DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Drums

Drums All about Drums and Drum Kits

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #41  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:28 PM
RickP's Avatar
RickP RickP is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,417
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

I have owned drums from all sorts of manufacturers and if a drum set has a sound, look and build quality that sings to me I will buy it regardless of where it is manufactured. I am also not picky about whether a set of drums is from a Major manufacturer or a boutique brand. If I like it, I will buy it. I do favour newer kits to vintage with the exception being the Slingerland kit I own. I can see the charm of a vintage kit, but I Gig these kits and I donít need things failing on me at a gig. My Slingerland kit is built well and sounds fantastic.

Buy what you like regardless of where it is from.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:35 PM
SnickSound SnickSound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 37
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by incrementalg View Post
I'm a guy who likes to put a face to things...regardless of where they're made. I watched a video a while back on the production of the Tama Star line which renewed my appreciation for Tama. I already knew that real people make the drums, but seeing someone actually doing it with their hands made it all the more special for me. For me that hands on approach was what I once equated to American drum brands, so I put a higher value on the American made stuff for a long time.
But those are made in Japan. Generally speaking that's considered as good if not better than US-made. And it's certainly not cheaper than US made.

Tama is after all a japanese company
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:50 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is online now
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,557
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jbravo View Post
Is it just a coincidence that this thread started just above my thread on the Pearl Session Studio Select in which I said Iíd prefer a USA built kit; or did I open a can of worms?

...but if I come off as a chest beating, nationalistic type, itís due to my lack of communication skills, and boy would the people who assume I think like that be surprised!:D
Steve
Actually yes I did get the idea for this thread from your thread. However I never for 1 second thought you were chest beating. It just raised a question in my mind.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-26-2018, 12:05 AM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,026
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Sometimes I associate overseas labor with unfairness/cruelty. We have a lot of rules here that make it more expensive to produce things, but there is, in reality a good reason for these rules. We weren't much better before them, and there's probably still plenty of room to improve them.

At any rate, I think this plays into some people's decisions. I also like to support those around me and will buy something more expensive from a local merchant on principle rather than order or go where it's always cheapest. Walmart isn't my favorite place.
Ur awesome dude! ...
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:14 AM
CompactDrums's Avatar
CompactDrums CompactDrums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Toronto burbs, Canada
Posts: 646
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
I don't get the attitude of made in US is better. As a person who resides in the US, I feel we are not nearly as hard working as an equivalent person in a different country. So why is it supposedly desirable to have drums made in the USA? Eastern brains and hands can do the same as Western brains and hands. Probably more. I mean they did invent the Marshall Arts. The East is very wise compared to the West, JMO. I am totally failing to see why US drums are considered better quality.

It's one thing to buy a US made set to keep the money in this country.

It's quite another thing to think that a set made in China for instance is built to a lower standard than a US made set.

Take cars for instance. Toyota and Honda could be the most reliable cars ever built. So if they can do a complex thing like cars at least as good if not better than the US...drums should be a walk in the park, right?

So can someone please explain to my why the US has the best drums or best quality manufacturing techniques? It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Unless I'm missing something, which is very possible.
A lot of it has to do with culture. In Japan for example there is a term; "Kaizen", loosely it stands for a strive for constant improvement. This is deeply embedded in Japanese business culture. In the 70's japanese cars were mechanically reliable but literally rusted away in front of your eyes. Nowadays they have improved to the highest dependability in the world in every way including rust prevention. Musical instruments made in japan in modern times also fetch similar prices as US-made products.

Chinese manufacturing personnel and facilities have the ability to be on par with Japan and USA but not the cultural inclination. In China the physical appearance matters more. Which you can clearly see when you look at the finish of the body on a cheap chinese guitar. It looks as nice, but pick it up and play it and quickly you'll notice it's in a different class altogether. There is also much more variation between specimens while Japan and US made products are way more consistent.
__________________
http://compactdrums.com/

http://walopus.com/
Gloriously Gleaming Drum Wrap
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:19 AM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 829
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Watso View Post
Sometimes I associate overseas labor with unfairness/cruelty. We have a lot of rules here that make it more expensive to produce things, but there is, in reality a good reason for these rules. We weren't much better before them, and there's probably still plenty of room to improve them.

At any rate, I think this plays into some people's decisions. I also like to support those around me and will buy something more expensive from a local merchant on principle rather than order or go where it's always cheapest. Walmart isn't my favorite place.
Depends on what "overseas" means. Labor laws and industrial environmental standards are much stricter in Canada, Most of Europe, and possibly Japan, than they are in the country mentionned in the title of this thread. Buying local is a very relative concept.

I am 100% with you on this one nonetheless, I just wanted to add a touch of nuance to this thread. :-)
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:20 AM
CompactDrums's Avatar
CompactDrums CompactDrums is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Toronto burbs, Canada
Posts: 646
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
The nostalgia thing you mentioned....Does it carry any value anymore?

Back in the day, like the 60's and prior, yea, overseas stuff was definitely not all that.

That's all changed now, yet there is still a disproportionate amount of folks clinging to the old attitudes.

They just don't apply anymore.

I'm still looking for real reasons why US drums are supposedly superior. If no one can come up with anything, then IMO it's time to shake off that old mindset and re-evaluate the situation.

Also, is Chinese maple inferior to North American maple? I mean it's from the same planet, maybe the same latitude. I need facts.
There are 100s of subspecies of Maple over the world. North America has almost all of them represented. Only a handful of these subspecies are harvested for drum material. None of that handful of subspecies are present in Asia so they harvest other, less desirable subspecies for drum material.
__________________
http://compactdrums.com/

http://walopus.com/
Gloriously Gleaming Drum Wrap

Last edited by CompactDrums; 09-26-2018 at 02:20 AM. Reason: fat fingers
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:35 AM
MrInsanePolack's Avatar
MrInsanePolack MrInsanePolack is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,955
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Some food for thought. I build PA speakers. As an example, ElectroVoice, a German company (it's owned by Bosch) have woofers from Germany, Italy, or the US. The drivers come from Germany. The horns are US, or China. If the horns have hydras, those come from China. Crossovers and input panels come from Mexico. The hardware is mostly from the US, some comes from Germany. The instruction manual are US, as are the fasteners. The wood is Russian birch (not ALL, but most cabinets). The paint is US.

We build these in the US. Most of the people who build these are Hispanic. Once the wood is cut, the boxes are built by either a Guatamalan woman or Mexican man. They are bondoed by whites and Mexicans. Mexicans paint the cabinets. They are then sent to final assembly where 3 Mexicans, 1 Puerto Rican, and 3 whites assemble, test, and package for shipping the final product. This is overseen by myself, a white man, and my counterpart, a Mexican man.

So I ask you, does made in America even mean anything anymore? Is the wood American? No. Are most of the parts American? No. Are the people who build the things naturally born Americans? Mostly no.

I just don't think it matters anymore where anything is made, as long as corporate fat cats find new and easier ways to fill their pockets.
__________________
Grease or The Bird, which is it? Someone please tell me, what is the d@mn word?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:53 AM
Destroyer772's Avatar
Destroyer772 Destroyer772 is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Maysville ky
Posts: 1,211
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
Some food for thought. I build PA speakers. As an example, ElectroVoice, a German company (it's owned by Bosch) have woofers from Germany, Italy, or the US. The drivers come from Germany. The horns are US, or China. If the horns have hydras, those come from China. Crossovers and input panels come from Mexico. The hardware is mostly from the US, some comes from Germany. The instruction manual are US, as are the fasteners. The wood is Russian birch (not ALL, but most cabinets). The paint is US.

We build these in the US. Most of the people who build these are Hispanic. Once the wood is cut, the boxes are built by either a Guatamalan woman or Mexican man. They are bondoed by whites and Mexicans. Mexicans paint the cabinets. They are then sent to final assembly where 3 Mexicans, 1 Puerto Rican, and 3 whites assemble, test, and package for shipping the final product. This is overseen by myself, a white man, and my counterpart, a Mexican man.

So I ask you, does made in America even mean anything anymore? Is the wood American? No. Are most of the parts American? No. Are the people who build the things naturally born Americans? Mostly no.

I just don't think it matters anymore where anything is made, as long as corporate fat cats find new and easier ways to fill their pockets.
You nailed it with this reply. Take this DW video for example look at all the different ethnicities at work in this factory. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPighlLYd2c&t=2s
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-26-2018, 05:22 AM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,410
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
Depends on what "overseas" means. Labor laws and industrial environmental standards are much stricter in Canada, Most of Europe, and possibly Japan, than they are in the country mentionned in the title of this thread. Buying local is a very relative concept.

I am 100% with you on this one nonetheless, I just wanted to add a touch of nuance to this thread. :-)
Sure, and as the thread alludes to, you tend to see fewer goods from those places because it's more expensive to follow the rules, and share-holders don't like more expensive. Hell, buyers don't like more expensive. It's a weird balance we have to play. For the most part, at least here in america, people are pretty willing to do the "out of sight - out of mind" thing. When it comes to luxuries like cheap goods and steaks every night; the suffering just needs to be far enough from our view to conveniently forget about and we're fine with it.

I guess the best I'm able to do is try and just be aware and minimize where I can. Ultimately, we're all guilty of human/animal nature, even if we make consistent attempts to be civil and good to one another.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-26-2018, 06:32 AM
Ghostin one Ghostin one is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Berserk County, PA
Posts: 110
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
There are 100s of subspecies of Maple over the world. North America has almost all of them represented.
I don't think that's right about the subspecies...There are only around 125 species in the genus Acer, and only a dozen or so are native to North America. Most species are Asian. Almost none are found in the southern hemisphere.

Some species have recognized subspecies, but most are just regional ecotypes that aren't given subspecies rank.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-26-2018, 07:12 AM
Tommy_D's Avatar
Tommy_D Tommy_D is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,368
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

If there is one thing, well 2 things, the USA does well in the drum world it is making heads and drumsticks. Remo, Evans, Vic Firth, Pro Mark, Vater, Regal Tip, etc are all made in the USA and they pretty much dominate the world market. So while USA drums may only be able to keep up with the Jonses, we make up for it with our quality heads and sticks. You know, the stuff that wears out quickly and you need to replace all the time.
__________________
Tommy D's Drums
Cymbals for Sale
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-26-2018, 09:07 AM
Andy's Avatar
Andy Andy is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Let's place the maple sub species thing into perspective. Almost all drum shell production, anywhere in the world, draws sheets from commercially available sources primarily headed for the decorative facing of ply boards for the construction industry. With the exception of some decorative outer plies, & a few niche applications, the chances most companies know, or even care what the exact species is - is unlikely. Variations in quality - even within the same species, carries a much bigger properties variable compared to the species itself.

By the time much of the structure is already lost by shaving the wood into thin sheets, then bent, then layered up with multiple glue bonds & grain directions, just about the only original wood source attribute left that makes any difference is hardness / density. 10 x more affect is attributed to rigidity / integrity / thickness (mass) than the remains of any characteristic of the original species / source.
__________________
https://www.firedupband.net
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:43 PM
Drumolator Drumolator is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: central Louisiana
Posts: 2,577
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

I really like my drums that were made in China. Those people need to eat too, and I am no better than they are. Peace and goodwill.
__________________
Mark Wellman
Mapex Saturn (bass drums, toms, snare), MPX(snare), Tomahawk (snare); Sabian, Evans
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-26-2018, 03:50 PM
V-Four's Avatar
V-Four V-Four is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: New England
Posts: 113
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
The nostalgia thing you mentioned....Does it carry any value anymore?

Back in the day, like the 60's and prior, yea, overseas stuff was definitely not all that.

That's all changed now, yet there is still a disproportionate amount of folks clinging to the old attitudes.

They just don't apply anymore.

I'm still looking for real reasons why US drums are supposedly superior. If no one can come up with anything, then IMO it's time to shake off that old mindset and re-evaluate the situation.

Also, is Chinese maple inferior to North American maple? I mean it's from the same planet, maybe the same latitude. I need facts.

I think ya hit the nail on the head here already. It's mainly just the way it used to be, and people don't want to let that go. Yea, "Made in the USA" is much more rare than it used to be, so maybe that too..?.


I would say that "machine made"( in any country) will give a more consistent product than "hand made" one offs. BUT I feel that there needs to be human involved QC. And QC can make or break it.

JMO,YMMV..etc..


BTW, who is INSISTING that US made is superior? (yes, I know ya hear it from time to time.) Japanese [mfg.] was catching up in the late 60's, and was superior by the late 70's (or sooner, though few will admit it.)
Read the book "the Reckoning" by David Halibrand (sp?). Speaks on manufacturing in the US/Japan (Lot of perspective from inside the Ford plant in US and Nissan plant, Japan,- where we lost it, how we lost it by not taking Japan seriously (although plenty of people saw it coming back then.) Published in 1986, but started long before that. Still relevant and scary today.


Wait, what was the question..?..?.

T.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-28-2018, 01:44 AM
T_Weaves's Avatar
T_Weaves T_Weaves is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Forest Hills, PA
Posts: 908
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

I don't get caught up in the buy american thing as plenty of other jobs are created when things get imported and exported. I do try to support local merchants in my metro area. It's a world economy these days, like it not. My money goes to buy things that meet my needs whether they're from Germany, Taiwan, Japan or the USA.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-28-2018, 04:29 AM
steadypocket steadypocket is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 984
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

American drum companies appeal to Americansí patriotism and nationalistic pride when pushing ďmade in the USAĒ campaigns. The reality is, place of manufacture has no bearing on a drumís quality. The best wood drums Iíve encountered are made in the UK. Best production drums Iíve run across hail from Japan and Germany, while the best metal drums for me come from the UK and the US. My made in China Tama Starclassic is as well made or better than most American drums and the worst kit Iíve owned over the past couple of decades was built in North Carolina. My love of country has no effect on what I buy, or what I like.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-28-2018, 05:35 AM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,916
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

I was Made in America-and I'm pretty well made and holding up pretty well for 63 years of use and abuse. Course I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) Hey that's catchy I'll change my signature. I slay me-I wish everyone enjoyed my humor as much as I do.
__________________
"I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) "
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:01 AM
MrInsanePolack's Avatar
MrInsanePolack MrInsanePolack is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,955
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
I was Made in America-and I'm pretty well made and holding up pretty well for 63 years of use and abuse.
Yes but I bet your genes were sourced from another country!
__________________
Grease or The Bird, which is it? Someone please tell me, what is the d@mn word?
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:04 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,026
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
I was Made in America-and I'm pretty well made and holding up pretty well for 63 years of use and abuse. Course I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) Hey that's catchy I'll change my signature. I slay me-I wish everyone enjoyed my humor as much as I do.
We do................
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:16 PM
Odd-Arne Oseberg's Avatar
Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sykkylven, MÝre og Romsdal, Norway
Posts: 3,490
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

First, it's "MARTIAL ARTS." A wide term that's in no way exclusive to the East. Empty hand combat was a result of not being able to afford or legally own weapons. Art and competition is a way of preserving it, but was a way to keep those skills sharp and legal. Eventually not really useful, which is why Bruce did what he did.

Anyway. I like Gretsch, so I'd generally like it to be American made.

It's not about quality, it's about supporting your own country's economy, which is why I as a Norwegian don't really care..... as long as Gretsch stays in business.:-)

Hardly unique to the US. I'm sure the Australians on here know what imported goods costs in their country. Not just attitudes there, but actual laws that exist to promote the support of domestic business.
__________________
So, kick drum...or...bass drum? I'll tell you what. If it's 18" or less, it's a FOOT TOM.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-28-2018, 06:25 PM
whiteknightx's Avatar
whiteknightx whiteknightx is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 549
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

I'm Canadian, and I use Sabian cymbals and Ayotte drums, both of which are Canadian companies. At least here, Sabian's are a bit cheaper than any other cymbal line of equivalent quality, so that is a big factor for me. But I do take a little bit of nationalistic pride in supporting my fellow Canadians as well. But I also have a set of Yamaha's that I love, and I've owned Pearl and Gretsch in the past. All of them, are great brands and well made for what their price point is. Once you get away from the bottom feeder kits, in my opinion most intermediate level kits are around the same quality level, same with higher end. It doesn't matter what the nationality of the person who screws the lugs to the shells is.

It's a modern reality that the largest amount of labour is in the finishing, so that's where much of the money in manufacture is spent. You just can't make cheap drums anymore in most western countries, so by default, most North American and European drums are "High End" because you just can't make cheap kits here.
__________________
Ayotte Drumsmith 6 pc, Sabian HHX Evolution cymbals
Yamaha DTX950K

Last edited by whiteknightx; 09-28-2018 at 06:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2018, 06:40 PM
wildbill
This message has been deleted by wildbill.
  #63  
Old 09-29-2018, 05:10 PM
steadypocket steadypocket is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 984
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Let's place the maple sub species thing into perspective. Almost all drum shell production, anywhere in the world, draws sheets from commercially available sources primarily headed for the decorative facing of ply boards for the construction industry. With the exception of some decorative outer plies, & a few niche applications, the chances most companies know, or even care what the exact species is - is unlikely. Variations in quality - even within the same species, carries a much bigger properties variable compared to the species itself.

By the time much of the structure is already lost by shaving the wood into thin sheets, then bent, then layered up with multiple glue bonds & grain directions, just about the only original wood source attribute left that makes any difference is hardness / density. 10 x more affect is attributed to rigidity / integrity / thickness (mass) than the remains of any characteristic of the original species / source.
If I may paraphrase: Don’t get hung up on the type of wood used in ply drum construction. It just doesn’t make all that much of a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-29-2018, 05:42 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is online now
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,557
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd-Arne Oseberg View Post
First, it's "MARTIAL ARTS."
I feel like such a tool. Marshall Arts lol.. Keeping with the Eastern philosophy, I have to commit Hari Kari now to spare my family the shame.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-29-2018, 06:02 PM
wildbill's Avatar
wildbill wildbill is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Midwest - USA
Posts: 6,688
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Is made in the US really that much better?
Who said made in the US is better?
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-29-2018, 08:46 PM
Jbravo's Avatar
Jbravo Jbravo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Westport, SD
Posts: 160
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

In one case at least, I guess me. I decided on Classic Maples. :D
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-29-2018, 10:10 PM
larryace's Avatar
larryace larryace is online now
"Uncle Larry"
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: In beautiful Bucks County, PA
Posts: 20,557
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
Who said made in the US is better?
I think it was a guy named Eddie :P

It seems to be the general consensus around these here parts.
__________________
Levis/Hanes/Timberlands/Custom made socks
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09-30-2018, 08:43 AM
paradiddle pete's Avatar
paradiddle pete paradiddle pete is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: down south
Posts: 1,522
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Well it used to be until you piped up.
__________________
petey poo!
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 09-30-2018, 06:11 PM
John B John B is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

New to this forum.
In the past 6 years, I've owned 4 Ludwig Classic Maple kits and was less than impressed with Ludwig's quality control. Three of the kits were wrapped finishes. All had an excessive amount of glue at the seams, chrome plating on the snare throw-off of one kit was flaking, and one white marine pearl kit ordered from the factory had a blue fleck of plastic embedded in the wrap on the floor tom. To be fair, Ludwig did offer to re-wrap the drum if I shipped it out to them, but I decided to just live with it. Nitpicking I guess. The drums sounded great but those little details bugged me. Don't seem to have those issues with the Sonor or Yamaha drums I own.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-30-2018, 07:24 PM
J-Boogie J-Boogie is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,026
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

I thought all the nicest stuff was European.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 10-01-2018, 10:20 PM
markdrum markdrum is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 595
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
The nostalgia thing you mentioned....Does it carry any value anymore?

Back in the day, like the 60's and prior, yea, overseas stuff was definitely not all that.

That's all changed now, yet there is still a disproportionate amount of folks clinging to the old attitudes.

They just don't apply anymore.

I'm still looking for real reasons why US drums are supposedly superior. If no one can come up with anything, then IMO it's time to shake off that old mindset and re-evaluate the situation.




Also, is Chinese maple inferior to North American maple? I mean it's from the same planet, maybe the same latitude. I need facts.
I don't think that one region makes everything better than another. It depends on the company's commitment to quality and customer satisfaction. Most American companies think and plan in terms of the next quarter, 3 months. The Japanese have always taken the long view which is why they dominate in so many areas. The problem with America's decline in designing and manufacturing products was not in the quality of labor but in the quality of management. Just ask Roy Burns about what happened at Rogers. As to workers in other regions being harder working, American workers have the least amount of vacation compared to most other countries. In Europe, India and Australia the average worker has one month of paid vacation on their first day at the company!

By the way, African mahogany is much denser than it's Pacific cousins. Lauan is much lighter and cheaper than African mahogany but it's considered to be greatly inferior. They are members of the same family but there are differences between the two. Local climates have a huge effect on the qualities that a given material will have. This is true of other woods as well. I don't think that copper mined in the US is any better than that mined elsewhere however.

I do prefer US made drums because I know that I'm helping to create and keep jobs here in the US. However, I do have quite a few foreign-made drums.

And not to be snotty but it's martial arts. I used to make that same mistake before I started studying them. I got straightened out on that >real< quick8^)
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:10 AM
paradiddle pete's Avatar
paradiddle pete paradiddle pete is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: down south
Posts: 1,522
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

The real question is are U.S. drums that much better than U.S. drums? The answer is yes.. Once you cheapen your model line to " compete " with other cheap lines you are undercutting yourself. you can see it now on every level. i do that too! Me Too!
__________________
petey poo!
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 10-02-2018, 01:11 AM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 13,282
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Whatever it is that will make you spend your money on it, make you love playing it, and get better at it, if that means “made in the USA” or made somewhere else, then that’s what it means. I’ve owned USA drums, and Japanese, and Taiwanese, and I’m still a little biased by things made where I live. There’re so many foreign countries doing business in the US hiring US workers, and vice versa, everything is so mixed up nowadays.

But buy what you like. They’re drums. You play ‘em!
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 10-02-2018, 01:26 AM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,916
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

I always wanted to play a Kumu drum kit (Finnish company)-one of our forum members had a kit- he posted videos and his recordings and others sound fabulous. I think it doesn't matter where it's made but how it's made.
__________________
"I roll to the tune of a different drummer ;) "
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 10-02-2018, 01:56 AM
lsits's Avatar
lsits lsits is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,109
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Well, I haven't done any A/B comparison, but I heard that there's a sonic difference between a drum shell bade with Mahogany grown in Africa and that grown in Honduras. I would think that the same would go for other types of wood, like Maple and Birch. Aren't there some Yamaha drums made with North American Maple?
__________________
I started with nothing and still have most of it left.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 10-02-2018, 03:10 AM
williamsbclontz williamsbclontz is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: East Texas area
Posts: 539
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsits View Post
Well, I haven't done any A/B comparison, but I heard that there's a sonic difference between a drum shell bade with Mahogany grown in Africa and that grown in Honduras. I would think that the same would go for other types of wood, like Maple and Birch. Aren't there some Yamaha drums made with North American Maple?
You are right. Different species of wood will sound different. So North American maple will sound different than any other maple from anywhere else. That's especially true with mahogany because the different types of mahogany have such different characteristics in density and tone. African mahogany is really hard, and some mahoganies are very soft and aren't used for making instruments. For example, some Yamaha RC kits are made of Malaysian Birch, and some are made of North American Birch, and they will sound different

Also drum manufacturers use different cuts of woods, and they process and manipulate the woods in different ways. So let's say I cut down a maple tree and shipped half of it to Gretsch and half of it to DW. Both companies could make an all maple drum with the same exact bearing edge and hardware and it would still probably sound different

Regardless though of where companies source their wood from today, all of the mainstream drum manufacturers are making incredible sounding drums. Whether it's American or from anywhere else, if you spend top dollar on a high end kit with any major drum brand you'll get a great product
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 10-08-2018, 11:36 PM
SmoothOperator SmoothOperator is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,157
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

In terms of build quality in the musical instrument world I doubt that there is any difference. Really, the technology is the same as it was hundreds of years ago, and in my experience western manufacturers have lost most of their mojo, and have cut many corners in production. They just don't have the labor base. And American workers all drive SUVs which don't contribute to the quality of the product. Though, I feel the Chinese manufacturing is very dirty.

There is an interesting article where the leader of a violin manufacturer was interviewed, and he discussed how they went from producing shoddy replicas, to producing award winning violins.

One interesting aspect, is that some where in that lump of wood and glue the Chinese aesthetic started to be imparted. So while it is not a lesser quality difference the craftsmen are none-the-less imparting their aesthetic based on the erhu(a brash sounding two string fiddle the ancestor of the modern fiddle from the Mongolian steppes ).

I personally think the Chinese cymbals are superior, everyone is hand hammered, and they were doing it from the dawn of time.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:08 AM
AzHeat's Avatar
AzHeat AzHeat is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,481
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
...And American workers all drive SUVs which don't contribute to the quality of the product.
Say what??? I don’t get why the SUV always becomes an argument in everything and how on earth it’s actually an argument. I’ve been in Japan for the past 10 days. One of the observations I’ve made is how many vehicles look like minivans. They have anything from “mini” vans to “maxi” vans and none of them are available in the US. Let’s just say the Toyota Sienna is mid sized and I haven’t seen a single one. The one big difference I see in their cars is 1) hatchbacks and wagons are huge, and 2) most everything has super tiny wheels and tires on them, on par with the original mini coopers. If the wheel wells were widened out to fit larger wheels and tires they would be SUVs. Their roads are incredibly smooth here, so no need for a tire that can traverse the canyon sized potholes we have in the US. Not many V8s, but tons of diesels and hybrids. I suppose this combination makes for better drum manufacturing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
...I personally think the Chinese cymbals are superior, everyone is hand hammered, and they were doing it from the dawn of time.
I can only apply this to Wuhan, but not due to quality. In fact there isn’t any. They are so inconsistent that you can find some real gems accidentally sounding great. They do break very easily though. Their alloy are very brittle. All other cymbals I’ve heard out of China are thick, harsh and just plain crap. But that’s my opinion. Maybe someone out there loves their full set of Agazarians.

On topic, I’ve hit two drum stores here in Tokyo. They have both been about the size of a GC drum room, but with 10x the inventory. As one would expect, they are loaded with Yamaha, Tama, Sakea, and Canopus drums. There’s also a pretty good selection of DW, Ludwig and Gretsch. I’ve been looking very closely at all of them and all are made exceptionally well. Interestingly neither store carried Stage Customs. The lowest line was Maple Custom, with Starclassic as the lowest line. Lots of beautiful Tama Star drums. The only “lower end” drums I saw were PDP Concept series. Lots of very nice cymbals we can’t find in the US, but no Chinese lines, not even Wuhan.

Neither store had anything cheap like we have in the US. What I did notice though...DWs are about the same price in Japan as in the US, but Ludwig and Gretsch are way more. Tama, Yamaha, Canopus, etc. are less, so a great place to but Japanese brands. Not surprised, but in context of this thread, I could buy a Starphonic bell brass snare for the same price as a Gretsch USA Custom maple.

So...is made in the US that much better? I guess it depends on which side of the globe you’re on. They are definitely more cost prohibitive out in the east.

Last edited by AzHeat; 10-09-2018 at 02:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:27 AM
MrInsanePolack's Avatar
MrInsanePolack MrInsanePolack is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Arkansas, USA
Posts: 1,955
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
In terms of build quality in the musical instrument world I doubt that there is any difference. Really, the technology is the same as it was hundreds of years ago, and in my experience western manufacturers have lost most of their mojo, and have cut many corners in production. They just don't have the labor base. And American workers all drive SUVs which don't contribute to the quality of the product.
CNC, multiple axis cutting machines, power tools didn't exist hundreds of years ago. Neither did the knowledge of today.

What corners have been cut? Drum construction has improved significantly in the past 100 years. Let's see a 10,000 lb Hummer park on top of a vintage kit of any make. Ain't gonna happen. Yes I know that was Pearl, but it helps make my point. Bet they wouldn't do it with an Export of old.

The US has the labor base, what we don't have is the work ethic. This is why most production/manufacturing jobs are held by immigrants. To be specific, our unemployment level is the lowest it has been since the 60's, at like 3.5%.

We don't all drive SUV's. The car is still a thing here. And actually, they are getting smaller and more efficient. And what does our vehicle have to do with our products quality anyhow?
__________________
Grease or The Bird, which is it? Someone please tell me, what is the d@mn word?

Last edited by MrInsanePolack; 10-09-2018 at 01:36 AM. Reason: Because I wanted to
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:42 AM
Andy's Avatar
Andy Andy is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 641
Default Re: Is made in the US really that much better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAgrippa View Post
I always wanted to play a Kumu drum kit (Finnish company)-one of our forum members had a kit- he posted videos and his recordings and others sound fabulous. I think it doesn't matter where it's made but how it's made.
Kumu make the best birch ply drums in the world - period - no discussion.
__________________
https://www.firedupband.net
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com