DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Electronic Drums

Electronic Drums All about Electronic Drums

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:49 PM
Macarina Macarina is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 525
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

I don't know why more Pro's don't use E-drums live except maybe because of the 'Look' on stage?

Off the top of my head, the recent 2018 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, David Robinson is using an entire Roland kit... Rubber cymbals and all.

https://youtu.be/FPBQKmV1nN8

and as some have mentioned... hybrid's are used quite a bit.

https://youtu.be/6w5KCf8hXvo
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:05 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,698
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud7h4 View Post
I play an acoustic kit and a Roland TD-30. I can't believe they're even being compared in this thread. Why would I choose to play drums rather than an e-kit? Because I love drums. That's the reason I play in the first place.
I play the TD30 at home because I need to play quietly.

I can't imagine voluntarily giving up drums for edrums. Edrums are the equivalent of a sex doll.
See? Like I said, the MOST expensive practice pad kit EVER!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:08 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,698
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davor View Post
The UB40 drummer (Jimmy brown?) was still using a roland e-kit in the 2000s. I've watched some of their concerts online and I think his kit and sound is brilliant. Who cares if ts not acoustic! If it fits the music/style then why not.
Pat Mastellotto also used Roland V-Drums back in 2000 with King Crimson for one tour and recording (The ConstrucKtion of Light album), and although it sounded good (on both the studio and live recordings), when the next album and tour came out he had switched back to his DW's and a few pads, and many of those same songs they played live from the Construction album live sounded so much better on that recording - all of a sudden you could hear air in the drums. It was like a night and day comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:09 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,974
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bud7h4 View Post
I can't imagine voluntarily giving up drums for edrums. Edrums are the equivalent of a sex doll.
And just like with drums, if you want to save money you can go out and buy an old used one!
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:10 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,974
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Pat Mastellotto also used Roland V-Drums back in 2000 with King Crimson for one tour and recording (The ConstrucKtion of Light album), and although it sounded good (on both the studio and live recordings), when the next album and tour came out he had switched back to his DW's and a few pads, and many of those same songs they played live from the Construction album live sounded so much better on that recording - all of a sudden you could hear air in the drums. It was like a night and day comparison.
Yea, I listened to the Cars clip posted above and it was sorta cringey in my opinion... That snare sounded so hollow and one dimensional and, well, fake.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:31 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is online now
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,800
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Just off the top of my head...They sound too sterile. It's almost impossible to impart any personality to them via sound tones. They don't look good. They feel even worse. They are too complicated. They mask a drummers true touch. The drummer can only emote maybe 1% of what's possible on acoustic drums. You can't pull sounds out, you can only activate triggers, barf. Ya know when one person plays an A kit, and then another person plays the same A kit, there are many differences, subtle and otherwise? I'm pretty sure that's not the case with E drums. They homogenize drum sounds. They remove the individuality of the sound a drummer can pull from the drums. The dynamics are severely compromised.

Then the bad side...

OMG the cymbals. 'Nuff said. I'm not playing actual drums, I'm playing rubber pads or mesh heads. Why not just do drum sounds on a keyboard? That's much easier to set up. Plus you have 10 digits compared to 4 limbs. Classic example of taking something that was dead simple and worked great, (save for drummers lack of volume control ability) and complicating it, for 1% of the functionality that I previously enjoyed. Yea, that sounds like a good idea, let's go with that. I like a challenge!

They have their uses. Get them the hell off my stage though.
__________________
Sucking all the fun right out of life...
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:06 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,974
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
You can't pull sounds out, you can only activate triggers, barf.
This is why the "electric guitars are the same" argument doesn't fly. Huge difference between generating a tone with vibration and triggering an electronic sound to play.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:13 PM
Mastiff's Avatar
Mastiff Mastiff is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 187
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
This is why the "electric guitars are the same" argument doesn't fly. Huge difference between generating a tone with vibration and triggering an electronic sound to play.
I'm not disagreeing with the essence of what you are saying, but isn't it a bit more than a trigger, in that how hard the pad is hit also goes into the mix? I'm not sure where the state of technology is, but changing the nature of the sound as a function of how hard you hit is certainly possible. Even my older Roland kit seemed to have some of this on the snare in particular.

I'm surprised there isn't some sort of pickup equivalent that senses the resonance of a mesh head or something...
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-15-2018, 10:35 PM
MrPockets's Avatar
MrPockets MrPockets is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 870
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macarina View Post
I don't know why more Pro's don't use E-drums live except maybe because of the 'Look' on stage?

Off the top of my head, the recent 2018 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, David Robinson is using an entire Roland kit... Rubber cymbals and all.

https://youtu.be/FPBQKmV1nN8

and as some have mentioned... hybrid's are used quite a bit.

https://youtu.be/6w5KCf8hXvo
So for your examples you choose 2 bands that use lots of electronics in their songs and are classified as new wave (Cars) and electronica (Muse)...

Maybe when Taylor Hawkins, Dave Weckl, David Garibaldi, Gordie Knudtson, Abe Laborial switch to all electronic drums there would be an argument for it.
__________________
Drum is fum
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:02 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,974
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastiff View Post
I'm not disagreeing with the essence of what you are saying, but isn't it a bit more than a trigger, in that how hard the pad is hit also goes into the mix? I'm not sure where the state of technology is, but changing the nature of the sound as a function of how hard you hit is certainly possible. Even my older Roland kit seemed to have some of this on the snare in particular.

I'm surprised there isn't some sort of pickup equivalent that senses the resonance of a mesh head or something...
Yea, sure... E-drums use fake "levels" of dynamics. I think my roland kit has 127 "levels" of triggering. The harder you hit it the more electrical charge is generated by the trigger which then gets interpreted by the module.

In most cases, though, it's just a volume thing... On the very top end kits up in the multi-thousand dollar range the modules try to get fancy and even sense where on the pad you've hit trying to emulate how a drum sounds different depending on where and how you hit it... But it falls way, way short of anything even close to the expressiveness of a drum or cymbal, and as mentioned, you're really just triggering a computer to play a sound. Not generating the sound yourself or through the instrument you're playing.

In theory what you're getting at with the "pickup" drums could maybe be possible... I think you'd need a sort of head with a layer or makeup that was magnetic and in theory you could put some type of pickup setup in and amplify it... I think it would just be even more complicated, expensive and possibly even limiting. Not to mention, I have no idea what it would sound like... Probably not a dual drum membrane like a real one.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:04 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,250
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
This is why the "electric guitars are the same" argument doesn't fly. Huge difference between generating a tone with vibration and triggering an electronic sound to play.
Yeah. Unless using certain sounds or crappy modeling it's pretty much an acoustic instrument with wider dynamic range. Not the same thing at all. The expression; "It's all in the hands" exists for a reason.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:06 PM
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 265
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
..I guess this thread has become a Electric Vs Acoustic thread again. Sorry. Maybe we should lock it - this has certainly been argued to death..

Lol..

At this moment this forum has 81.528 threads..What is not 'argued to death'..?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPockets View Post
..for your examples you choose 2 bands that use lots of electronics in their songs and are classified as new wave (Cars) and electronica (Muse)...

Maybe when Taylor Hawkins, Dave Weckl, David Garibaldi, Gordie Knudtson, Abe Laborial switch to all electronic drums there would be an argument for it..

Since when is Muse classified as an electronica act..?

But besides that, there is more music in this world than only the sorts with a drumset, guitar and bass player..Those are actually getting less and less, allready 15 years..

Not something i wish for btw, since i will always be more an 'acoustic' guy, but in the same time i am definitely not closing the ears for some nice hiphop, electronic, ambient, etc..
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:14 PM
MrPockets's Avatar
MrPockets MrPockets is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 870
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Since when is Muse classified as an electronica act..?

But besides that, there is more music in this world than only the sorts with a drumset, guitar and bass player..Those are actually getting less and less, allready 15 years..

Not something i wish for btw, since i will always be more an 'acoustic' guy, but in the same time i am definitely not closing the ears for some nice hiphop, electronic, ambient, etc..

Wikipedia has that listed under the band's genres among many others.

Again context matters was my main point. I'm not gonna get all fussy if I see a band using lots of electronics and has a roland on stage.

I do however doubt accoustic drums will fall off the map for use any time soon.
__________________
Drum is fum
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:22 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,250
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

There is a place for it.

Some gigs require it.

It could also probably be done better if the industry really wanted to take the leap. A real experience through headphones at the lowest outside noise levels would be much welcome.

For me it would mostly be a practice thing. A small bop kit would be enough. Just do it right.

Live I'd be able to do whatever I wanted with Handsonic, SDP, Wavedrum etc... with a few add ons.

If it's just for a few simple things iPad and DrumJam app does the job. Really. It's pretty amazing.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:31 PM
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 265
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPockets View Post
..I do however doubt accoustic drums will fall off the map for use any time soon..

Ofcourse not, they will be there for sure for another 100 years, but the part of a acoustic drumset in the music business where the money is made, will only get less and less..

If i would start a music store at this moment (which are allready almost not there anymore) and i would have the choice to focus on selling DJ-sets or selling drumsets, then i think my choice would quickly be made..

If i would want to earn something that is..
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-18-2018, 12:23 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,250
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

The majority of drummers still play acoustic drums.

Apart from some modern music, there are certain spaces like hotel lounges and artists,because it's not important to them, that just prefer that solution.

For most it's and added luxury for home practice.

I generally adivse a student to get an acoustic kit if they can, but often they can't because of how/where they live. Some of hese may not have been able to get anything at all in the past. It's electronic or nothing.

There are more people learning drums now that ever.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-18-2018, 04:50 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,974
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Arne makes an interesting point.

Usually the venues that require e-kits don't really care about music and it's a necessary evil or after-thought. Like Casino floors. "We don't want you to distract from the gaming! Here, use this nice electronic kit so we can make it that you're able to hear the clacking of stick on pad over the PA!"

Another reason I hate them. (yet own several sets...)
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:26 PM
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 265
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
..There are more people learning drums now that ever..

Is that really your experience when looking back on the past decades..?

Because i am having the impression that in my country is definitely not like that..
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old Yesterday, 03:03 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,250
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskoolsoul View Post
Is that really your experience when looking back on the past decades..?

Because i am having the impression that in my country is definitely not like that..
Yes. The arenas have simply changed. It looks differet.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old Yesterday, 03:26 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is online now
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,800
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

I find it curious that electricity took guitars to a whole other, better level, and electricity applied to drums did exactly the opposite.

It's funny how there are no electric horns or woodwinds. Why is that? Maybe because some things can't be improved upon any more?
__________________
Sucking all the fun right out of life...
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old Yesterday, 04:16 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,250
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I find it curious that electricity took guitars to a whole other, better level, and electricity applied to drums did exactly the opposite.
Electric guitar is not the same as electronic guitar.

Electronic pickups, midi and sound modules for guitar is highly debatable if they have gained much ground at all. Synthaxe died early. Stuff like the VG-88 stuff didn't go far. It's only amp modeling at this pount, which is used for the same reason as triggers and/or electronic drums.


Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
It's funny how there are no electric horns or woodwinds.
There is.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old Yesterday, 04:28 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is online now
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 19,800
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post

There is.
As soon as I wrote that, I knew someone would surface to correct me. It's true I still never heard of an electronic horn or woodwind. I believe you when you say they exist. I just never saw one before. Could you elaborate?
__________________
Sucking all the fun right out of life...
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old Yesterday, 05:08 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,250
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
As soon as I wrote that, I knew someone would surface to correct me. It's true I still never heard of an electronic horn or woodwind. I believe you when you say they exist. I just never saw one before. Could you elaborate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81_Artb1qv8

https://www.yamaha.com/en/about/design/synapses/id_006/

https://www.gear4music.no/no/Keyboar...SABEgJlb_D_BwE
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old Yesterday, 05:29 PM
fl.tom fl.tom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 83
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
As soon as I wrote that, I knew someone would surface to correct me. It's true I still never heard of an electronic horn or woodwind. I believe you when you say they exist. I just never saw one before. Could you elaborate?
A buddy who was primarily a trombonist used to play an EVI or EWI (electronic valve/wind instrument) in a local fusion band in the late-80s/early-90s. Don't remember which it was, but it was made by AKAI and he made it sing tastefully. Very versatile and way ahead of electronic drums of that time. It was the first time I heard of either and yet the technology had been around since the 70s. The EWI in particular has continued to evolve and is still made by AKAI...

http://www.brucecassidymusic.com/the-evi/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EWI_(musical_instrument)

http://akaipro.com/products/ewi-series
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, Møre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,250
Default Re: Why don't many Pro Drummers use Electric Drums?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc2hWJ2EjQs
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com