple

Nektar - Down To Earth

Tony Williams Lifetime - Emergency

Stanley Clarke - School Days

Does all of this make me a bad person? Or, perhaps just old as dirt? :-)
Wow, another Nektar fan, I have been looking for you. I think you were there in Luna Park, Bronx in 1975 for the Tab in the Ocean and Remember the Future tour. Big Pink Mohawk, right?
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  #65  
Old 04-13-2013, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Yes it does!
And now you need to whip yourself with a guitar strap every tuesday and listen to Fleetwood Mac everyday for the rest of this month.
...
Okay :-) That's funny! But I'll gladly listen to Fleetwood Mac every day - I love that stuff. I'm not just a proggy fusion guy - I think growing up in the '60's with AM radio and the huge diversity of pop and rock music made me love all kinds of stuff, and I still do. Radio programming used not to be so targeted and I loved it all as a kid.
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  #66  
Old 04-13-2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by aaajn View Post
Wow, another Nektar fan, I have been looking for you. I think you were there in Luna Park, Bronx in 1975 for the Tab in the Ocean and Remember the Future tour. Big Pink Mohawk, right?
I wish I had seen that show, but, no, that wasn't me :-). In '75 I had a huge, curly, white-guy 'fro-style hair-don't. Nektar fans do seem to be a rather small group, though, you are right.
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  #67  
Old 04-13-2013, 07:36 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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Okay :-) That's funny! But I'll gladly listen to Fleetwood Mac every day - I love that stuff. I'm not just a proggy fusion guy - I think growing up in the '60's with AM radio and the huge diversity of pop and rock music made me love all kinds of stuff, and I still do. Radio programming used not to be so targeted and I loved it all as a kid.
I get that.I'm a 70s kid that also got exposed to all kinds of stuff..and consider myself lucky to find appreciation in many kinds of music.. And of course, one can run into a Kraft single anywhere ...
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:22 AM
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" Yesterday,
my love of Prog. Rock was, I think it's safe to say:
a little secret that I'd tucked away;
Oh, how I long for yesterday".

Breaks into 10 minute drum solo.
Back into the song,[ though not the one we started ],
Decides it's time for pan pipes.
Hmm, just got time to re-introduce the theme with the grand orchestral sweeps of that ruddy great orchestra we hired, [who, by the way were looking pretty bored up until now].
Time for one more drum solo?
Guitarists and keyboard players are starting to look mutinous..........
All right lads, 5 minutes each.And not a second longer.
Now where the hell did I put whoping great big mallet...............
Ah, there it is.
We are going to climax. J.Arthur Rank style.

Wow.
Was that as good for you as it was for me? [ I don't really care, by the way] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What you've just described is a Keith Jarret concert.
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  #69  
Old 04-13-2013, 09:26 AM
5678...procrastinate 5678...procrastinate is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Hey, what about that Mike Oldfield and his "Tubular Balls" ?
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:28 AM
5678...procrastinate 5678...procrastinate is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

And countdown has begun:
5,4,3,2,1......................................... ...
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  #71  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:19 AM
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Hey, what about that Mike Oldfield and his "Tubular Balls" ?
LOL!!!
. . .
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:30 AM
5678...procrastinate 5678...procrastinate is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

And the winner is:
MAD



By the way, excellent graphics. Well played that man!

Last edited by 5678...procrastinate; 04-13-2013 at 10:33 AM. Reason: credit where credits due!
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

Excellent graphic, H :)

Here's a fieryMike Oldfield's solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocdkroq3reQ#t=2m45s

Pierre Moerlen's drum solo afterwards is even better!
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:58 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Excellent graphic, H :)

Here's a fieryMike Oldfield's solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocdkroq3reQ#t=2m45s

Pierre Moerlen's drum solo afterwards is even better!
This is it! There's just a vaccum beyond..


..
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:22 PM
Toolate Toolate is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

So Bo, is this thread officially opening up beyond the jazz genre? Because if so, I (and I am sure others) have some confessions to make. Might be an overload if you do allow it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:27 PM
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So Bo, is this thread officially opening up beyond the jazz genre? Because if so, I (and I am sure others) have some confessions to make. Might be an overload if you do allow it.
Oh sure! I wasn't limiting it just to the jazz idiom either. Just because there's structure doesn't mean there's no endless noodling. ;)
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:33 PM
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So Bo, is this thread officially opening up beyond the jazz genre? Because if so, I (and I am sure others) have some confessions to make. Might be an overload if you do allow it.
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Oh sure! I wasn't limiting it just to the jazz idiom either. Just because there's structure doesn't mean there's no endless noodling. ;)
No METAL reference in this thread please, I know it's not my thread, it's Mo's thread, but please... spare us with the METAL bits, all other style are fine :)
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

I get what Bo is talking about it. It's not a bash on chops, or on jazz or even fusion.

When I was a teenager, I worked part time in this drum shop. The internet wasn't invented yet, so if drummers wanted to come hang with other drummers, they'd come down to the shop instead of on a forum like this one. And the conversations often turned to discussions about "how you heard this album, or that album...." with discussions of Cobham, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Chick Corea. And it always seemed implied in the conversation that if you didn't listen to this stuff, and weren't hip to, you somehow weren't a serious drummer.

And the internet doesn't exist to hear this stuff online. You're listening to what ever is on the radio/mtv or get through friends.

OK, so you go track all that down. Cool. Now you're up to speed.

Now, you don't want to fall behind again, so now you want stay on top of the conversation. This new kid Weckl has an album coming out? Better get on that.
Bozzio has some new obscure project? Better grab it.
A well known sideman has a solo album? Better try to check it out.
A drummer you admire mentioned this other album he bought? Try and track it down.

Of course, you can't buy it all because albums aren't cheap. But you make an effort.

And it's not about trying to appear hip, or follow the crowd, but the feeling that this is part of how one becomes a successful drummer.

Years go buy, and you realize you have dozens and dozens of albums that you've listened to maybe once or twice. Others maybe you've listen to 5 times, but can't recall a single tune off of it. And you realize you've spent a lot of money and time listening albums you don't like that you only bought because a name player was on it as if you were going to magically be a better drummer by listening to it.

Which doesn't mean there aren't good jazz/fusion/prog albums, because there are plenty of great albums that just happen to be in the jazz or fusion or prog genres.

Kids today don't have this issue. They can use youtube/spoitfy/whatever to sample all this stuff online. They can watch a youtube video and like it, digest it, or not and move on.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:15 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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So Bo, is this thread officially opening up beyond the jazz genre? Because if so, I (and I am sure others) have some confessions to make. Might be an overload if you do allow it.
Sure hope so cause I already stated how much I'm unable to tolerate personally much of the rock/pop stuff that's so often played. I find it to be completely unsustainable to me to listen to / watch / play or observe. It's undoubtedly the music that many of the people here (including Bo) claim is so great and musically satisfying.

Am I saying it's no good? Heck no - it's historical. I could just give to rips about any of it.

Likewise - these same people would most likely rather have their arm sawed off than listen to what I do.

Again - there's no winner or loser here - that's for kids. It's all opinion and, like armpits, everyone has their own.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Admit it and be cleansed!

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By the way, excellent graphics. Well played that man!
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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Excellent graphic, H :)
Thanks :) It was easy to pull out TBH, I only needed the inspiration, lol.

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Originally Posted by Anon La Ply View Post
Here's a fieryMike Oldfield's solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocdkroq3reQ#t=2m45s
Mike's instantly recognizable, he has that sound and style that so particular to his playing, I like that link Grea.

I'm a fan of Mike Oldfield, I have almost all his albums, except one or two, he's an extremely accomplished musician and song writer, but for me, the original 1973 "Tubular Bells" is THE masterpiece he ever created, he has done many long pieces on almost all his albums, but TB is very special, the brilliance and innovation of that recording is mind blowing, and he plays everything on it except the drums and the choir, not bad as a first album, the only album which comes close as the original TB is "Tubular Bells 2", which is basically a re-worked version of the original, it's almost as good as the first one, almost... :)
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