A fe simple questions about notation.

G

Goonie for life

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Ok so I have finaly found a good book that can break down reading drum notation.
But i'm still having a few problems, and to me they don't specify it seems like this would click right away if I had a video.

anyway.


I have a snare rudiment that is in 4/4 time.




here is an example of what it looks like

quarter_note_half_note_whole_note.gif




So if the whole note in the second measure were in 4/4 time would it be played in four quarter notes like 1234 and 3 rests
or just played like four quarter notes with proper spacing ?

Sorry for that crappy staff lol, thanks !
 
Assuming it is not a roll. I would say that you just hit on the 1, and there you go, you played that measure.
 
Yes. For a snare, since you can't sustain like you can on a piano, guitar, etc. you would play a whole note on the ONE and rest on the 234. UNLESS there are like 2-3 diagonal lines or a Z right above the whole note, in drum notation those markings mean a closed or buzz roll for the duration of the note.
 
In a bar of 4/4 time a whole note takes care of 4 counts. There is only one note in the bar so you'll only make one sound on the count of 1 and nothing on counts 2,3 and 4 giving the note it's full value.
 
That's the difference to melody and harmony instruments: You (normally) can't and don't play long notes and short notes, you just hit the drum, period.

So these whole notes in your learning book are probably for the sake of learning to read, and understanding everything, but not really for "practical" purpose in your drummer's life. You rarely find whole notes (and half notes) in drumming sheets. And if you do, it's all about making reading a certain rhythm as easy as possible (as opposed to a short note followed by multiple rests), if you know what I mean.
 
One reason the standard notation is a little inadequate for percussion, IMO. Since all of your hits are going to be the same "length", transitioning between drawing quarters, eights, and sixteenths is a recipe for massive confusion.

Thus, I heavily prefer the way notation is done in drum tabs. A hit gets a character (usually an x or an o) and that's all there is to it. See the character, hit the thing. No rests, no concern for note duration, just hit where you see the indicator.
 
Speaking of notation questions...

I often see two note grouping equal to 1/8 (like 4 1/32 or 3 1/16 trips) barred with a single line (like an 1/8) into one 1/4. But that never made sense to me because if one of the notes really were an 1/8 then the whole thing equal would equal out to more than 1/4.

See example, in the first example how is that different from 8 straight 1/32 notes?
Or how is the 2nd example (the 1/16 trips) different from a 1/16 note sextuplet?
 

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Fuo said:
Speaking of notation questions...

I often see two note grouping equal to 1/8 (like 4 1/32 or 3 1/16 trips) barred with a single line (like an 1/8) into one 1/4. But that never made sense to me because if one of the notes really were an 1/8 then the whole thing equal would equal out to more than 1/4.

See example, in the first example how is that different from 8 straight 1/32 notes?
Or how is the 2nd example (the 1/16 trips) different from a 1/16 note sextuplet?
Click to expand...

There are no differences -- those are 8 32nd notes, etc. I think it's done to help make the subdividing clearer; it's a visual representation that the first four notes should be fitting into the "space" of one eighth note, or that the first eight notes should be fitting into the space of a quarter note. Same with the second example: it's a way to show that the first three notes should fit in the "space" of an eighth note, and that all six together should be equivalent to a quarter note.
 
MisterMixelpix said:
One reason the standard notation is a little inadequate for percussion, IMO. Since all of your hits are going to be the same "length", transitioning between drawing quarters, eights, and sixteenths is a recipe for massive confusion.

Thus, I heavily prefer the way notation is done in drum tabs. A hit gets a character (usually an x or an o) and that's all there is to it. See the character, hit the thing. No rests, no concern for note duration, just hit where you see the indicator.
Click to expand...

I agree, drum tabs are a lot simpler. The tradeoff is that you can't express as much subtlety as you can with musical notation.
 
Deathmetalconga said:
I agree, drum tabs are a lot simpler. The tradeoff is that you can't express as much subtlety as you can with musical notation.
Click to expand...

Dynamics and such? Sure, but I think you could add all those to the tabs. Now for extra technical stuff it can get hazy.

One example that comes to mind is Meshuggah's "Bleed". I'm not sure trying to tab out the kicks on that would be easy, what with the constant two 32nds followed by two 16ths. It'd be ooo-o-ooo-o-ooo-o I guess?
 
Sure you do. The bars are divided up based on the smallest note. For example:

Code: 
C| o-------o-------
H| --o-o-o---o-o-o-
S| --o---o---o---o-
B| o---o---o---o---

That's a pretty standard 4/4 measure right there. Now let's say for a line suddenly the kicks went constant and double time, we have two ways of doing it:

Code: 
C| o-------o-------
H| --o-o-o---o-o-o-
S| --o---o---o---o-
B| dddddddddddddddd

Or:

Code: 
C| o---------------o---------------
H| ----o---o---o-------o---o---o---
S| ----o-------o-------o-------o---
B| oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

The value of each '-' symbol is fairly dynamic, you have to sort of read it in context.
 
MisterMixelpix said:
Dynamics and such? Sure, but I think you could add all those to the tabs. Now for extra technical stuff it can get hazy.

One example that comes to mind is Meshuggah's "Bleed". I'm not sure trying to tab out the kicks on that would be easy, what with the constant two 32nds followed by two 16ths. It'd be ooo-o-ooo-o-ooo-o I guess?
Click to expand...

Well, how do you express ruffs, drags and ghost notes with drum tabs?
 
MisterMixelpix said:
One reason the standard notation is a little inadequate for percussion, IMO. Since all of your hits are going to be the same "length", transitioning between drawing quarters, eights, and sixteenths is a recipe for massive confusion.
Click to expand...

So, your ride cymbal and snare drum have the exact same decay? That's interesting...

Personally, I've never ever experienced any sort of confusion caused by different time values. Rather, understanding time values gives you more time to react and read ahead, and even if you don't read from a sheet, thinking of the notes visually can really help with certain rhythms and patterns you haven't quite internalised yet. Sure, it's difficult in the beginning, but once you learn it, it's easy as pie. Drum tab, to me, looks like a collection of very short time values followed by a bunch of very short pauses, making it very difficult and unintuitive to read on the fly.

Thus, I heavily prefer the way notation is done in drum tabs. A hit gets a character (usually an x or an o) and that's all there is to it. See the character, hit the thing. No rests, no concern for note duration, just hit where you see the indicator.
Click to expand...

How is "o---------------------" any different to a whole note on a music staff?
 
Well, how do you express ruffs, drags and ghost notes with drum tabs?
Click to expand...

A ruff would usually be indicated with the letter r
A ghost note would be a " g " if more dynamics are required one can write " O/o/g " where the O is an accent the o is a normal strike and a g is a ghost note.
drags are usually a d.

These are just some examples. Generally tabbers will use whatever notation they think makes the most sense for any given song and will almost always include some form of index within the tab to make sense of it all.

Personally I think that tabs hold up pretty well for simple grooves. Things get dicey when 4/4 songs have triplets in them (often in fills) or when 32 notes are used. Tabs also become difficult to read when songs contain long fills which utilize many elements of the drum set (A high tom, mid tom, low tom, snare, kick fill for instance) due to the increase in vertical space that is required to note it down.

As a beginning drummer tabs are invaluable for me to figure out many songs. I learned how to read formal notation as well. However I noticed that this isn't as structured as many people believe (at least this appears to be the case for drums). Note values of course are the same but sometimes the same space on the bar will represent a different part of the drum set for different publications and that can get confusing.

At the end of the day it's most likely a smart idea to just learn both. Tabs are easy to read and you can find them everywhere. I use them to quickly note down ideas or transcribe songs when I'm behind the PC. At the same time there are tons of books out there and online resources that use formal notation. I'd be missing out on a lot of good stuff if I didn't know how to read notes.

Just my two cents
 
Duracell said:
A ruff would usually be indicated with the letter r
A ghost note would be a " g " if more dynamics are required one can write " O/o/g " where the O is an accent the o is a normal strike and a g is a ghost note.
drags are usually a d.

These are just some examples. Generally tabbers will use whatever notation they think makes the most sense for any given song and will almost always include some form of index within the tab to make sense of it all.

Personally I think that tabs hold up pretty well for simple grooves. Things get dicey when 4/4 songs have triplets in them (often in fills) or when 32 notes are used. Tabs also become difficult to read when songs contain long fills which utilize many elements of the drum set (A high tom, mid tom, low tom, snare, kick fill for instance) due to the increase in vertical space that is required to note it down.

As a beginning drummer tabs are invaluable for me to figure out many songs. I learned how to read formal notation as well. However I noticed that this isn't as structured as many people believe (at least this appears to be the case for drums). Note values of course are the same but sometimes the same space on the bar will represent a different part of the drum set for different publications and that can get confusing.

At the end of the day it's most likely a smart idea to just learn both. Tabs are easy to read and you can find them everywhere. I use them to quickly note down ideas or transcribe songs when I'm behind the PC. At the same time there are tons of books out there and online resources that use formal notation. I'd be missing out on a lot of good stuff if I didn't know how to read notes.

Just my two cents
Click to expand...

Once you understand music notation you'll NEVER go back to tabs. Music notation is a universal language us musicians use to communicate ideas. Trying to match your drum tabs with a music chart will cause chaos and confusion. Reading and understanding musical notation, especially for drums, is even simpler as were are not concerned with scales, flats, sharps etc. Do yourself a favour, knuckle down and learn your musical notation. IT'S EASY!!!!!!!!!!!! and you'll never look back. Musical keys are normally found on a drum sheet so you'll know which note denotes which part of the drum. Problem sorted.
 
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