Playing soft. Loss of energy?

Finally, how are you supposed to perform visually when playing super quiet? Sure you can nod your head alot but that looks plain weird when the visual aspect of physically hitting the drums is all but gone.........

.........How do you do it? How do you "go for it, man" and play quietly at the same time?
Volume-wise, I like playing quietly but I've never been able to play quietly without affecting the clarity of tone or the visual aspect of my performance.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

A couple things that come to mind...Yo have to let go of a lot of things. Things like clarity of tone. Your drums sound better in the audience than you give them credit for. That's part of the fallacy. You are just not used to the tone. Let it go and just play, don't be manufacturing problems for yourself. You have to get out of the mindset that you feel you have to "go for it" all the time. You don't. Try NOT going for it and be pleasantly surprised at how well it can work. The visual aspect. Don't worry about that stuff. You will look as cool as you normally do. When you have great control and can relax and not worry about things, how can you not look great? Instead of bobbing your head, look around and smile. You have energy to burn because you have headroom. Relaxation is what it's all about. Not worrying about your tone or how you look. They're pitfalls. Just understand that you look and sound great and don't worry about those things....they're detrimental.

You basically are creating your own problems. Don't do that! Get out of your own way! You are not a magician. If you have to play soft, concessions have to be made. That's understood. But there are things you gain that make up for the things you have to concede. Like control. Relaxation. Headroom. Those things are pretty impressive to the audience believe it or not. They just aren't "in your face". It's very freeing when you can let go of things you cling tightly to and are more or less "naked"....unencumbered by fallacies and your own manufactured expectations. Let it all go and play naked. Be brave enough to know you don't need to give 110% all the time. Be comfortable and happy to play at 35%. It works MUCH better than you would think. In a nutshell, it's all about how secure you are.
 
I don't have a problem playing in an acoustic gig/jam. I can modulate the tubs just fine, but my cymbals don't open up completely. My ride pings fine at any volume, so she's not a problem; the 13" K-Hybrid hats cut just fine at any dynamic and my 10" K splash fits wherever needed at any volume.

Are my crashes too big? too thick? I use a 15" K fast crash, a 17" A thin crash and an 18" A medium crash. The 15" fast crash isn't too bad, but the two A's sound like trash can lids unless I whack them.

Any ideas on quiet cymbal work?

I am by no means an expert but I did learn while auditioning bunches of cymbals this past spring that each have an intrinsic volume level where they sound best. Certainly it depends on thickness, size, bell diameter / style, bow proportions and all kinds of other esoterica. My good friend Erce at The Cymbal House very specifically guided me towards cymbals that would sound good at lower level of whackage in small rooms.

Maybe you need a couple cymbals specifically for this gig like some Constantinoples in the Zildjian realm or some hand-hammered Turkish beauties.
 
You do have to alter things a bit. Like instead of a big crash on a crash cymbal for instance, you may have to play that crash with just the stick tip on the ride, softly. You still have to maintain your proportions, they are just in miniature.
 
This is something I have to deal with a lot when playing rock/pop gigs at weddings and what not.

I struggle to play quietly and retain good tone. The kick drum is fine (just play heel down) but the snare looses clarity and, as someone else mentioned, the cymbals don't open up properly and sound kind of "clangy".

Moving around the kit at a really low volume is a real challenge for me as well. When any backbeat higher than 4 inches from the head is considered way too loud, how are you supposed to move around the toms quickly yet quietly? I find myself tensing up in order to not let the stick drop down at its normal velocity.

Finally, how are you supposed to perform visually when playing super quiet? Sure you can nod your head alot but that looks plain weird when the visual aspect of physically hitting the drums is all but gone.

The amount of times I've had to play with sticks but keep stoke heights around the 3 inch mark only to have someone from the audience later come and tell me: "You need to rock out and go for it more! Actually hit the drums, man!!!!" or that my playing was getting lost in the mix is so frustrating.


How do you do it? How do you "go for it, man" and play quietly at the same time?
Volume-wise, I like playing quietly but I've never been able to play quietly without affecting the clarity of tone or the visual aspect of my performance.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

Those are all of the problems with playing softly in a nutshell-- the instrument doesn't make the sound it's supposed to, the physics of moving around it at the right volume at performance speed are extremely challenging, and the bandleader, client, audience, and music all want different things from you which are very difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile. There really isn't a solution that satisfies everyone, because I just don't believe musical performances are that scalable-- when you go below a certain threshold, your signal to noise ratio goes to hell, and every little room sound competes with what is coming off the stage, and people can't maintain focus on the music even if they want to. The professional solution is just to recognize that, given the circumstances, it may be impossible to give what you yourself (and maybe the audience, too) consider to be a good performance, and just try to satisfy the client/bandleader's one demand, that you sit on stage and make very little sound. Probably it would help to not look like you're in pain as you do it. I wrote some suggestions here which might be helpful, on what you can do about your actual playing.
 
larryace said:
You have to get out of the mindset that you feel you have to "go for it" all the time. You don't. Try NOT going for it and be pleasantly surprised at how well it can work. The visual aspect. Don't worry about that stuff. You will look as cool as you normally do. When you have great control and can relax and not worry about things, how can you not look great?

I get behind the drums, embrace the challenge of keeping everything whisper quiet and just have fun doing my thing which is playing good music with nice people. But it's from doing my thing at gigs like that that have led to people saying I need to go for it more. It's not a mindset I just made up. I never paid any attention to the visual aspect of gigs like that until I received audience member feedback that I should be "going for it".

Perhaps I made it look too easy :p I've recently started to wonder whether looking too relaxed and in control comes off as indifference to a non-musician/drummer.....if you look like you're struggling a bit, some people interpret that as "going for it." Just a hypothesis.


toddbishop said:
The bandleader, client, audience, and music all want different things from you which are very difficult, if not impossible, to reconcile. There really isn't a solution that satisfies everyone.

Yes! This is exactly it. As in the above example I played quietly as required by the venue and the band but then wasn't able to give a performance that some of the audience were completely satisfied with. It's tough to find that middle ground.
That's a good article, too. Thanks :)
 
When playing softly, there IS a loss of energy. That is literally what lower volume is - less sound energy (amplitude). There is also a change in timbre from the drums and cymbals.

The challenges of playing at lower volume are very real. The drums don't sound the way we expect or want, if we are used to playing at high volume, and then there is the technical aspect of being ABLE to play at low volume.

The trick is to rethink it entirely. You aren't turning down the stereo. It's a different type of performance. As your harp player discovered, Larry, if you embrace it you can still make it burn.
 
The energy of which I speak isn't volume energy, which there is a loss of for sure. The energy of which I speak of is more musical intensity. To put a finer point on it, perhaps I should have said that just because there is a loss of volume, that doesn't automatically mean that the musical intensity is diminished as well.

Slashing the volume while still retaining musical intensity...is really the crux of the apostrophe of this thread.

But good point. There is a difference in musical volume and musical intensity. One does not depend on the other.
 
There is a difference in musical volume and musical intensity. One does not depend on the other.

Egg-sactly. It is when people try to do both, using the same techniques, that they run into trouble, IMO.
 
... You have to get out of the mindset that you feel you have to "go for it" all the time. You don't. Try NOT going for it and be pleasantly surprised at how well it can work.

True. I used to have a mindset where I was very keen on really cooking when I played (not Nigella Lawson cooking). I was into high energy music and high energy players so whenever we had to play softer I was forced to dig into my faux fusion bag (was keen on both fusion drummers too). I tended to be too loud, my timing would be messed up and I was generally put off because the vibe wasn't the same.

It's taken 5+ years of (sporadic, undisciplined) practice to make me really comfortable at low volume - yet even now, in the midst of the quietest ballad a little wicked part of me is always a whisker away from rocking out :)

Allowing yourself not to burn is difficult. You have to let go of your pride and let yourself be the kind of lame arse uneventful drummer you've probably always rolled your eyes at in the past. Timing is more critical at low volumes - everything is crystal clear, which makes you feel more exposed. Timing is the key to getting a groove on at low volume. That and internal dynamics.

Todd made a great point about some music not being very scalable. Crank up My Funny Valentine or turn down It's a Long Way to the Top enough and the songs become something different.

Also, some players are simply at their best soft or loud - they are just soft or loud humans. I was thinking the harp player in the OP might be one of them but he adapted okay.

I wonder how much of it is age-related. I have very little desire to really burn these days unless someone plays a line that "hits the switch". It's conditioning, like regressing during visits to your parents. But usually, now I enjoy playing in a way that's more mellow and "beautiful".
 
Allowing yourself not to burn is difficult. You have to let go of your pride and let yourself be the kind of lame arse uneventful drummer you've probably always rolled your eyes at in the past. Timing is more critical at low volumes - everything is crystal clear, which makes you feel more exposed. Timing is the key to getting a groove on at low volume. That and internal dynamics.

Agreed. It is hard. It's like saying to yourself, even though I have 500 horsepower available, I'm only going to use 20 of them. It doesn't feel right initially. It is very common for drummers to think they have to be trying as hard as they can, all the time. Heck, I'm way guilty of that too. I did that almost my whole "career". Only in the past few years did I learn that having headroom is much better than operating right at the edge of my ability. I flow better. The longer I'm on this journey, the more the illusions just fall away, and the more "naked" I become when I play. I don't cling to dogma, I simply let it be. Sometimes the very things I was scared of...when I let go and allow them to happen...they aren't nearly as bad as I imagined. And sometimes, they worked great!

My favorite quote:

I've suffered through thousands of catastrophies in my life, almost all of which never occurred.
 
Great post Larry - I remember when I was alot younger, a band leader flat-out told me I will play softly and cook or I'm outta there - and he was right.

I think it's an adjustment thing too. But in my case, when I practice at home, I'm in a room and I'm hearing the drums really good. But when I went out and played live, I didn't have walls around me so naturally you want to play harder because you want that feedback. When I learned how to just play without having to get the drums back in my head so loudly, so many things just opened up. Not to mention the audience - they could talk, dance, do whatever, and we weren't nailing them to their chairs. It's a great thing to learn.

By the way - that thing you said about playing punk songs softly? That's been working out so far for me. I've been learning some Beatles and other punk favs on ukulele while singing them and I think I might be on to something ;)
 
Love your work, Lar. Wondering what sort of things scared you? I'm afraid of big spaces.

Well that was part of it for me too, the spaces. But it turns out that spaces are a great tool, very effective. Also just using 20 horses rather than 500. Also relinquishing control, just letting go and if something comes out so so, so what? It's never as bad as I imagine it to be. Loosening up and even letting go of the reigns instead of having a death grip on them is a good analogy. Letting the horse (band) run more freely. Trusting that everything will be OK if I am not trying as hard as I can all the time. When I finally realized that the band can run without me getting all worried about things, I stopped worrying. When you allow the very thing that is scaring you to happen, and it's not the catastrophe that you imagined, well, that was a very freeing thing for me. It's better to try less than try too hard in my case. It comes out better.
 
By the way - that thing you said about playing punk songs softly? That's been working out so far for me. I've been learning some Beatles and other punk favs on ukulele while singing them and I think I might be on to something ;)

Interesting. Punk...actually all music, has a certain unique attitude that is not dependent on the volume. The Beatles and other punk favs? The Beatles are punk?

Punk-elele. You go Bo.
 
By the way - that thing you said about playing punk songs softly?

How about a bit of punk cabaret, Bo? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdAkUV9m7T8 (language warning for those of delicate sensibility)

Also relinquishing control, just letting go and if something comes out so so, so what? It's never as bad as I imagine it to be. Loosening up and even letting go of the reigns instead of having a death grip on them is a good analogy. Letting the horse (band) run more freely.

I seem to play okay if I set myself a brief. The other week before playing I wrote on the back of my hand "Make the music beautiful and groovy" ("groovy" as in lots of groove, not grooovy baybee) and things went smoothly. It seemed to help me focus on what's important and regather the thread when I had moments of doubt.
 
I seem to play okay if I set myself a brief. The other week before playing I wrote on the back of my hand "Make the music beautiful and groovy" ("groovy" as in lots of groove, not grooovy baybee) and things went smoothly. It seemed to help me focus on what's important and regather the thread when I had moments of doubt.

Re: writing on the back of your hand...Groovy baybee lol...I find it helpful to name a goal on the ride to the gig too, just in my head though. Writing it down where you can see it is even more powerful. Whatever I feel needs work, I make a mini goal for that night. Like being more aware, smiling more, closer tailoring to the lead guy, more mature dynamics, whatever. Naming a little goal for the night works more times than not.
 
By the way - that thing you said about playing punk songs softly? That's been working out so far for me. I've been learning some Beatles and other punk favs on ukulele while singing them and I think I might be on to something ;)

Bo, now we have to see a video of that

How about a bit of punk cabaret, Bo? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdAkUV9m7T8 (language warning for those of delicate sensibility)

Weird............now I feel dirty after watching that
 
Back
Top