Jazz Drum Tuning

Diegoro

Member
I’ve seen a lot of posts addressing this but I haven’t really gotten my questions answered. I have a Gretsch kit in bop sizes, coated over clear ambassadors on the kit. I’ve been trying to get a nice jazz bop sound and I’ve been trying for weeks but nothing seems to come out right. I’ve been having the most trouble with my Toms. I think I even possibly messed up those heads from retuning them so many times. I want a sound like on Mark Gulianas and John Riley’s kit (Riley has his tune bot settings online but I don’t own a tune bot and can’t really invest in one at the moment). Something like https://youtu.be/G6YMO7XhDpQ . Only methods I can use at the moment are by ear, number of key turns, or using a piano to tune to notes and intervals. If any of you have any really good methods to get this kind of sound, please let me know and be as specific as possible. Tuning like this is fairly new to me but it’s the way I want my kit to sound. I’d appreciate any help.
 
I found this about Riley's tunings. I don't know how accurate these are or where they were derived from. You can convert these to musical note values approximately using this chart: https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/music/note/

John Riley's tunings!
14x5 snare: 220Hz batter, 400Hz reso
12x8 tom: 177Hz batter, 177Hz reso
14x14 floor tom: 125Hz batter, 125Hz reso
20x16 bass: 77Hz batter, 77Hz reso, 44Hz fundamental

I would avoid trying to get too scientific about this. There is a pretty broad range of tuning that will sound good for what you're trying to do. You've already got the right heads. I would strive to get the top and bottom heads tuned to the same pitch.

The tuning is a lot higher than what is typically used for rock, if that's what you're used to. A half turn higher than what you're used to is a good start. That should make quite a difference on a 12" tom. You may decide you want to do more than that. There are certain tunings that are "sweet spots" that make the drum really sing. I find that more important than specific pitches, because the sweet spot varies from drum to drum.
 
For the toms, you can pretty much use a tuner to hit the frequency you want. The snare you can use a tuning app, it lets you record a note for each lug then you can work out which ones are off.

For the bass I find the cheap mics in the iPad or tuner don't pick it up. I find the best is to do it by touch. Eg your hands are most sensitive to frequencies around 80hz. Also, it's been my experience that for jazz you are more likely to tune to high than anything. They really don't need much tension.
 
Usually you just crank them and go-- medium high to very high on both sides. It's very easy to get a satisfactory bop tuning. Those guys tune their top heads a little lower-- at least in that video. But just listen to Four & More and try to make them sound like that.
 
It's not only the tuning that makes the classic jazz sound, but also the way the toms were made in the 50s and 60s. The classic sound is 'old Gretsches', with that warm boingy tom tone you can recognize immediately.

Toms are made differently today, and sound great for rock and fusion. Sometime famous jazz drummers endorse a top modern brand, but even they can't get these expensive kits to sound like the old jazz drums. Or they prefer a different sound, e.g. Jack DeJohnette or Tony Williams in his later days.
 
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Oh man... You definitely aren't ruining the heads by tuning them, don't go out an buy new heads for every attempt ;)

I know the sound you are thinking of, and agree that those are definitely some ideal voices to be shooting for when it comes to jazz tuning.

Chasing a specific sound can be maddening, so you should also just keep your ears open to what sounds best on YOUR drums. Some toms only have 2 notes (in my experience).

Take the room into account as well. I've had weird things happen when I tune my drums in my house verses where I end up gigging.

Trust your ears. Don't give up!
 
I agree with Todd tighten up both batter and reso head as tight as you can without it choking out-so you can get your high tom as high as G3 (good luck) but more like E3-D3. My high tom is a 13 in and it's about an A2. It can go as high as a B2 but it chokes out at C3. I think just tuning the kit you have as high as you can and it sound good will work fine. It's really how those jazz cats play not what they play on.
 
I recommend that you fall in love with the pursuit of a good sound. That way, you wont lose your patience in the pursuit of it. Believe me--when you get the kit to sound like you want it, take it as a given that your ideal sound will change. It's a matter of taste. Todd mentioned that you listen to "Four and More," which is a great start for a well tuned bop kit. But TONY hated it when he heard the record. He thought he sounded like he was "playing with knitting needles." After that recording, he lowered the pitch of his drums. Some will insist you tune top and bottom heads the same. Some will insist the lower head ought to be tuned higher. Others will swear it ought to be lower. Then you'll have the guys who want you to tune to specific pitches. Truth is, they can all result in a good sound. You must find your own way. But checking out great drummers' method of tuning is part of that search. I've been drumming for 54 years, and I still try various tunings. And then, on gigs, I have to adjust to the acoustics of the venue--another subject all together. Love the problem!
 

Is adding to an existing topic and extending the conversation not preferred or would you rather have 5 threads on the same topic?

Bumping old threads adds to the knowledge base. Making a new thread on an old topic creates duplication as if one expects a different answer. Are those that contribute to the old thread gonna just retype everything again or they gonna share a new experience or more likely ignore it all together?

Are the four year old responses to this topic outdated or still of value? It’s called experience.

You want duplicate topics… go to Facebook.
 
I imagined myself asking this question if (I) was curious but I didn't have answers like these back in the day as I had no knowledge of any forums whatsoever. Damn..the answers here are fantastic!..i just think it's so freakin cool that people really care to give a helping hand here on any subject on any day at any time..what a bunch of cool drummers on here..sorry but I'm thoroughly impressed..damn!.
 
Responding to the OP like the question was asked yesterday seems a little silly to me. Though I’m okay bumping older threads when you acknowledge it’s an older thread and add something useful.

Rereading that post, it looks like jazzerooty did offer some useful info, so maybe I was a little quick in my snarky response. But I stand by my thinking that responding to a 4 year old question like it was asked yesterday is silly.
 
Responding to the OP like the question was asked yesterday seems a little silly to me. Though I’m okay bumping older threads when you acknowledge it’s an older thread and add something useful.

Rereading that post, it looks like jazzerooty did offer some useful info, so maybe I was a little quick in my snarky response. But I stand by my thinking that responding to a 4 year old question like it was asked yesterday is silly.
In the world of social media, everyone thinks their question is unique and therefore they require an individualized answer to them. This is not how you add to community knowledge so all of us can learn. Would you rather search 5 threads on Jazz tuning or just go to one in depth thread?

This subject is a classic example of that. It’s widely recognized that the first Jazz recording was made in 1917. So is this a new topic? Might have been covered in the past 100 years? Could we learn from old conversations from those long gone or should we ask the question as if brand new?

Now that’s silly. You learn from the past; the old threads is what separates forum boards from FB and Instagram which are shallow.

 
In the world of social media, everyone thinks their question is unique and therefore they require an individualized answer to them. This is not how you add to community knowledge so all of us can learn. Would you rather search 5 threads on Jazz tuning or just go to one in depth thread?

This subject is a classic example of that. It’s widely recognized that the first Jazz recording was made in 1917. So is this a new topic? Might have been covered in the past 100 years? Could we learn from old conversations from those long gone or should we ask the question as if brand new?

You learn from the past; the old threads is what separates forum boards from FB and Instagram which are shallow.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I am an huge fan of keeping older threads for the very reasons you mention.

The times they are a changing, but the more they change, the more they stay the same.
 
This makes a lot of sense to me. I am an huge fan of keeping older threads for the very reasons you mention.

The times they are a changing, but the more they change, the more they stay the same.
Exactly. Why keep old threads at all if they have no value? They obviously have value and are searchable. Ever try to search for something on FB? Good luck, the algorithm is programmed to show you new things, not old.

And what rises to the top on Twitter? Retweets. And what is a retweet if not duplication. Social media is all about duplication and not knowledge.

Boards are about knowledge and in depth discussion; not “ the days new shiny object “ to be duplicated across as many “feeds” as possible only to be reposted again sometime in the near future by someone looking for more “likes”.

Why ask about Jazz tuning again when you can search the board, actually learn something, and then add to the ongoing discussion. Not silly and the way board forums have operated back to Compuserve in 1979. Bet some folks weren’t even born then.

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Oh man... You definitely aren't ruining the heads by tuning them, don't go out an buy new heads for every attempt ;)

I know the sound you are thinking of, and agree that those are definitely some ideal voices to be shooting for when it comes to jazz tuning.

Chasing a specific sound can be maddening, so you should also just keep your ears open to what sounds best on YOUR drums. Some toms only have 2 notes (in my experience).

Take the room into account as well. I've had weird things happen when I tune my drums in my house verses where I end up gigging.

Trust your ears. Don't give up!
Right on! Us drummers we gotta tweak our tuning to the room we're playing; and the kit sounds different 10 or 20 feet out front than it does sitting on top of it. In a pinch you can do a one lug quick-tune tension adjust, either top or bottom, to dial in each drum to the room.
 
this kid has a good method if you are tuning for a small group.

this is how I tune for small group ... seems to project nicely in smaller venues

for larger venues I'll tune the reso head lower than the batter for projection

check out all this kids videos ... he tunes well and plays well

 
Am I supposed to feel like I'm out-of-line by addressing the subject? Or is that a rule you made up?

The latter……

Wisdom is not asking the same question over and over; expecting some unique or different answer. That’s called youth and inexperience.

Wisdom is defined by Oxford as the body of knowledge and principles that develops within a specified society over a period of time.

The strength of a knowledge base aka forum is the members and the members knowledge contained in previous posts. That’s why the old posts are saved and searchable.
 
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